KD in CA Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, john wawrow said: yes. the pegulas are spanos. it's exactly the same situation. they're packing it all up and moving everything. the bills. sabres. harborcenter. even going to confiscate the sod they put down at canalside and take that with them. smh jw I hope they move everything to Santa Rosa!
Delete This Account Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) So i don't have to repeat myself, please see thoughts expressed on twitter Thread links: https://twitter.com/john_wawrow/status/999393053688418304 https://twitter.com/john_wawrow/status/999397458441658369 jw 3 minutes ago, KD in CA said: I hope they move everything to Santa Rosa! Firebaugh, I hear. jw Edited May 23, 2018 by john wawrow 2
John from Riverside Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, john wawrow said: So i don't have to repeat myself, please see thoughts expressed on twitter Thread link: https://twitter.com/john_wawrow/status/999393053688418304 jw Thanks John 1
Peter Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Dolphins renovated their stadium (I have season tickets to the Miami Hurricanes who also play there). The renovations cost about $425 million and it is like going to a new stadium. I hate to say it, but the Dolphins did a very nice job. I think others who are members here have been to the stadium after it was renovated and also were impressed. Perhaps a renovation would work. I wish the stadium were downtown, but I think Kim is correct in that the market does not support higher ticket prices and people do not want to pay for PSLs. Interesting Personal Side Note re My (former) Season Tickets and Horrible Re-Sale Market Last Year I actually was a long time season ticket holder with great seats but ended up giving up my season tickets because I lost money on the re-sale market. My goal always had been to at least break even on the games I could not go to as an out-of-town season ticket holder. Last year was the worst year for the re-sale market. I could not sell the home opener against the Jets at all even though my seats were in the lower bowl on the 45 yard line and I had lowered the price to the lowest I could on the NFL ticket exchange. As you guys also know, the Colts game was going for $6 a ticket. That is crazy. On top of all that, I noticed that they inserted in the agreement that I would indemnify the Bills and the NFL for any damages caused by people using my tickets. I thought that was overreaching given that I use the NFL Ticket Exchange - a platform through which the Bills and NFL share in the selling price and I have no control over who buys the tickets.
John from Riverside Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Peter said: I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Dolphins renovated their stadium (I have season tickets to the Miami Hurricanes who also play there). The renovations cost about $425 million and it is like going to a new stadium. I hate to say it, but the Dolphins did a very nice job. I think others who are members here have been to the stadium after it was renovated and also were impressed. Perhaps a renovation would work. I wish the stadium were downtown, but I think Kim is correct in that the market does not support higher ticket prices and people do not want to pay for PSLs. Interesting Personal Side Note re My (former) Season Tickets and Horrible Re-Sale Market Last Year I actually was a long time season ticket holder with great seats but ended up giving up my season tickets because I lost money on the re-sale market. My goal always had been to at least break even on the games I could not go to as an out-of-town season ticket holder. Last year was the worst year for the re-sale market. I could not sell the home opener against the Jets at all even though my seats were in the lower bowl on the 45 yard line and I had lowered the price to the lowest I could on the NFL ticket exchange. As you guys also know, the Colts game was going for $6 a ticket. That is crazy. On top of all that, I noticed that they inserted in the agreement that I would indemnify the Bills and the NFL for any damages caused by people using my tickets. I thought that was overreaching given that I use the NFL Ticket Exchange - a platform through which the Bills and NFL share in the selling price and I have no control over who buys the tickets. I dont understand the whole "new stadium" thing anyway Most fans dont want it and are happy that the team is not in Canada if I am reading everything correctly. 2
Peter Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, john wawrow said: yes. the pegulas are spanos. it's exactly the same situation. they're packing it all up and moving everything. the bills. sabres. harborcenter. even going to confiscate the sod they put down at canalside and take that with them. smh jw I agree John. There is no way the Pegulas are ever moving the team. I forever will be grateful that they purchased the Bills and Sabres and I will never have to worry about that again. 4 2
3rdand12 Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: He's busy getting his MS-13 face tattoos awesome !!!!
keepthefaith Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, sullim4 said: I suspect this is a set up for a renovation of the existing facility, which in my mind would be welcome news. It's the fiscally responsible decision and it avoids a lot of the nastiness with PSLs and excessively priced luxury suites. Some of the stuff could be simple things like eliminating the bench-style seating in the upper deck with bucket seats, to the more complex like gutting the non-club 200 level seating and replacing it with a standing-room concourse, a restaurant or pub for season ticket holders, or something similar. If we're lucky, we may actually get a heated grass field a la Lambeau to replace the questionable turf that we have. I could see Erie County kicking in money for something like that. I think the Pegulas are smart enough to realize that new luxury boxes aren't going to extract the most money out of the Bills and Sabres… the franchises' biggest asset is the unique fanbase and the way you extract money from these kinds of people is very different from the typical luxury box owner. Merchandise sales, "unique" experiences with players, keeping the existing tailgating atmosphere (without going too crazy), and low season ticket churn will extract more money over the long term than paying for a new stadium and expecting PSLs and higher luxury suite sales rates in return. Lambeau has been renovated recently with a big indoor atrium addition, museum and added seats. It's nice. For a couple hundred million the Ralph could upgraded as well. Might be a good compromise and still provide added revenue and keep the Bills affordable for the fans. The Bills can probably sell a lot more tickets (added seats?) if they can put a winning product on the field. The big stadiums aren't all what they're cracked up to be and you have to fill it with lots of non-football events to justify it. Chicago Bears tickets are very expensive, expensive PSL required for season tickets and parking is $40 and up. That stadium, redone 15 years ago or so is nothing special and it cost $700 million. I'd rather have the Lambeau solution at one-fourth the price. Edited May 23, 2018 by keepthefaith
3rdand12 Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: You poor old sod, you see, it's only me. different type of sod ☺️ But i do see you Aqualung : )
Augie Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 Maybe @Kirby Jackson will copy and paste soon....... Or maybe he wants no part of this? ?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, keepthefaith said: Lambeau has been renovated recently with a big indoor atrium addition, museum and added seats. It's nice. For a couple hundred million the Ralph could upgraded as well. Might be a good compromise and still provide added revenue and keep the Bills affordable for the fans. The Bills can probably sell a lot more tickets (added seats?) if they can put a winning product on the field. The bid stadiums aren't all what they're cracked up to be. Chicago tickets are very expensive, expensive PSL required for season tickets and parking is $40 and up. That stadium, redone 15 years ago or so is nothing special and it cost $700 million. I'd rather have the Lambeau solution at one-fourth the price. ...at the same time, there is a huge economy of scale difference between Buffalo and Chicago......IF you don't get murdered on the way to the game......Bflo has drunks...Chicago has MS-13 et al....... 1 1
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Augie said: Maybe @Kirby Jackson will copy and paste soon....... Or maybe he wants no part of this? ? I’m going to try to stay out of this but it sure sounds EXACTLY like I said it would...LAMP Edited May 23, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 2
ColoradoBills Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, Dalton said: So a bit of math: Stadium cost: $750 Million Down Payment: $160 Millions (20%) Useful life of Stadium: 30 years (very conservative) Interest Rate: 4% Yearly Payments: $42,967,368 # events: 10 Tickets sold/event: 75,000 Cost per ticket: $57/game excluding down payment cost So is the fan base willing to pay and additional $57 per game all other things being equal? I like math and your numbers are spot on for your scenario. Going with a Lucas Oil type stadium. Cost in the early 2020's will be at least a billion with 67,000 seats. That comes to $85.51 extra per seat.
Augie Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m going to try to stay out of this but it sure sounds EXACTLY like I said it would...LAMP I thought she handled Phase One deftly.
sullim4 Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 … and with the NFL having trouble filling up new stadiums (the 49ers stick out in my mind, but there are others), why invest a crap ton of money in the stadium? It's not paying off for many teams outside of the teams with large markets like the Cowboys. Even the Jets with the NYC market are having issues. And I can't believe anyone is suggesting that they would move the team. That's just not going to happen with these two. You can complain all you want about meddling or boneheaded decisions like hiring Rex or keeping Russ around too long. But they view the Bills and Sabres just like we do... for goodness sake they call in to WGR randomly. They won't sell either team of their own accord so long as they're alive. 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: We are a blue collar city though, do we really need a state of the art stadium? I love New Era/Ralph Wilson stadium, it's incredible. Dump money into rennovations, it's fine. EDIT: We need to be fiscally responsible here, IMO. It's not really about the fans, no matter what owners say. Bills have to be able to compete financially and stay viable. I just don't see see how they do that 10 years from now without a new stadium. I'm sure it gets done at the end of the day.
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, corta765 said: That's not true It truthfully depends on the type of stadium. If the Bills do a mix of SEA/PIT/DET/IND its about 400-500 million which won't kill ticket prices. You are correct if they do a Vikings/Falcons type billion dollar project. $500 mil is way too low, even for an open air stadium. Lucas Oil in Indy was $720 mil. Granted it's a dome, which adds roughly $100 mil, but that building was finished 10 years ago. If replicated in Indy today, inflation would bump that number up to around, or more than $800 mil. 1 hour ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: I don't see another outdoor stadium being built. If they do, it'll be a multipurpose domed/retractable roof stadium, designed to attract a Super Bowl, College Bowl games, etc. Crazy talk
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, sullim4 said: … and with the NFL having trouble filling up new stadiums (the 49ers stick out in my mind, but there are others), why invest a crap ton of money in the stadium? It's not paying off for many teams outside of the teams with large markets like the Cowboys. Even the Jets with the NYC market are having issues. And I can't believe anyone is suggesting that they would move the team. That's just not going to happen with these two. You can complain all you want about meddling or boneheaded decisions like hiring Rex or keeping Russ around too long. But they view the Bills and Sabres just like we do... for goodness sake they call in to WGR randomly. They won't sell either team of their own accord so long as they're alive. ...ahhh.... a voice of reason....did you check out the cost of PSL's or tickets at Niners Levi Stadium?.....seriously?......Cowgirls in a MAJOR market command and get exorbitant money primarily from corporate support, not the individual Joe Fan who no longer matters....our 20 person suite at The Hat is $75k plus all of the trimmings....Dallas gets $225-$250K+ for the same......think WNY/Bflo would or could support that escalation?..... 1
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Augie said: I thought she handled Phase One deftly. She certainly has less leverage than other owners in that everyone knows they are married to Buffalo. At the same time she took the natural first step of “don’t look at us to pay for this whole thing.” It will end like these things always do, the state, the team and the fans will share in the cost. 3 1
White Linen Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: It's not really about the fans, no matter what owners say. Bills have to be able to compete financially and stay viable. I just don't see see how they do that 10 years from now without a new stadium. I'm sure it gets done at the end of the day. It's not hard to compete financially when you keep your costs low.
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