National Anthem Solution

[Augie]

If you don’t think eliminating social injustices is important, that’s YOUR problem. My personal feeling is when you are at work, you follow the rules or you should face the consequences. But nobody cares about my feelings, it all comes down to what’s in writing in the CBA. If there is a loophole that allows this behavior, it‘s up to the NFL and the NFLPA to figure out a solution. It will be used as a bargaining chip for other things, and become less about the actual original message. 

 

 

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Edited May 25, 2018 by Augie

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

I have yet to find anyone in real life, whether it's the people I work with in law enforcement or the countless military friends & family I know, that actually felt they were being disrespected.

The closest I ever heard was one of our Sergeants during briefing make a joke about "entitled" athletes thinking we're all gunning for them, but that's it. Hell, if anything, our department has made sure to really crack down and extensively train everyone in policy and procedure to make sure there aren't any cases of abuse of power or excessive force. And that's not a bad thing, as we all should be held accountable and treat everyone fairly.

On the military side, my wife's friends get more agitated by the people that bring up the "disrespecting our troops!" than anyone kneeling. It's annoying that people decided to take a protest and spin it to directly mean "those guys hate our soldiers!" when none of it had anything to do with the military.

 

Edit: And no, just because I stated this doesn't mean anything about where I stand politically. You don't have to be a liberal or conservative or whatever-the-hell to just state the obvious.

I am prior military, a retired law enforcement officer, and still work within the criminal justice system. I feel kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful in general. It doesn't make me angry, it doesn't upset me, and I fully supprort their right to protest. However, I still feel it is disrespectful.

[CountDorkula]

Solution. Stop playing the anthem at games. 

 

but then the NFL wouldn't get its money and we couldn't have that. 

 

[BruceVilanch]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with you completely that we live in a country that gives citizens the right to stand for, kneel for, or just kind of ignore the playing of our national anthem.  And FTR most of my friends who are vets feel the same - that they fought for our freedoms to disagree with each other and criticize our country.

 

Where the NFL differs is that these players are on the job, on premises their employer has leased, on their employer's time being paid.  And the employer has the right to specify OTJ behavior.  The employee has the right to say "I don't agree with this, I quit"

I agree with you, when an employer mandates something it is the responsibility of the employee to respect the rules and regulations. I just believe the NFL should have left it alone and not added fuel to this situation, 1.5-2.0 minutes of peaceful protest should be the last thing on their mind. They should be addressing larger concerns, the multiple domestic violence cases that pop up every year, the CTE/head trauma issues, there are larger issues that need to be addressed. I believe this mandate will just widen the gap between players and ownership. 

[That_Guy]

33 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

Plus, once players know they will not be shown on camera kneeling there won't be much of an incentive for them to do it. 

Yea.  Remove their soapbox and see how quickly everyone stops caring, if they even ever did.

[BringBackOrton]

The NFL already solved the problem. Stand or else. 

 

Thats it. Open and shut.

[Buffalo86]

If people were kneeling in protest of America's treatment of its veterans, they'd enjoy near universal support.  But racial inequality?  "Get the hell out of my country!"  

[racketmaster]

8 minutes ago, Jeetz1231 said:

For everyone who say's it is disrespectful to the military I think they would be surprised at how many people from the military community feel the exact same way. Not one of my friends I served with is as upset as some of the people who have never served and say it's disrespectful to the military.

I would not be surprised because those serving or having served in the military make up a large group of people that have come from various backgrounds. It would defy logic to think members of the military all thought the same way on an issue that has the rest of the country divided. The 3 people in my family that have served in the military all believe that kneeling is disrespectful but I do believe there are many military members that don't feel the same way. 

 

Personally, I would prefer players stand along with everyone else in the stadium. I understand the point that players have tried to make but I do think it sets a dangerous precedent. The country is very divided in terms of political viewpoints and in many ways always has. But one place we can all stand together is during the anthem. It is an opportunity for us all to come together even if it is just for a moment. This may sound hokey but with the divisiveness in politics it is good to have a common bond and we don't have enough of them. The media covering the anthem protests has lead to kneeling at lower levels of football whether it be youth or high school. NFL players tend to be role models for younger kids. Also, where and when do the protests end? Racial tensions and inequalities are issues that will not end over night and will likely take decades to be solved. Will anthem protests go on for decades? And if so will the anthem no longer become a moment for us all to stand together but rather just another time for us to air our grievances. Now that people have seen how effective the protests have been (having the media spend so much time discussing the issue), what other issues may players feel justified in kneeling? Could there be kneeling for abortion, gay rights, environmental issues? There are endless causes and now that "the cat is out of the bag" there could be kneeling (or another form of protest during the anthem) to bring attention to those particular issues. 

 

Without the owners taking any action, it could be a slippery slope. So, is the new policy perfect? No, but players are still permitted to remain in the locker room if they do not feel comfortable. Nobody is forcing them to stand but they just won't be shown on tv and focused on during the period of the anthem which ultimately becomes a distraction. And for the rest of the people in the stadium we can stand together as a country at least for that brief moment in time. 

 

 

[JohnC]

54 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

Change it to God Save The Queen and respect your roots, you ingrates.

Bloke, I thought I saw you on TV at the Royal Wedding. Were you sitting between Oprah and George Clooney and his lovely wife at the church? I don't want to be judgmental but wearing sweats, cap and sneakers and having your clip board and stop watch with you for your next scouting assignment was a tad gauche for such a solemn ceremony!?

[macaroni]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

The NFL already solved the problem. Stand or else. 

 

Thats it. Open and shut.

 

And exactly what problem DID they solve???

 

BBO, you have been duped by the media into thinking that the protests are the problem ... I propose the problem is NOT the protests, it's what prompted the protests in the first place.

 

One of the "dad sayings" that my kids have grown up with is ... "the problem is never really the problem ... however, how you respond to the problem could be a problem."

 

The players wanted to send a message ... we as a society can receive that message and either strive to change the situation that caused that message to be sent, or disregard the situation because we think the cause isn't worth our trouble. The way I see it we (players/teams/league/fans) should be striving to correct the social injustice ... NOT trying to solve the "protest problem" 

[Epstein's Mother]

26 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The issue is a simple one. No employer would let their employees use their workplace as a place to protest something that is NOT about the workplace. 

 

This is a great point.  I own my own business and I'm always ready to listen to my employees when they have concerns about the workplace.  However, if I had an employee do something in front of the customer that they found distasteful to the point that they no longer wanted to do business with me (as some fans of the NFL have chosen to do) then that's a problem.

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, That_Guy said:

If the NFL cared about losing TV ratings over this, like they claim they are and do, it's an easy fix:

 

At the stadium: Do the anthem as normal and let people sit/stand/kneel if that's what they want

On TV: when the stadium anthem starts, cut to some cheesy b-roll video montage of flags waving gently in the breeze and eagles soaring majestically while an audio recording of the anthem is played over it.

 

Once the issue is out of sight out of mind to the TV viewer the ratings should come back and all is well.

 

Sounds like something North Korea would do 

[Blokestradamus]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Bloke, I thought I saw you on TV at the Royal Wedding. Were you sitting between Oprah and George Clooney and his lovely wife at the church? I don't want to be judgmental but wearing sweats, cap and sneakers and having your clip board and stop watch with you for your next scouting assignment was a tad gauche for such a solemn ceremony!?

 

I gave Amal a 2nd round grade. Meghan got a 1st.

 

Couldn't go upstaging the bride.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Jeetz1231 said:

I know I am probably in the minority, but I am a veteran of the US military and I don't personally feel like the kneeling is disrespectful to the flag or my brothers and sisters who served and are still serving. If anything it shows the freedoms we have in this country as individuals. The protest is for racial injustice when dealing with police, they are using their right to peaceful protest. I personally would prefer that they stood for the anthem, but at the end of the day we live in a country that gives them the right to kneel for the anthem, and that is what makes this country great.

They're at work.  They don't have that right to peacefully protest

 

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

The NFL already solved the problem. Stand or else. 

 

Thats it. Open and shut.

Stand, or else the TEAM gets fined. That solves nothing. The player/instigator has no skin in the game. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Jeetz1231 said:

For everyone who say's it is disrespectful to the military I think they would be surprised at how many people from the military community feel the exact same way. Not one of my friends I served with is as upset as some of the people who have never served and say it's disrespectful to the military.

1 person says half full. 1 person says half empty. Neither has to be right.  Who cares who served when it comes to this. Their rights and opinions are no more noble than anothers

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, That_Guy said:

If the NFL cared about losing TV ratings over this, like they claim they are and do, it's an easy fix:

 

At the stadium: Do the anthem as normal and let people sit/stand/kneel if that's what they want

On TV: when the stadium anthem starts, cut to some cheesy b-roll video montage of flags waving gently in the breeze and eagles soaring majestically while an audio recording of the anthem is played over it.

 

Once the issue is out of sight out of mind to the TV viewer the ratings should come back and all is well.

I have never seen any evidence to suggest the kneeling lowered TV ratings or at-game attendance.

 

I consider it a myth until proven otherwise.

 

Do plenty of racists in this country hate the protests?  Absolutely.  Do they get annoyed by them?  Absolutely.

 

Does it mean they have turned off NFL football?  No.  

 

They're mostly blowhard types to begin with and they don't seem to be principled enough to boycott games based on their beliefs.

 

They're still watching.

 

This whole controversy was fading into oblivion until the NFL put it right back on everyone's radar with the new rule, being the geniuses that they are.

 

 

 

 

 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

They're at work.  They don't have that right to peacefully protest

 

 

I fully agree with that sentiment. It wouldn’t fly at the bank or at your grocery store job, but unfortunately if there is a loophole in the CBA that’s a problem. I’d be fine with sitting (and keeping the game check) of our MVP if it was allowable just to make the point. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

They're at work.  They don't have that right to peacefully protest

 

The players are union members, so they actually do have rights under the collective bargaining agreement, one of which may be to peacefully protest in a way that has no effect on the on-field product.  It’s not “my way or the highway” for the NFL.

[Bray Wyatt]

My opinion on things:

 

1. From what i have seen, the statistics dont really show what the players are protesting about is an actual problem (police shooting unarmed black men was what this whole protest thing was about yes?), but nevertheless if they want to protest it thats their right

 

2. It is also the employers right to tell them not to do this on the job

 

3. How does kneeling for the anthem actually make sense for their form of protest? I never understood that one. When the whole rosa parks thing went down, they boycotted the bus (made sense), when woolworths wouldnt serve black people at their counters, they staged sit-ins (make sense), so when police shoot an unarmed black man, the protest is kneel for the anthem? 

 

4. It is not up for us to say whether it disrespects the troops/police or not, only they can speak for themselves. It is our constitutional right to protest, these people are exercising that right, a right that is being fought for and protected by the troops and police, I can see why it wouldnt upset them. On the other hand, I can see how it would upset some as well. 

 

5. I dont get how people saying kneeling isnt disrespectful. Now, on the scale of disrespect it isnt really that high in my opinion. And to those saying its not disrespectful, then wouldnt that make their protest less impactful? I thin the players would even acknowledge it is disrespectful on some level.

 

I will await people tearing this apart, making assumptions about me etc. But if anyone wants to discuss any of this I am willing to listen