Lfod Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, That's No Moon said: That about sums it up. Well done. Edited May 26, 2018 by Lfod
RocCityRoller Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, QBorBust2018 said: Still can’t believe we passed on JuJu for this bum. Makes no sense. Don't go down that rabbit hole, it hurts really bad. I wanted to take some time on commenting about Zay Jones' rookie year and off season. On the negative side: - I am legitimately concerned about how Zay Jones has handled this off-season. Needed 2 surgeries, not a good sign, and waited till the end of May for a leg issue. I do wonder why he waited so long, but the multiple surgery requirements thing makes some sense I suppose. Hard to use crutches on a torn labrum and recovery from that surgery - The LA situation was terrible. - His target to catch ratio was terrible in his rookie season, even his mom teased him on social media. - Prior to LA, Buffalo was making Zay one of the young faces of the team in promotional material, he ruined that On the optimist side: I've also been watching pro football long enough to know many excellent WRs need a season or two to catch up to the pro game. Most WRs break out in season 2 or 3. - The OBJ/ Deandre Hopkins of the world and the faster pace of everything makes people less patient, but the normalized statistical model for a WR is a breakout in yr 2 or 3. - Jones did play through a torn labrum all year and did not complain or use it as an excuse, even when he was getting mocked in social media and among fans - took a terrible and awkward hit to the knee in the Jets game and kept playing through the game and season. I thought he was done for the season after that hit but kept playing through the season. He has moxy and will play through pain, gotta give a guy credit for that - He had the 2nd most uncatchable targets last year. PFF (not perfect but a measuring stick) almost half (46%) of his 'targets' were uncatchable. He never called out the QB or the offensive scheme. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNPVC1AUEAAO8q8.jpg (the #1 was John Brown (AZ), who also had a terrible year after multiple productive seasons) I think fans who have watched the pro game for 10 or more years know WRs need a year or two to flourish.This isn't a Madden video game where you plug and play guys. Sometimes patience is needed. The fact 40% of his 'targets' were garbage, and he still managed to get a hand on many of them shows range. Add in that he did that with a torn labrum and then knee issue shows me something. I hope Zay Jones uses his rookie season and this horrible off-season to get his head on streight. He needs to know he is in the public spotlight now as a professional athlete and handle his business professionally. I can't crucify a 20 something person for partying a little too hard. Many of us have been there and are not famous, or did so before the omipresence of social media (thank god). He has a supportive family of other professional athletes (dad, brother) to help. I also think a switch of scheme and better QB play will help. I no longer think Jones can be a #1, but I do think he can be a very productive #2 or slot WR. I hope he does, and that the organization and fans give him a chance to grow into the role. Edited May 26, 2018 by RocCityRoller 2 1
row_33 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 19 hours ago, JackKemp said: Not saying Zay hasn't been disappointing, but I still believe the QB is key to a WR becoming good to great. The next 2 WR's selected were JuJu Smith-Schuster and Cooper Kupp at #62 & #69, respectively. Zay Jones (2017): 27 rec. for 317 yds & 2 TD's Juju Smith-Schuster (2017): 58 rec. for 917 yds & 7 TD's Cooper Kupp (2017): 62 rec. for 869 yds. & 5 TD's You cannot tell me that Tyrod was as good a QB as Ben Rothlisberger and Jared Goff in the passing game. The talent of our WRs would need to be al universe to be able to match the better WRs in the league with Tyrod holding the ball and then running and refusing to throw slants. A wise combo of stats and eye test are required to get the real picture. Can’t tell the stats people though....
cd1 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Thing is... Nobody faults Jones for passes over his head or in the stands (aka Taylor). Unfortunately, we all witnessed way too many incidences where the ball went through his hands or bounced off his body, etc. NFL WRs are paid to catch balls that get within arms reach. The ones that can't catch the balls are called "fans". If it walks like a Hardy and talks like a Hardy, most of us start getting very suspicious (especially us old timers who don't have many more years to waste ) Edited May 26, 2018 by cd1
Nanker Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 Hope they didn’t nick his spleen while they were scoping his knee.
row_33 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nanker said: Hope they didn’t nick his spleen while they were scoping his knee. It was supposed to be a circumlocution, oops
starrymessenger Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 No doubt JuJu and Kupp, operating in a more receiver friendly offence, outperformed Zay last year. And true they were drafted later. But Corey Davis and Mike Williams were both drafted way before and they pretty much struggled as well. I would still take Davis and Williams ahead of Kupp (and Zay) every day and twice on Sunday. So hopefully Zay too falls into that group of young receivers who take a while to acclimate. JuJu's case is different IMO. I had him figured for a stud at the next level and I think that's been confirmed. Wish we had landed him but kudos to the Steelers who clearly know wide receivers.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 31, 2018 Author Posted May 31, 2018 2018 NFL season: One key homegrown player for each AFC team Buffalo Bills: Zay Jones, Wide Receiver Jones' jagged rookie campaign has been trumped by a rockier offseason. Last year's No. 37 overall pick incurred a felony vandalism charge, which was later dropped, sandwiched between shoulder surgery and a knee surgery that will keep him off the field during OTAs. This is usually the part of a fledging player's career where he gets buried on the depth chart and needs to earn his spot back on the field after getting 791 snaps on rookie scholarship. But the Bills need Jones to play because their wideout depth chart might be the NFL's worst. Once he's healthy, the East Carolina product will need to cut down on his drops and do a better job coming up with contested catches, two factors in why he finished with the NFL's second-lowest "catch percentage" in 2017 for anyone with more than 50 targets, per PFF.
Gugny Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Do we know why this surgery didn't happen until late May? Did he hurt it fighting for Jesus, or was it something that happened last season?
BillnutinHouston Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 7:42 AM, ALF said: I have confidence in Zay in the long run when healthy. I fully concur. Zay will be fine. 1
BillsFan692 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 On 5/26/2018 at 10:31 AM, starrymessenger said: No doubt JuJu and Kupp, operating in a more receiver friendly offence, outperformed Zay last year. And true they were drafted later. But Corey Davis and Mike Williams were both drafted way before and they pretty much struggled as well. I would still take Davis and Williams ahead of Kupp (and Zay) every day and twice on Sunday. So hopefully Zay too falls into that group of young receivers who take a while to acclimate. JuJu's case is different IMO. I had him figured for a stud at the next level and I think that's been confirmed. Wish we had landed him but kudos to the Steelers who clearly know wide receivers. Really? The most obvious reason why WRs are so successful in Pittsburgh isn't there uncanny drafting ability -- it's the fact that they have BEN ROETHLISBERGER. I'm not even sure how you can compare it to a Tyrod Taylor led offense? Thats the biggest difference, in my mind. You don't think if Zay Jones was drafted by Pitt he would have had a better season?:P Not saying he's better than JuJu, but I know for sure he would have had a much better statistical season with Big Ben and that high flying offense. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Gugny said: Do we know why this surgery didn't happen until late May? Did he hurt it fighting for Jesus, or was it something that happened last season? Answered up-thread. Speculation is it was torn meniscus from the Jets game, but they had to do the shoulder surgery first because, longer recovery time, then wait until he recovered enough to use crutches to do the knee 2
Gugny Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Answered up-thread. Speculation is it was torn meniscus from the Jets game, but they had to do the shoulder surgery first because, longer recovery time, then wait until he recovered enough to use crutches to do the knee Thanks, Hap. I'm calling BS on this one (not that this is how it was reported; I just think it's untrue).
YoloinOhio Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 41 minutes ago, Gugny said: Do we know why this surgery didn't happen until late May? Did he hurt it fighting for Jesus, or was it something that happened last season? He had to have the shoulder surgery first because that required longer recovery time than the knee surgery
Gugny Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Just now, YoloinOhio said: He had to have the shoulder surgery first because that required longer recovery time than the knee surgery Are you trying to say that I couldn't read what Hap wrote? Reported. 1
YoloinOhio Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: Thanks, Hap. I'm calling BS on this one (not that this is how it was reported; I just think it's untrue). Sorry didn’t see it was already answered. It actually wasn’t reported that way. It’s just looking at the surgeries he needed, the knee had to come 2nd. The recovery time of the shoulder impacted when he could have the knee done. 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: Are you trying to say that I couldn't read what Hap wrote? Reported. Dr. yolo is just trying to juggle answering medical questions in between my high level business meetings Edited June 14, 2018 by YoloinOhio 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Gugny said: Thanks, Hap. I'm calling BS on this one (not that this is how it was reported; I just think it's untrue). Nothing reported from the Bills or Zay Jones addressing this. If the SS Buffalobills were a ship, McBeane seem determined loose lips won't be the cause of a sinking. So it's speculation, but it's pretty informed speculation. One source is "Banged Up Bills", a blog written by a guy with a doctorate in Physical Therapy. Here's his article about it. (He also tweets as @bangedupbills and works with Dr David Chao, the orthopedic surgeon and former team doc who assesses injuries online) You're welcome to think whatcha like, me, I'll kinda go with "expert speculation" though, especially when it makes logical sense. A lot of meniscal tears heal up with a couple months rest and PT. Some don't, and then if you plan to use that joint any time soon ya better fix it.
Gugny Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Nothing reported from the Bills or Zay Jones addressing this. If the SS Buffalobills were a ship, McBeane seem determined loose lips won't be the cause of a sinking. So it's speculation, but it's pretty informed speculation. One source is "Banged Up Bills", a blog written by a guy with a doctorate in Physical Therapy. Here's his article about it. (He also tweets as @bangedupbills and works with Dr David Chao, the orthopedic surgeon and former team doc who assesses injuries online) You're welcome to think whatcha like, me, I'll kinda go with "expert speculation" though, especially when it makes logical sense. A lot of meniscal tears heal up with a couple months rest and PT. Some don't, and then if you plan to use that joint any time soon ya better fix it. Normally, I'd have no reason to not believe/subscribe to those theories/reasons for the timing of the surgery. But we talkin' 'bout Zay.
starrymessenger Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said: Really? The most obvious reason why WRs are so successful in Pittsburgh isn't there uncanny drafting ability -- it's the fact that they have BEN ROETHLISBERGER. I'm not even sure how you can compare it to a Tyrod Taylor led offense? Thats the biggest difference, in my mind. You don't think if Zay Jones was drafted by Pitt he would have had a better season?:P Not saying he's better than JuJu, but I know for sure he would have had a much better statistical season with Big Ben and that high flying offense. Well idk if I'd call it uncanny but there's no doubt that the Steelers draft WRs well - and better I would venture than the Bills have. Off the top I can think of only one guy of recent memory who probably flat out disappointed - Limas Sweed. Of course having a HOF calibre QB allows them to get the most out of their WR picks, and I agree that Bills receivers have been at a disadvantage for the most part with Tyrod who, except for the occasional long ball never struck me as throwing a receiver friendly ball. This was especially the case when Tyrod was asked to execute in an offence that did not suit him, like last year, which was also Zay's rookie year.
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