transplantbillsfan Posted May 22, 2018 Author Posted May 22, 2018 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I disagree with your disagreement You're free to. It's an opinion, not a fact. Just as I'm free to disagree with your opinion.
Putin Posted May 22, 2018 Posted May 22, 2018 14 hours ago, nikuman said: I have an incredibly high degree of faith in this coaching staff, but given the losses we took on the o-line I honestly can't see how anyone believes that our starting QB doesn't spend half the season on his backside. For that reason alone, I really hope that they don't start Allen this year. IMO Wood was overrated , Richie was on the down side ( see pay cut ) , our OL is unproven but so was our defensive backfield last year , So please take two steps back no need to jump just yet !
Wayne Arnold Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, MJS said: And McCarron has to play like crap. I think McCarron will have that part perfectly covered. 1
ProcessAccepted Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: The informed ones might also understand that if Allen is by far and away the best option at QB going into the season, then he will start. Agreed, he should start when he's ready.
oldmanfan Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: You're free to. It's an opinion, not a fact. Just as I'm free to disagree with your opinion. Absolutely 1
Domdab99 Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 8 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: I really want a.j. to get his shot and start the season. I feel like he can take us to the playoffs and also or mostly empathy. I also think we need to carry 3 QBs so that at the end of the year we have options to gain assets for next year. lol wtf with this stuff? Why would you want a journeyman QB who couldn't unseat an average QB to "get his shot?" We just drafted THE MAN. If Allen is not starting by mid-season, then, well, he ain't really that man. Seriously, all you AJ fan-boys are nuts. Any game AJ plays is simply a place-holder game, waiting for the real QB to play. 1
Bfanlc Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Domdab99 said: lol wtf with this stuff? Why would you want a journeyman QB who couldn't unseat an average QB to "get his shot?" We just drafted THE MAN. If Allen is not starting by mid-season, then, well, he ain't really that man. Seriously, all you AJ fan-boys are nuts. Any game AJ plays is simply a place-holder game, waiting for the real QB to play. How is a player who is with his second team a journeyman? No one knows that Allen is the man and no one knows AJ isn't. If AJ plays great and Allen doesn't you have your starter. Really we want all 3 to play great. It gives this team great options. Some people like AJ some people like Allen. What's the big deal? Edited May 23, 2018 by Bfanlc
Lfod Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I disagree with your disagreement Well if the guy was right a lot Tyrod will still be in discussion for the Bills starting role and this would be a thread about that. Edited May 23, 2018 by Lfod
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2018 Author Posted May 23, 2018 19 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: A guy who made it through the first wave of free agency?...... like made it to day 2?... after he was awarded the right? I find it funny how people act like he was just sitting by the phone for weeks. I don't think there's any chance they throw ja in the first 4 weeks. 3rd day. May 14th was when he signed. He signed a day after McCown, Bradford, Cousins and Keenum all signed, which is what I consider the 1st wave because those were all the most desirable QBs in FA who were legit placeholders at the very least as starting QBs. Bridgewater was the other and he signed same day as McCarron, but I don't know if it was before or after. News was coming fast at the beginning of FA with lots of guys signing so that extra day is a long time. But it's not just the extra day, it's the fact that we might have been the most desperate team out there in terms of FA, but our eyes were clearly on the draft so we weren't going to overpay, which we didn't, because we got McCarron at a fantastic price. The Bills didn't go hard after any QB in FA, but they did after Allen. That says something.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 Wish it was Allen but I keep telling myself to be patient.
BullBuchanan Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 I think it's McCarron's job to lose, but I also think Peterman is going to light it up in camp and he'll get a look as a week one starter with McCarron coming in week 2.
billsredneck1 Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Bfanlc said: How is a player who is with his second team a journeyman? No one knows that Allen is the man and no one knows AJ isn't. If AJ plays great and Allen doesn't you have your starter. Really we want all 3 to play great. It gives this team great options. Some people like AJ some people like Allen. What's the big deal? Marvin Lewis was never going to allow a QB competition. Dalton is their franchise guy. Those who claim he couldn't beat out Dalton are just showing ignorance... .. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2018 Author Posted May 23, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 5:45 AM, RyanC883 said: I think McCarron starts week 1 and the entire season. I think he surprises people and is this years Jimmy G. Will be interesting to see what happens if Allen is lighting up practices while McCarron performs well during the season. Two good quarterbacks. Fantastic dilemma. I know, seems like a long shot, but I really think this will happen. McCarron = Jimmy G...?
John from Riverside Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 I voted AJM My hope is that AJM plays well enough that the coaches want to give Josh Allen some time holding the clip board and work him in slowly into the lineup......there is nothing wrong with that. 3
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I voted AJM My hope is that AJM plays well enough that the coaches want to give Josh Allen some time holding the clip board and work him in slowly into the lineup......there is nothing wrong with that. We are not desperate enough to throw the rookie in right away. If the wheels fall completely off, then and only then should he see the field.
transplantbillsfan Posted May 23, 2018 Author Posted May 23, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 6:56 AM, MDH said: Allen's biggest issue - his footwork - would be helped by not playing immediately. He needs thousands and thousands of reps to fix his footwork so it's muscle memory and not something he has to think about. It's been shown time and time again that when a player gets thrown into action too soon he just reverts back to his sloppy mechanics because instinct takes over. The sooner Josh Allen plays the less likely he ever fixes his footwork. I'm interested in Allen being the long term solution for the Bills and not someone they just throw out there hoping he's better than the other crap they have at QB this year. If that means sitting for a year then so be it. Personally, I want a QB who is better than Cam Newton and without fixing his footwork I see that as Allen's ceiling right now. First of all, if the coaches view Allen's mechanics as being below a certain threshold for NFL Quarterbacking, I'm sure he'll be on the bench until they're confident they're fixed. But I think his footwork problems are overblown. Yes, he has documented issues with footwork in college. But the footwork issues seemed to be more about inconsistency than bad habits. It was more that sometimes he would throw off his back leg or sometimes he wouldn't point his left foot in the direction he was going to throw or sometimes he wouldn't square his hips. But sometimes he would do everything exactly right. I'm not expert enough on the QB position regarding footwork and haven't watched every one of his snaps or every one of all the other rookie QB snaps to know how often this was a problem or how much more of a problem it was for him than it was for, say, Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield. But I've read varying analyses that the footwork improved from 2016-2018... plus there's the supposed work he did with Jordan Palmer all offseason. But I just don't think lower body mechanics (footwork) are nearly as concerning as the upper body mechanics, which Allen has down pretty well as he looks like a completely natural thrower of the football, unlike that other 1st round rookie we drafted 5 years ago, who legitimately needed to sit on the bench because he just wasn't a natural passer.
transplantbillsfan Posted May 24, 2018 Author Posted May 24, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 7:06 AM, Lfod said: Let's be honest, you only want Allen to start because your impatient. I think everyone would want Allen to win the job and be the face of the franchise. Unfortunately the team just doesn't have a strong offenseive foundation to throw a first round draft pick in and expect him to be the X factor in everything else gelling around him. You don't consider we have an offence in transition. You don't consider a new scheme and a new OC is in the building. Obviously the smart thing to do is protect the draft pick and sacrifice the Vet. At least until you feel that the offense has a rythm and you feel you can pull the Vet put in the rookie and get better results. If that rythm happens in preseason then fine do it. You would risk your draft pick long before you even know if it's really the right choice or not. Your only logic is that he was a first round pick and others have done it so can he. Different teams with different situations isn't a factor. I voted AJ wins the starting job. I'm not any kind of an expert but I do think putting in AJ first to see what you have and being protective of your first round pick until your more comfortable with the offenseive situation is the smartest choice and I believe McDermott is the same way. You can not start Allen and be wrong. It's not a situation you can get cute with just because you want to know what you have immediately. Let's be honest... no. No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient. Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here. Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does. And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan. But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1. What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets. You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such. I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory. Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously. But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense. He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen. Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means. I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen. And I think McDermott brought him in because of that. You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen. McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too. His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts. Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie. I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience. This is a new era of the NFL. It's not David Carr's era. Lots of QB-friendly rules. So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason. High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs. Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice.
oldmanfan Posted May 24, 2018 Posted May 24, 2018 The best guy will start. The best guy will be McCarron 1 1
Lfod Posted May 24, 2018 Posted May 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Let's be honest... no. No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient. Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here. Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does. And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan. But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1. What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets. You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such. I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory. Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously. But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense. He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen. Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means. I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen. And I think McDermott brought him in because of that. You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen. McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too. His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts. Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie. I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience. This is a new era of the NFL. It's not David Carr's era. Lots of QB-friendly rules. So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason. High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs. Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice. The bolded is correct 100%. Even if Josh Allen is better I would rather still throw AJ to the wolves to start the season. I want to see Dabolls offence in operation with a vet backup over a rookie QB regulardless of each QBs skill level. You admitted your feeling a little impatient and I'll admit I'm over protective of our first round pick. It's more then just Josh Allen, it's the reputation of McDermott and Beane that I don't want put in danger. Although we actually agree when it comes to the middle ground. I want Allen to start in games this season. Just not start the first game or four games. I want the offense warmed up in the scheme before the rookie takes the wheels. 1 1
transplantbillsfan Posted May 24, 2018 Author Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Lfod said: The bolded is correct 100%. Even if Josh Allen is better I would rather still throw AJ to the wolves to start the season. I want to see Dabolls offence in operation with a vet backup over a rookie QB regulardless of each QBs skill level. You admitted your feeling a little impatient and I'll admit I'm over protective of our first round pick. It's more then just Josh Allen, it's the reputation of McDermott and Beane that I don't want put in danger. Although we actually agree when it comes to the middle ground. I want Allen to start in games this season. Just not start the first game or four games. I want the offense warmed up in the scheme before the rookie takes the wheels. Fair enough... I understand your position, I just think you're being too absolute about a situation that started unfolding 2 days ago. Maybe you're setting the bar as low as possible so as not to be disappointed. Maybe you legitimately think Allen will need that time to adjust despite the fact that the other rookie 1st round QBs recently haven't because Allen is significantly more raw. But wouldn't it be more refreshing to see Allen win the QB competition and then start the season in those first 4 games you're afraid to throw him in? Of course you're going to say something like "yes, but I don't think that's going to happen." And that's fine. I just think there's a better chance of that happening than you do. And all my feelings are subject to change as we see how the Summer unfolds.
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