Stadium Construction Facts & Figures

[LabattBlue]

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

UB could sure use a new barn.  Syracuse is getting state money to fix up their stadium, and they're a private school.

The UB stadium was a mistake for football since day 1.  Having the track around it(built for the world university games) caused the fans to be too far away from the field.  Then they built that ridiculous end zone seating which made an ugly stadium, even worse

57 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Yes and it would drive many away since tailgating would go away.

I’d bet it is a very very small minority that would stop going to the games if a stadium was built downtown.   

[atlbillsfan1975]

Great article and breakdown. Assuming everything is correct A new stadium seems more plausible. 

I was amazed how barren the area was around 716 Hotel we stayed at for the Saints Bills game. That looks like a prime area to develop. 

 

What the Braves have done is to try and build an experience around the stadium for fans to enjoy before and after games. The biggest knock for the longest time was where the old Turner Field and Fulton County stadiums were located had zero fan options outside the stadium. In fact the area was/is one of the lower income and higher crime rates in the city. 

[purple haze]

On 5/25/2018 at 6:36 AM, zonabb said:

 

Good piece. I've worked in development and upper level govt in this region and have friends who were heavily involved in some recent stadium construction jobs. The issue that is mentioned in passing but I think critically important as it relates to cost is infrastructure. This is what drives total stadium costs sneakily up. And it's why the most cost-effective new stadium location is across the street from the current stadium. The infrastructure costs alone in downtown Buffalo would be enormous. The City's sewer and water system is antiquated and has limited capacity to add a stadium to. Those two systems alone would cost tens of millions if not over $100m to not just install on site but improve and upgrade capacity off site. More costly would be necessary improvements to the existing transportation system. Right now there is not a spot downtown that can handle the auto traffic, both the roadway and signal systems but the parking availability. We're talking improving interchanges and the existing street network... hundreds of millions. 

 

Then there is the costs no one is talking about downtown.... property acquisition. Yes the Pegulas have money, but I've looked at the sites people have talked about and proposed, including those coming out of the stadium working group a few years back. We're talking many, many parcels needed. Each with different owners. So the Pegulas can try to buy them all up using shell LLCs to shield the fact the purchases are for a stadium, hoping to keep the prices down. But that won't last long, one person doing homework on LLCs can connect the dots and expose the intent, driving up costs. Then there's the potential for hold out owners, possibly requiring the use of eminent domain, which the Pegulas can't use they'd need city to do it. That's a tough sell for the city to likely be asked to absorb costs for the new stadium and take people's property for it. The potential legal fight over eminent domain could push the construction off years.

 

So alone the non-stadium costs for a downtown stadium already put it 100s of millions above building across the street from the Ralph. With money hard to come buy, a cheaper solution rather than a geographic solution is likely. Unless a similar site elsewhere shows up where limited new infrastructure upgrades are needed, I can't see a new stadium anywhere but on Abbott. 

 

The water table isn't an issue. The foundations/piles for existing downtown buildings prove that the water table issue is non-existent. In fact, most major world cities are built on the water....NYC, London, Tokyo, Dubai...   Engineering solves that problem and the seasonally high water table in Orchard Park is only a few feet below surface. Basically the subsurface design of the Ralph is a concrete bowl keeping water out and then supplemented with site graded draining and likely some collection and pump system. 

 

 

 

Everything you  listed about what would be required for building downtown is exactly why it needs to happen.

 

Buffalo, as a city, needs improved infrastructure, roadways and a real subway system.  Time to modernize the city.  This would be the city thinking with vision and not focusing solely on the now.   The stadium would just be the impetus and ultimately a byproduct.

 

I always felt building the new stadium downtown was best for the simple fact that the ancillary necessities would have to be addressed and, in the process, produce a better city.   Could improved roads, infrastructure and transportation system make Buffalo more attractive to corporations looking to create more office hubs/ headquarters etc?  It would give the city/state a modern city to sell.  As it is said it takes money to make money.

Edited May 28, 2018 by purple haze

[Just Joshin']

6 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Everything you  listed about what would be required for building downtown is exactly why it needs to happen.

 

Buffalo, as a city, needs improved infrastructure, roadways and a real subway system.  Time to modernize the city.  This would be the city thinking with vision and not focusing solely on the now.   The stadium would just be the impetus and ultimately a byproduct.

 

I always felt building the new stadium downtown was best for the simple fact that the ancillary necessities would have to be addressed and, in the process, produce a better city.   Could improved roads, infrastructure and transportation system make Buffalo more attractive to corporations looking to create more office hubs/ headquarters etc?  It would give the city/state a modern city to sell.  As it is said it takes money to make money.

Assuming this is true this alone will not lure new HQs to Buffalo.  The tax policy of NYS makes it difficult to compete with low tax states.  Just a fact the improved infrastructure will not address.

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

UB could sure use a new barn.  Syracuse is getting state money to fix up their stadium, and they're a private school.

  College stadiums are a little different game as the university can work the alumni angle to access key political connections.  The Bills most likely has far less in the way of connections to Albany politicians.  Also, SU has the media school and certain alums which could be used to make certain politicians uncomfortable.  Get back to me when St Bonnie or some other school with a high profile sports program walks away with 100's of millions of dollars just for asking.

[jimmy10]

On 5/24/2018 at 12:10 PM, BillsfanAZ said:

I like going back to Buffalo and going to Bills games. The only issue I have with the stadium is how narrow the concourses are. It is a nightmare to navigate the beer line mixing with the bathroom lines. 

 

This is very true. Our tickets are in section 127, so we walk straight into the tunnel end of the stadium, straight to our seats, and rarely have to navigate the concourses. The few times I've walked around the concourses during a game... yikes.

 

Never mind claustrophobia, it seems to me like a safety issue. If there was a fire or some other kind of emergency, people would almost certainly get trampled to death.  

 

I do love the Ralph, but it needs to be modernized. New stadium or renovated Ralph, I'm honestly OK with either one. The only thing that would upset me is drastically higher ticket prices and/or PSLs. 

[purple haze]

19 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Assuming this is true this alone will not lure new HQs to Buffalo.  The tax policy of NYS makes it difficult to compete with low tax states.  Just a fact the improved infrastructure will not address.

True enough.  But it would make Buffalo competitive, as a city, with other modern cities.  It's a start.  At this point Buff is behind other locales on many levels.  A lot of those can be addressed by making the city a city.  The tax issue is a different can of worms.

 

 Even if the tax issue is never addressed, the modernization of the city is still a plus for residents/visitors.  In that case, I don't see a reason not to do it.  But if it doesn't come as a result of the stadium being built I don't know if will happen.

Edited May 28, 2018 by purple haze

[SoCal Deek]

I've said it many times over. The least costly option is to build a new concourse building on each side of New Era, behind the upper deck. These Additions would really be nothing more than two story 'office' buildings, except they'd be filled with concessions, restrooms and other support services. Since New Era's lower bowl is actually built into the ground these two buildings wouldn't need to be very tall ...and could, if money allows include a cantilevered roof structure to cover the sideline seating. (quite common in European soccer stadiums).  This 'plan' saves on the infrastructure costs, , new seating bowl, new parking, etc. and might be able to be constructed while the existing stadium is in use. At least one Bills season would be greatly impacted, but it could be done if properly sequenced.

[KollegeStudnet]

Great read. I’ve always been pro at keeping New Era Field as the home. However, if a new stadium must be built, I say yes.

 

Love the Ralph, but in the long run spending the same amount as building a new stadium just to renovate a 50 year old building. 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Great article and breakdown. Assuming everything is correct A new stadium seems more plausible. 

I was amazed how barren the area was around 716 Hotel we stayed at for the Saints Bills game. That looks like a prime area to develop. 

 

What the Braves have done is to try and build an experience around the stadium for fans to enjoy before and after games. The biggest knock for the longest time was where the old Turner Field and Fulton County stadiums were located had zero fan options outside the stadium. In fact the area was/is one of the lower income and higher crime rates in the city. 

 

I’m less than 3 miles from The Battery/Suntrust Park/Braves stadium. I have never once been inconvenienced by traffic, and I see people showing up hours early and leaving hours after games. There’s so much to see and do it becomes part of the experience (and spreads out traffic). The best part? There is a ton of cool stuff nearby and about 280 days a year there is no game. I love that addition to Atlanta. You might love tail gating (as I do), but you’d love this too. Well done! 

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I’d bet it is a very very small minority that would stop going to the games if a stadium was built downtown.   

I am sure you would for from posts you want a stadium built downtown.

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m less than 3 miles from The Battery/Suntrust Park/Braves stadium. I have never once been inconvenienced by traffic, and I see people showing up hours early and leaving hours after games. There’s so much to see and do it becomes part of the experience (and spreads out traffic). The best part? There is a ton of cool stuff nearby and about 280 days a year there is no game. I love that addition to Atlanta. You might love tail gating (as I do), but you’d love this too. Well done! 

I hear ya. I live down in Inman Park and have been to one game so far. The Braves did it right. I am glad they didn’t give Into the politicians in Atlanta. 

 

The Bills need to figure out what area and what will work best for the fans. Ultimately that’s who the stadium is for. 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I hear ya. I live down in Inman Park and have been to one game so far. The Braves did it right. I am glad they didn’t give Into the politicians in Atlanta. 

 

The Bills need to figure out what area and what will work best for the fans. Ultimately that’s who the stadium is for. 

 

I’m fully convinced the new Braves stadium made Atlanta a better place to be. I pray that if anything changes with the Bills stadium, it has a similar affect. 

[ghostwriter]

If we do build a new stadium I hope we build the cheapest one possible while still getting the job done.

[Nitro]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:37 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...look where these $1-$2+ billion dollar mausoleums are built, in MAJOR markets with huge corporate presence...... ...Niners was $1.3 billion...Rams started at $2.6 billion........Cowgirls was $1.3 billion...check out the PSL's and ticket prices......astronomical..... I would not consider Indianapolis to be a major metro market, so the Colts was $720 mil or $808 million 2016 dollars, far more reasonable and conducive to economy of scale....our 20 person suite at "The Hat" would be three times as much in any of the major markets...we'd be out in a nanosecond at that number....downtown location would not work IMO due to the necessary infrastructure improvements needed, especially transportation....if the Feds had to get involved with funding, stadium may be ready by 2041.....moving quickly is not in their vocabulary....

I live in Indy.  By building the stadium next to the convention center they use it year around.  Keeping the stadium in OP is an economic loss.  Downtown would become a bigger entertainment and visitor magnet with a stadium/convention center project.  Buffalo moves glacially slow on this issue. Indy they decided a new stadium was needed and the convention center expanded.  It took two years to get funding and plan it. Then three years to build anate d have it open in 2008.  And people in WNY still debate a new or refurbished stadium.