Kim Pegula on a New Stadium: "I Don't Even Know If We Can Get There"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Field free to kick in some $$$$ from south Jersey.  Where do you think gov't money comes from?  Me!  No thanks.  I've had a 28% property tax increase the last three years, with 15% forecasted for next year.  Thank You West Seneca

 

You act like that bothers me. It doesn't.

 

Again, like having the Bills local? You'll have to pay.

 

Also, if you're complaining about property taxes to someone who lives in New Jersey, you're not very likely to get any sympathy. Just saying.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by joesixpack

[cba fan]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Do some tech upgrades to the current stadium.  There is nothing wrong with it.

It is funny to see many experts say New Era needs an electrical/electronic over-hall to be viable. And how that will be a hard road to travel.

 

How hard can that be to get done? The place is tiny compared to a mega story high rise and they get that done all the time. It also has a flat spread out layout that new cables etc. could be attached to outside walls encased in protective cover(cement boxing or other) and could be run under upper deck etc etc...….

Edited May 24, 2018 by cba fan

[LabattBlue]

All I want is a domed stadium.  Not a retractable roof, not an attached convention center.  Just a stadium protected from the elements with good sight lines...and maybe a nice attached Bills Hall of Fame.  Free with game ticket...admission charged the remainder of the year.

 

...and give Delaware North the boot from New Era and the KBC, and allow local restaurants to operate stands in place of the overpriced and crappy food stands that currently exist.  I really don't know why this can't happen?

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

Can't imagine what they could get for PSL's in Buffalo.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-rams-psl-20170831-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

"The NFL's three newest stadiums priced the licenses much lower: Atlanta ($45,000), Minnesota ($9,500) and San Francisco ($80,000). About half of the NFL's teams use PSLs or something similar to finance their stadium."

 

People keep throwing out the $100,000 PSL, but the most expensive PSLs for a new stadium in Buffalo would likely be much less, and those are for clubs seats. $500 is enough for a PSL in some stadiums, but then you have to pay for a ticket on top of that. 

[LabattBlue]

5 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-rams-psl-20170831-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

"The NFL's three newest stadiums priced the licenses much lower: Atlanta ($45,000), Minnesota ($9,500) and San Francisco ($80,000). About half of the NFL's teams use PSLs or something similar to finance their stadium."

 

People keep throwing out the $100,000 PSL, but the most expensive PSLs for a new stadium in Buffalo would likely be much less, and those are for clubs seats. $500 is enough for a PSL in some stadiums, but then you have to pay for a ticket on top of that. 

What isn't stated in the article is the PSL prices for all stadium seats.  I'm sure there is a range, and maybe even seats that have no PSL.

[Buftex]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Quick side story that you may find interesting.  In New Orleans when they built the arena they basically used the Superdome and scaled it down. It was (and is) a terrible decision for a basketball arena. There are roughly 17,000 seats and about 10,000 of them are upstairs. You can get anywhere from $60 to $250 downstairs (floors excluded) and about $10 to $40 upstairs. They really missed the boat on the design. They should have had more rows downstairs, especially on the ends where you can get “cheaper” seats and less rows upstairs. One more fun fact about the arena build, they forgot to put the box office in when it was originally built. They were pretty much done and had to blow out a wall in a hallway to create something (and it was awful). It has since been renovated.

I haven't been there in a few years, and I know it is a legendary building, but I have never really liked the Louisiana Superdome...great city, great fans, but the place always seemed like a dump inside. 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What isn't stated in the article is the PSL prices for all stadium seats.  I'm sure there is a range, and maybe even seats that have no PSL.

Just for simple math 20,000 seats with a $5,000 average PSL is $100M. 

Just now, Buftex said:

I haven't been there in a few years, and I know it is a legendary building, but I have never really liked the Louisiana Superdome...great city, great fans, but the place always seemed like a dump inside. 

Yeah, they keep pumping money into it but I’m not a big fan either. They are going to throw more money at it again with the Super Bowl coming. The location can’t be beat which is why so many events are here. You can walk from the hotels, to restaurants, to Bourbon to the stadium without any issues. That isn’t the case in any other city (especially a party city). 

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just for simple math 20,000 seats with a $5,000 average PSL is $100M. 

I understand that.  I was just questioning some of the numbers being thrown out there, in a way that makes it seem like every seat at other NFL stadiums have that same dollar value PSL...or that PSL's in Buffalo would be anywhere close to that.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

52 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Field free to kick in some $$$$ from south Jersey.  Where do you think gov't money comes from?  Me!  No thanks.  I've had a 28% property tax increase the last three years, with 15% forecasted for next year.  Thank You West Seneca

 

People tend to overlook this reality when they talk about WNY property values being so attractive.

 

If I bought the same house I have in Maryland outside dc in a buffalo suburb, I’d pay half the price, but the monthy recurring cost wouldn’t be all that different, just more goes to taxes and less goes to equity. 

 

That aside i just dont see why a new new stadium is important. To get a shot at maybe hosting 1 Super Bowl some day? 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Buftex]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just for simple math 20,000 seats with a $5,000 average PSL is $100M. 

Yeah, they keep pumping money into it but I’m not a big fan either. They are going to throw more money at it again with the Super Bowl coming. The location can’t be beat which is why so many events are here. You can walk from the hotels, to restaurants, to Bourbon to the stadium without any issues. That isn’t the case in any other city (especially a party city). 

The last time I went to a game there was 2004, Saints beat the Chiefs.  I had an absolute blast the whole weekend, and it was a great game...used to try to go every year or two for a game, back in the 90's and early 2000's.  I suppose it has improved some since, but it was just always really run-down inside...just seem to remember endless areas in the concourses taped off, or "under construction"...for a "Superdome" it never felt very state of the art. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

I understand that.  I was just questioning some of the numbers being thrown out there, in a way that makes it seem like every seat at other NFL stadiums have that same dollar value PSL...or that PSL's in Buffalo would be anywhere close to that.

Yeah, I don’t think anyone believes that Buffalo will have $80K PSLs. The point was that the fans can pretty easily contribute a chunk through PSLs. They won’t be (and don’t have to be everywhere) but it is an option (especially if they’ll finance them). 

Just now, Buftex said:

The last time I went to a game there was 2004, Saints beat the Chiefs.  I had an absolute blast the whole weekend, and it was a great game...used to try to go every year or two for a game, back in the 90's and early 2000's.  I suppose it has improved some since, but it was just always really run-down inside...just seem to remember endless areas in the concourses taped off, or "under construction"...for a "Superdome" it never felt very state of the art. 

It’s undergone a pretty major overhaul since then (especially post-Katrina). It isn’t bad inside it is just missing something IMO. I’m not sure what really. Maybe it is just kind of dark in there? 

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, T master said:

 

 

What is wrong with it ? 

 

I have been to the stadium a few times & i don't get it ! The sight lines are really good the inside of the venue with the updated renovations (that i haven't seen) should have made the experience even better .

 

Lambeau , Soldier field, among others are older than New Era/The Ralph & with updates & renovations are still in great shape why build it if they don't need to !! 

Ok, I agree with your premise that nothing is wrong with it right now.

 

I had season tickets for 10+ years a while ago and don't anymore.  So, I'm good with the stadium where it is...the sport is pretty much the same watching on my TV in the living room.  The fact that the Bills have some of the (if not THE) lowest ticket prices in the NFL works for those who go to the games, and I'm glad they can enjoy that.

 

Why do I not go to the games anymore? A variety of reasons..but the biggest one being...whether by myself or with friends over, I enjoy watching the game on the big screen with whatever food and beverages I want...over the stadium gameday experience I used to have.

 

You can make the tickets $10....I even have had some offered to me for free, and I just won't go.  I get 99% of what I want/need out of my Gameday experience at home.

 

With all that said...when/if there IS a new stadium....if it comfortable..wider seats and aisles...more restaurants and bar/clubs in it....nicer/cleaner gathering areas...little or no wait to use the restrooms...and just something nicer and different to look at...then I'll go and I'll pay $100-$200 for a ticket for that. Why?  Now I'm getting something different that I haven't done or seen before that will get me off my couch and out to a game.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

13 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What isn't stated in the article is the PSL prices for all stadium seats.  I'm sure there is a range, and maybe even seats that have no PSL.

 

Of course there is a range. I'm sure it could be researched.

 

The point is, people seem to think that a new stadium would require fans to purchase PSLs for tens of thousands of dollars across the board, which isn't accurate. But If a new stadium downtown is the idea, it will cost much more to build and facilitate, and without a larger private contribution, the cost for PSLs would be greater. That's why a renovation would be the best option, and why you probably could read into Kim's comment as saying as much.

[Guest Mike147]

I have discussed this with other Bills fans and the impression I got from them is pretty much what people have echoed in this thread so far - we don't need a new stadium. We as fans don't need a new stadium because we are happy with what we've got. There is so much history at the Ralph that most of us don't want to lose that because we are sentimental. We would rather renovate our existing stadium than build a new one, and that idea is not uncommon in other major sporting leagues around the world. For example, Liverpool have been playing at Anfield since 1884 and that ground has undergone a number of renovations and expansions, with the most recent one seeing a third tier being added to their main stand. They have other stadium expansion/renovation work planned because what they want to do is protect their historic stadium and allow it to continue to be part of their club going forwards. Manchester United have played at Old Trafford since 1910, they have spent a lot of money renovating and expanding their stadium to make it one of the best in the world; and Real Madrid have played at the Bernabeu since 1947, in that time it has undergone four expansions and two renovations, and it is still one of the best stadiums in the world. If other major teams place a value on their historic stadium and renovate them rather than replace and manage to bring them up to modern day standards and expectations, why can't the NFL do the same with their stadiums rather than discard them?

 

For me, it doesn't make sense for us to discard stadiums like the NFL does because some of them can be renovated at a fraction of the cost and still give the 'average' fan a great experience. I don't tend to praise the Miami Dolphins, but they have done marvelous work on their stadium renovations and it looks like a brand new stadium. The outside looks great. Inside they have upgraded the experience because you are nearer the field, have the canopy to give you some cover, and the atmosphere is better. The Packers have renovated their stadium and Lambeau Field is a great experience for the 'average' fan. The Bears pretty much rebuilt their stadium and that is a great experience. So there are teams out there that have managed to renovate their existing stadiums and bring them into the current day. Okay, Lambeau Field doesn't look like the AT&T stadium but I'd rather watch a game of football at Lambeau Field than Jerry's palace because it is so impersonal. The beauty about watching a game at the Ralph is that it looks like a football stadium, it gives you a good view, and it is down to earth. However, the problem with everything I have just said, and the problem with what a lot of posters on this forum has said, is that our view that we don't need a new stadium is based on the premise that what the 'average' fan wants matters to the decision makers. 

 

The sad thing is that our opinion doesn't really matter. What matters is the opinion of those in positions of power and if they say a team needs a new stadium to remain viable in a certain market, then unfortunately at some point in the future that team will probably relocate if that stadium problem is not solved. The Chargers spent years dealing with the stadium issues in San Diego and ultimately ended up going to Los Angeles because there wasn't a mutually beneficial deal to be done. Up the road in Oakland the Raiders have spent years trying to get something done but they are heading to Las Vegas because that city will fund a brand new state of the art stadium. Then there is St Louis. They actually put a stadium proposal on the table and even had a naming rights deal in place, but the NFL ultimately called it unsatisfactory and inadequate, and allowed them to waltz to Los Angeles because they fear Stan Kroenke and let him have his way. Now I don't think the Pegula's are the type of owners that will not try to keep this team in Buffalo long term, but unfortunately this statement from Kim Pegula is pretty revealing and not particularly positive. She has hit the nail on the head by saying that the fans don't want to pay higher ticket prices or for PSLs, she is probably right that the city and state won't be willing to put a ton of cash into the pot, and to be honest as rich as they are the Pegula's aren't going to pay for a new stadium out of their own pocket.

 

So our long term future is in question because if the NFL does want a brand new stadium and that cannot be delivered here in Buffalo, and renovation work is not enough to keep those decision makers happy, then this team will move if there is a viable alternative elsewhere because the league has proven they are willing to let teams leave good markets for other markets. Realistically does LA need two teams? No, one is sufficient and they could have done more to keep one of those teams in either St Louis or San Diego. They are happy to see the Raiders leave the Bay Area, a strong NFL market, for an unknown in Las Vegas. Sure we have great fans here in Buffalo, but if San Antonio offer to build a brand new state of the art stadium and something can't be done in Buffalo, then the Pegulas will likely be nudged to take the team to that location if that is deemed to be the most profitable avenue for the league. After all the NFL is a business and they will do what is best for business irrespective of what we Buffalo Bills fans want, just like they didn't care about what happened to San Diego Charger fans, Oakland Raider fans, St Louis Rams fans, and every other team that has relocated down the years. If the NFL truly care about the fans in Buffalo, they will not force the stadium issue and let this team continue with what it has. However, an old stadium like ours doesn't fit their image and I doubt they will it let it slide and will be on the Pegulas for regular updates on this stadium issue. 

 

Like I said, we might not want or need a new stadium, but that is beyond our control and influence. Let's hope something gets done because the NFL would be worse off without the Buffalo Bills, but knowing the league they won't see it that way if another city pony up the cash to build a state of the art stadium and offer to take our team. 

[LabattBlue]

12 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Of course there is a range. I'm sure it could be researched.

 

The point is, people seem to think that a new stadium would require fans to purchase PSLs for tens of thousands of dollars across the board, which isn't accurate. But If a new stadium downtown is the idea, it will cost much more to build and facilitate, and without a larger private contribution, the cost for PSLs would be greater. That's why a renovation would be the best option, and why you probably could read into Kim's comment as saying as much.

I misread your previous postregarding stadium PSL's.  I still say Kim's comments are nothing more than the first shot fired in new stadium negotations.  They have nothing to do with a desire to keep the Bills at RWS.

Edited May 24, 2018 by LabattBlue

[TheFunPolice]

If you want public money you need to apply some pressure. That's all this is IMO

 

If you say you'll never move no matter what, where is the incentive for the state to give you $$

[Elite Poster]

19 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Funny we don’t hear that about Lambeau. 

 

Lambeau is somehow considered historic while New eras considered garbagetopolis prime. 

 

Lambeau had $150M worth of renovations three years ago putting them at around a half a billion since 2000 towards renovations. Facts facts facts. 

 

I am all for keeping new era where it is, but to say it doesn't need some upgrades is flat out incorrect.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Elite Poster

[Bobby Hooks]

12 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Lambeau had $150M worth of renovations three years ago putting them at around a half a billion since 2000 towards renovations. Facts facts facts. 

 

I am all for keeping new era where it is, but to say it doesn't need some upgrades is flat out incorrect.

Who ever said new era didn’t need work? You just creating conversations? 

 

“Facts, facts, facts...”

 

I can play play this game too, bananas are yellow, saying they’re not it flat out wrong! Facts, facts, facts! 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[Jay_Fixit]

20 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Funny we don’t hear that about Lambeau. 

 

Lambeau is somehow considered historic while New eras considered garbagetopolis prime. 

Lambeau went through an almost 300 million Reno. Has New Era come close to that?

 

No. 

 

But you can keep button mashing hoping to enact M. Bison’s Devils reverse if you want.

 

Ill be over here with a full power bar.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

25 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I misread your previous postregarding stadium PSL's.  I still say Kim's comments are nothing more than the first shot fired in new stadium negotations.  They have nothing to do with a desire to keep the Bills at RWS.

 

I agree with it being a first shot fired in a long, drawn out negotiation process. But the "We might not get there" part has meaning IMO. If a renovation would cost half of what a new stadium would cost, we can get there.

 

Eventually, something has to, and will happen. It's all a matter of what's feasible economically for this region. 

 

Bills fans don't "need" a new stadium or a renovated NEF. Most fans are fine with it as it is now. But the league and the owners do need it, for the Bills to be able to contribute money that's more in line with the rest of the league.