Kim Pegula on a New Stadium: "I Don't Even Know If We Can Get There"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, teef said:

i'm more of a horsey sauce purist, but since i pride myself as living life on the edge, i'd mix it up once.

 

Once you do, you'll never go back.

 

 

[4_kidd_4]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

100% he was!! He wasn’t out of touch; he was wise. He was the smartest guy in the room.

 

Kirby, I always appreciate your input, but especially here.

 

Everyone wanted to brush Ralph off as a crazy, cheap old coot, but he was absolutely in the right at the time, saying he wasn’t going to sign off on something he didn’t have time to read yet. Besides Cincy, all the other owners fell over themselves to sign and then a year later were like “oh...this IS a bum deal.”

[May Day 10]

This stadium issue IS a real balancing act.  Buffalo/WNY is a market that a stadium like NY, LA, Dallas, Atlanta, and even Minnesota do not make sense in.  The corporate and high end clientele does not exist here.  We also wouldn't get a fraction of the events those places (and even Indy) get/will get.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by May Day 10

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

I think we're talking about different percentages.  I'm not arguing about changing the salary cap tie to percentage of total revenues.  I'm talking about the split of gate receipts between the home and visiting teams.  If the owners propose to change the gate receipt sharing formula, that won't affect the salary cap because all it will do is reshuffle the revenue allocation among the owners, yet league defined revenues will stay the same.    But if that proposal will also force the smaller teams to then increase their ticket prices or find other ways to grow revenues, then the NFLPA will definitely support it.

Yeah, it sounds like we were talking about 2 different things. So your suggestion is that the home team keeps 70% and the visiting team 30% or something like that? They will always be contributing a portion of their revenue though so I’m not sure if it changes much? The Bills in this case would contribute even less because heir overall revenue would decrease.

 

If they went to a firm number for ticket revenue (probably have to be calculated prior to the start of the year) I suppose it could have the impact you are saying. If each team was required to contribute $3M a game from gate receipts that could have the impact. That however does change the cap from being a percentage of total revenues which I still don’t think will happen. 

[T master]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Sorry, but if you think the NFL is still a working man's sport, you're about 20 years out of date. And that's being generous.

 

 

In Buffalo it still is & always will be because the working man is what supports this team not the corporate entity !!

 

Too maybe thats why a lot of fans don't watch it like they use to because they are tired of what it has become !!

 

It sure ain't what it use to be when Rice, Bruce, Montana, Favre were playing ! There are very few players like them any more Kyle W. is a dying breed in todays NFL ...

 

TV ratings pretty much show it's on a down hill trend too & some fans don't care for the "New NFL" !! 

 

I know it's no longer the working mans sport the product & players on the field shows it , Cam, OBJ, Sherman & many more are all a part of the "Look at Me" movement not to slight their ability's because they are exceptional players i just don't dig the ego's !!

 

I'm turning into a bigger hockey fan every day !! But will always be a Bills fan !!

 

Yep i guess i'm old school & proud of it !! You nailed it !! 

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

I know I may be in the minority here, a new stadium would be cool, but I am fine with keeping the stadium, keeping ticket prices within reach and not out of range for me to consider, and having owners that are super rich and can make lucrative moves that help the team on the field instead of being pauper's like Sullivan was  in NE, or hearing Ralph say he had to sell a painting to be able to sign players in free agency (which I didn't believe, but still, didn't like hearing it).

[TheFunPolice]

I don't see why a stadium needs to cost more than a billion dollars, especially in WNY where land is cheap

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I don't see why a stadium needs to cost more than a billion dollars, especially in WNY where land is cheap

 

 

 

 

Good point.  $500 mill could give us a sweet ride.  Not everything that everyone wants, mind you, but still a nice rig.

 

However, you have to also think of the expense of road access.

Edited May 24, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts

[May Day 10]

3 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I don't see why a stadium needs to cost more than a billion dollars, especially in WNY where land is cheap

 

 

 

I think if we are talking downtown, when all is said and done with infrastructure costs, we would likely be north of $1 billion.

[Marv's Neighbor]

I really hope that I'm wrong about this BUT whenever I see/hear Kim, all I can think about is the movie Major League.

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

I really hope that I'm wrong about this BUT whenever I see/hear Kim, all I can think about is the movie Major League.

 

 

I'm not kidding, I sometimes think of it, too.  However, I just love that movie and Kim is an attractive female owner so...it just sort of goes together.  

 

Similarities end there.

[Marv's Neighbor]

3 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I'm not kidding, I sometimes think of it, too.  However, I just love that movie and Kim is an attractive female owner so...it just sort of goes together.  

 

Similarities end there.

Yes, I don't disagree with you, and maybe the movie is a bad example,  BUT when you look at what the BILLS have been through, you automatically think of; Major League & Slap Shot.

 

Oops, Kim runs the Sabres too!

[dollars 2 donuts]

52 minutes ago, teef said:

arby's should close all their brick and mortar stores, and just sell the horsey sauce retail.

 

47 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

mix the horsey/arbys sauce on curly fries and you're at the apex of fast food.

 

 

44 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm more of a horsey sauce purist, but since i pride myself as living life on the edge, i'd mix it up once.

 

 

Horsey sauce is what we get when God smiles down us.

 

 

 

Just now, Marv's Neighbor said:

Yes, I don't disagree with you, and maybe the movie is a bad example,  BUT when you look at what the BILLS have been through, you automatically think of; Major League & Slap Shot.

 

Oops, Kim runs the Sabres too!

 

 

Again, I think they are fine with not making a dime or even losing $ slightly, while remaining competitive...as long as they stay SUPER RICH, which they can do by not investing in a new stadium.

[oldmanfan]

Everyone is forgetting that Kim is a native WNYer.  Given that and their investment in two pro franchises and what they've done in the harbor area I cannot see them moving the team.

 

They have to decide on whether to significantly upgrade the Rich (old folks like me still think of it as the Rich) or build.  If they build then they need more financial input from others.  And they'll figure it out, whether it be the state, city, minority owners, etc. 

 

I like that she is concerned for the fee to of fans.  Can fans afford tens of thousands on PSLs?  No.  But I also think the poor me attitude is way overblown.  When my parents were still alive we'd come back to visit routinely.  And driving along the Boulevard, Maple Road and such every single restaurant parking lot was always full.  My impression is folks have disposable income, you just have to decide how to spend it.  If it were me I'd forego a night out to save for Bills seats.

 

 And yes ticket prices will go up.  But in return a new stadium would need to add amenities not present currently.  Also, the idea that there are no corporations for boxes seems simplistic.  Like Brandon or hate him,  he knew marketing and knew that regionalization of the franchise to Rochester, Syracuse, Toronto was important.  It will continue to be important.  

 

The Pegulas aren't dumb.  They didn't become billionaires being stupid.  They will think things through and develop plans that make fiscal sense, both for them and the fans.

[GG]

59 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, it sounds like we were talking about 2 different things. So your suggestion is that the home team keeps 70% and the visiting team 30% or something like that? They will always be contributing a portion of their revenue though so I’m not sure if it changes much? The Bills in this case would contribute even less because heir overall revenue would decrease.

 

If they went to a firm number for ticket revenue (probably have to be calculated prior to the start of the year) I suppose it could have the impact you are saying. If each team was required to contribute $3M a game from gate receipts that could have the impact. That however does change the cap from being a percentage of total revenues which I still don’t think will happen. 

 

It's definitely the latter recommendation - there's a minimum dollar floor of gate receipts that is shared with the visiting team. But again, that approach wouldn't change the total NFL revenue pool, it would just funnel more money to teams that charge more for tickets.

[Bills Pimpin']

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

Once you do, you'll never go back.

 

 

I agree with this. Everyone has a different ratio. I'm closer to Teef, about 25% Arby's and 75% Horsey....

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

16 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I would also consider a partial roof the way the Dolphins did it.  It would protect against some of the elements, it definitely holds in the crowd noise, and it could possibly help with the swirling winds (a guess).

 

Dolphins/Hurricanes Stadium Photo Inside

 

Dolphins/Hurricanes Stadium Photo Outside

 

With the $425 million renovations, the Hard Rock is like a brand new stadium.

A nice as these benefits are, they take almost zero direct gameday on filed benefits into account when building these things. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

When a minimum of 3 out of 8 Sunday’s are frigid, enduring a blizzard or both, while 25 guys stand shoulder to shoulder around a wash basin to UrN8, a new stadium is an overdue must. The decision isn’t in the hands of an under-compensated community. The ‘League’ couldn’t care any less about our ‘feelings’. It’s what They want and they have the leverage of eager cities to choose from to ransom it into being.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any provisions that would allow the league to force a team to relocate. What they would have to do is amend certain provisions in a new CBA, that would provide less revenue sharing to the Bills, thus forcing the team to make a move (no pun) one way or another.

 

3 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

I keep thinking back to the quotes I believe Mara and Khan gave indicating it was the Pegulas understanding that a new stadium would be needed was a key contributing factor in the other NFL Owners selecting the Pegulas bid for the team.

 

it Almost appeared then, the the promise of a new stadium by the Pegulas was good enough for the other owners NOT to push for the team in Toronto.

 

This would seemingly appear to be going back on that understanding between the Pegulas and the other Owners.

 

who I assume will still want and get their new stadium.  If not in Buffalo, then to put pressure on elsewhere.

 

 

 

The Bills do not "need" a new stadium. What the other owners want is for the Bills to be bigger contributors to the pie. One way to do that is with higher ticket prices and concessions.

 

Without looking it up again, I believe ticket sales contributed roughly 17% of the league's annual revenue, and with new, expensive stadiums being built recently, with higher ticket prices and PSLs, that percentage may go up. The Bills cannot justify a significant price increase to tickets and concessions currently, due to the lack of amenities, as well as the product on the field. 

 

Part of the new lease agreement with Erie County was the stadium research committee. They concluded that the bones of NEF were good enough to last another 30 years (IIRC, it may have been 40). On average, stadiums are lasting roughly 30 years before a new stadium is built.

 

A total renovation could be done for much less money than a new stadium, and the league's contribution could be higher for a renovation, based off of the current (<key word) G-4 program ($200 mil max for new stadium, $250 mil max for renovations). That would appease the owners, by creating an atmosphere that would allow for higher ticket and concession prices, as well as lessen the burden on tax payers. Someone threw out a figure of $600 mil for renovations (although it could cost less, based on recent renovations already completed). If that's the case, the "team" contribution (Pegulas + the league) could reach $500 mil. Then you would have $100 mil left for the state and local municipalities to sort out, much less public funding than would be required for a new stadium (roughly $300-400 mil, or more, depending on the scenario). That money could be paid off by enacting localized taxes, like a $5 (just throwing out a number) hotel tax within Erie and Niagara counties, $5 rental car taxes, local restaurant taxes of 1-2% to surrounding counties, license plate taxes, etc. Aside from the license plate tax, most of the other taxes will be paid for by out-of-towners, visiting for Bills and Sabres games, visting Niagara Falls, etc. Not too many locals are staying in hotel rooms or renting cars, and even still, the tax wouldn't kill your wallet. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "local taxpayer" burden fully if done right. 

[CountDorkula]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

In Buffalo it still is & always will be because the working man is what supports this team not the corporate entity !!

 

Too maybe thats why a lot of fans don't watch it like they use to because they are tired of what it has become !!

 

It sure ain't what it use to be when Rice, Bruce, Montana, Favre were playing ! There are very few players like them any more Kyle W. is a dying breed in todays NFL ...

 

TV ratings pretty much show it's on a down hill trend too & some fans don't care for the "New NFL" !! 

 

I know it's no longer the working mans sport the product & players on the field shows it , Cam, OBJ, Sherman & many more are all a part of the "Look at Me" movement not to slight their ability's because they are exceptional players i just don't dig the ego's !!

 

I'm turning into a bigger hockey fan every day !! But will always be a Bills fan !!

 

Yep i guess i'm old school & proud of it !! You nailed it !! 

 

This is 1000% false. 

[MarkyMannn]

18 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Exactly. They'd better pony up.

 

Field free to kick in some $$$$ from south Jersey.  Where do you think gov't money comes from?  Me!  No thanks.  I've had a 28% property tax increase the last three years, with 15% forecasted for next year.  Thank You West Seneca