Prickly Pete Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Tyrod Taylor already impressing them in Cleveland. 4
Lfod Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: He's not jumping the gun anymore than any of the people telling us good things about Allen are jumping the gun. If he told us the comparison is over, then yeah, just stupid. Asking the question is reasonable. Same as it was reasonable to ask the question during the draft. It's reasonable to ask a question when you can get a realistic answer. It's like me asking the names of the league sources and what part of the league they are involved in. There is no answer to that. Op wants to speculate on if Beane messed up or not based on a tiny shred of good news of Rosen that doesn't come with links or anything official from the Cardinals themselves. It has the look of chomping at the bits for Beane to be wrong. He ask it in an innocent way but I always read between the lines. It has no reasonable answer because all the answers will be speculation. Why does one guy saying Josh Rosen may start with nothing official on it mean Beane messed up? I think it's a stupid question I stick by that. A lot of assumtion in that question. You can ask about Rosen based off next to nothing without calling Beans credibility into question. There will be a time and place that a question like that can be answered. It's not today. I don't know if Beane messed up. I sure hope not but I'm not sweating Rosen being good or not. All that matters is Josh Allen. At the very least if you want to be taken seriously come with a little more substance then mysterious sources of one media personality and link the clip. What team is going to come out and say thier first round trash pick is trash. I'm probably only going to see good things said about every rookie QB and it doesn't mean Beane messed up. When Josh Allen bust then Beane messed up. That's the answer. Until that happens then there is only potential outcomes. Edited May 25, 2018 by Lfod 1
Thurman#1 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Lfod said: It's reasonable to ask a question when you can get a realistic answer. It's like me asking the names of the league sources and what part of the league they are involved in. There is no answer to that. Op wants to speculate on if Beane messed up or not based on a tiny shred of good news of Rosen that doesn't come with links or anything official from the Cardinals themselves. It has the look of chomping at the bits for Beane to be wrong. He ask it in an innocent way but I always read between the lines. It has no reasonable answer because all the answers will be speculation. Why does one guy saying Josh Rosen may start with nothing official on it mean Beane messed up? I think it's a stupid question I stick by that. A lot of assumtion in that question. You can ask about Rosen based off next to nothing without calling Beans credibility into question. There will be a time and place that a question like that can be answered. It's not today. I don't know if Beane messed up. I sure hope not but I'm not sweating Rosen being good or not. All that matters is Josh Allen. At the very least if you want to be taken seriously come with a little more substance then mysterious sources of one media personality and link the clip. What team is going to come out and say thier first round trash pick is trash. I'm probably only going to see good things said about every rookie QB and it doesn't mean Beane messed up. When Josh Allen bust then Beane messed up. That's the answer. Until that happens then there is only potential outcomes. It's reasonable to ask a question in a situation when you can ask a reasonable question. Plenty on here are asking whether Allen will be good. No reasonable answer possible yet. But people are asking, and for good reason. OP isn't expecting a final answer on whether they messed up. He's raising a reasonable question. People here tend to ask plenty of positive questions and speculate positively all the time. No problem. No angry responses. But if it's a negative question suddenly everybody's furious. It's like the fury at the press when there's a negative article about the Bills and the crickets about them when the article is positive. Same thing with anonymous sources. If they're positive they're believed. If they're negative, Bills fans suddenly refuse to deal with anonymous sources. **** I do of course agree that it's too early for any surety whatsoever on any of this. It's like those people who call bust after three games. But when it's out there, why not talk about it. If it had been positive, nobody would have raised an eyebrow. Edited May 25, 2018 by Thurman#1
DefenseWins Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 I just wanna reiterate what I said several times before the NFL Draft. I believe that all 4 of the top rated QB's in this most recent draft will have good careers. (barring injury of course) These are 4 up and coming players who had solid college careers. They are all obviously talented QB's. It should be interesting to follow their respective careers as the future unfolds. Hopefully, Rosen can avoid future concussions. 1
Magox Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: OP isn't expecting a final answer on whether they messed up. He's raising a reasonable question. No he's not raising a reasonable question because his posting history regarding this issue points to a crusading motive. And even if the question was posed by someone else without the same history as the OP it would still be an absurd question at this stage of the game. First of all, Allen has also been very impressive from the limited accounts from journalists and coaches. Secondly and most importantly we are in the month of freaking May, the guys haven't even put on pads yet and this ludicrous question of remorse is being posed. Absurd and only someone with an agenda would pose this question as this point. 1
oldmanfan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 It's an absurd question because there's no answer. Call it a rhetorical question if you want but to ask it after one OTA is ridiculous and only meant to push an agenda.
eball Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Only concussions can stop Rosen being a good Quarterback in this league in my opinion. I think he will start in Arizona and I think he will be rookie of the year. That said, as others have pointed out, you don't take Allen for him to be better week 1 or even year 1. You take him hoping in 4 years time he reaches that potentially sky high ceiling. I know you put a great deal of time into your QB evaluations and I respect that, but wow. If the Bills drafted Josh Allen at #7 hoping he'll be good for the 2021 season there's something wrong. 1
CSBill Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 14 hours ago, Klaista2k said: I was listening to Colin Cowherd and he said according to league sources Rosen is already blowing everyone away. According to the source Rosen "looked incredible" and is already a virtual lock to be starting week 1. Did we mess this up? No, give it up
BB@Shooter Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 14 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Wasn't Brady scrawny coming out of college too? So now Rosen will be Brady because he is scrawny? That is a big reach. That is like saying wasn't Big Ben tall coming out of college? It has nothing to do with it.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 omg he looks amazing in no pads and no contact.... Way to screw up another one Buffalo!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I know you put a great deal of time into your QB evaluations and I respect that, but wow. If the Bills drafted Josh Allen at #7 hoping he'll be good for the 2021 season there's something wrong. There's no way the Bills did that. The best case scenario is that they spent a lot of time looking at film and decided that a number of what look like poor decisions, were actually on the WR or RB and that what looks to me (and others) like inaccuracy we can't figure out a mechanical basis for is actually something they can address in a straightforward way so that he can start in 2019 and perform well.
Magox Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I know you put a great deal of time into your QB evaluations and I respect that, but wow. If the Bills drafted Josh Allen at #7 hoping he'll be good for the 2021 season there's something wrong. Not that Gunner's arbitrary timeline is of any significance (no offense Gunner, it's just an opinion), even if you were to take his words at face value that doesn't preclude the possibility of being a high end QB before 4 years. I think it is fair to assume that if Allen were to have a successful career that it would take at least 4 years to fully realize his potential. Not many QB's that I can think of hit the pinnacle of their careers in the first 2 years to sustain it for a decade plus. 1
JohnC Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I know you put a great deal of time into your QB evaluations and I respect that, but wow. If the Bills drafted Josh Allen at #7 hoping he'll be good for the 2021 season there's something wrong. You can be a good qb sooner but still have not reached your full potential until another year or two. That was the consensus evaluation for the bigger and brawnier Josh. It was also the consensus view that Josh Rosen was the most pro ready qb in this draft class. Although jumping to a conclusion over the first OTA is an overreaction. I believe all the top four qb prospects in this draft class are going to turn out to be franchise qbs. For a number of reasons beyond the ability to play, such as durability and personality. Allen was a good fit for the Bills. I'm ecstatic with his selection. However, a more interesting question might be whether the Bills would have selected Darnold over Allen if they were in position to do so?
BobChalmers Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Rosen's specific question mark was all about his durability (and maybe likability). So unless his defensive line is allowed to hit him in practice, there's nothing to learn yet. Bradford, who he's behind, will also look like a top 5 QB - until he breaks. Edited May 25, 2018 by BobChalmers
Infinitum Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 15 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Did we mess this up? It's the Bills, so most likely yeah.
13player Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 15 hours ago, Klaista2k said: I was listening to Colin Cowherd and he said according to league sources Rosen is already blowing everyone away. According to the source Rosen "looked incredible" and is already a virtual lock to be starting week 1. Did we mess this up? Ask me this question after he gets hit, the career ending concussion is just around the corner, this guy has a glass jaw.
GunnerBill Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, eball said: I know you put a great deal of time into your QB evaluations and I respect that, but wow. If the Bills drafted Josh Allen at #7 hoping he'll be good for the 2021 season there's something wrong. That wasn't quite what I meant. I think they are hoping he will be good before then.... but the point I was trying to make is if the Bills priority was drafting a guy who helps them to win in 2018 and 2019 then Josh Rosen gives you a better chance. When you take someone like Allen you are taking him and saying that it might take him a couple of seasons to close that gap bit by bit but by the end of their rookie deals you are sitting with the better Quarterback. That is because there is a school of thought, not one I go alomg with I might add, that Josh Rosen won't get that much better and is already pretty fully developed.
eball Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That wasn't quite what I meant. I think they are hoping he will be good before then.... but the point I was trying to make is if the Bills priority was drafting a guy who helps them to win in 2018 and 2019 then Josh Rosen gives you a better chance. When you take someone like Allen you are taking him and saying that it might take him a couple of seasons to close that gap bit by bit but by the end of their rookie deals you are sitting with the better Quarterback. That is because there is a school of thought, not one I go alomg with I might add, that Josh Rosen won't get that much better and is already pretty fully developed. Understood. I still think we're going to find that the "issues" people like yourself saw when watching Allen on tape were more a function of a guy trying to do everything than of a guy who doesn't understand and process the game correctly. Even his comments after a single OTA session speak to this -- saying things like "everyone needs to do the right thing" and "it's my job to get the ball to the playmakers." He didn't have playmakers at Wyoming (particularly after Gentry graduated following the 2016 season) and clearly didn't have receivers "doing the right thing." He also didn't have an OC putting in "easy" plays for the offense.
Recommended Posts