transplantbillsfan Posted August 31, 2018 Author Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Figster said: You just gave a real good argument on why A J McCarron should start against the Ravens IMO. Peterman's confidence is growing and it would be nice to build on vs tear down. Problem is I think McCarron is clearly behind Peterman or Allen. And I actually thought when we got him it was a good acquisition. But I just don't think McCarron is starting material.
keepthefaith Posted August 31, 2018 Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: So the narrative very widely held here seems to be that for those who believe Peterman will start the season, Allen will take over in week 4 or 5 or thereabouts. Which begs the question: why does Allen take over in week 4 or 5? Is it because he's ready in week 4 or week 5 even though he wasn't in week 1? OR Is it because Peterman just sucked that much in weeks 1-4 that Allen obviously had to be thrust in? Th first question seems, to me, an obvious no. If Allen isn't ready now, one month isn't going to suddenly make him magically ready to take the reins. So that leaves us with Peterman sucking for the first month. And I think most here saying Allen will start by week 4 or 5 but won't start the season believe it will largely because Peterman isn't playing well and the team is losing. Well, if average joe message board guy knows that's the reason, don't you think the coaches at One Bills Drive know that, as well? And if the coaches know that Peterman will force their hands in a month or so because of poor play--and I'm sorry, call this a leap but I think McDermott and Co. understand that teams don't scheme for players in the preseason, which was a massive part of Peterman's preseason success and that he is probably SIGNIFICANTLY easier to scheme for than Allen is--why do you really think the coaches would choose to keep Allen on the bench if they're going to play him anyway in a month? If Nate is terrible in week 1 against Baltimore, McDermott is going to look foolish on a national scale again. At least you have some wiggle room if Allen has a bad game in Baltimore since he's a rookie. I just think the more time this takes to announce the more likely it's Allen. If the Bills hold back the announcement until Baltimore and Allen goes out as the starter, no matter what the outcome, people across the nation will understand the move to hold back the announcement. If Peterman trots out there and if he has a bad game, McDermott is going to (I think rightfully) be pretty seriously criticized in a number of ways. That's why coaches get paid the big bucks. The criticism comes with the paycheck. Nate may start because Allen mentally isn't as far along as Nate is at running the offense, but that gap should close and when it does Allen's athletic ability makes him the better player. That would be the reason Nate starts now but doesn't hold onto the job.
Figster Posted August 31, 2018 Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said: Problem is I think McCarron is clearly behind Peterman or Allen. And I actually thought when we got him it was a good acquisition. But I just don't think McCarron is starting material. McCarron has started before and helped the Bengals reach the playoffs. McCarron basically did the same thing in his 1st ever playoff appearance as he did last night with 16 straight come from behind points. D couldn't close the deal. No game will ever be to big for A J McCarron IMO.
sleeby Posted August 31, 2018 Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: TheFunPolice would have to arrest you for missing such obvious sarcasm Aw, crap. Yer right! Sorry funpolice! Edited August 31, 2018 by sleeby
GoodHands15 Posted August 31, 2018 Posted August 31, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 4:57 AM, nikuman said: I have an incredibly high degree of faith in this coaching staff, but given the losses we took on the o-line I honestly can't see how anyone believes that our starting QB doesn't spend half the season on his backside. For that reason alone, I really hope that they don't start Allen this year. This guy. Nostradamus
Domdab99 Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 The narrative that Peterman should start because of the tough schedule doesn't hold water. If those D's are so ferocious, and if the Bills' OL is so atrocious, then those D's will just knock Peterman - a less mobile QB - out of the game, and Allen will have to play anyway. So start Allen NOW. Give him a full season of experience.
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 Funny that NP in last will most likely be week 1 QB and AJM 3rd. So much for us experts. 1
Figster Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Meanwhile McCarron led the team to 5 scoring drives ( 4 TD ) in one game for a dramatic come from behind win against the Bears which is even greater. Coach McD was asked after the game If McCarron was still being considered for the starting job and the answer was yes. The Great Debate III Edited September 1, 2018 by Figster
Real McClappy Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Figster said: Myself personally , A J McCarron exemplified what McD wants from his players last night. Despite being the 4th preseason game I don't think McD or the rest of the Bills players took the come from behind win lightly in my humble opinion. It ended the preseason for the team on a high note. Its the kind of gritty play that wins over a locker room IMO red. 75% suck ass and 25% good is what he wants? Game was a absolute train wreck until the 4th QTR. Edited September 1, 2018 by Real McCoy
Figster Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: 75% suck ass and 25% good is what he wants? 28 points and the win and you want to break it down in quarters, hahaha How is Allens last outing rated ? lol
BB@Shooter Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 On 5/23/2018 at 6:01 PM, transplantbillsfan said: Let's be honest... no. No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient. Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here. Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does. And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan. But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1. What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets. You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such. I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory. Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously. But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense. He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen. Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means. I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen. And I think McDermott brought him in because of that. You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen. McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too. His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts. Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie. I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience. This is a new era of the NFL. It's not David Carr's era. Lots of QB-friendly rules. So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason. High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs. Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice. Great post bud. I am from Wyoming and want Josh to start. But even I have concerns. My only real concern is injury after watching the Bengals game. The coaching didn't make me feel very good. I can tell they weren't worried about Allen being fragile though. I wasn't until I saw how poor the line was and how fast they made the game look. Allen has grown a ton since his last game for Wyoming. I saw it at the Senior Bowl. He grew immensely. And from his 1st exhibition game to his 2nd, great growth. And then his line , his receivers , his defense, his coaching, and himself let him down on his 3rd game. But kick that game out and I am like you, let the learning curve begin. He is a natural that could be close to taking a team like New England or Minnesota to the Super Bowl. He wouldn't have to overcome all the defenciencies of a team like the Bills have. If people on here can't see it, this is not a team built for success. They are in a rebuilding mode. They cut out what they thought were cancers. If they were or not. Or trying to get the team back to where they cut loose guys stopping them from getting back to where they could rebuild financially. It will take time. But the bottom line is they hooked their wagon to Allen. Now, right or wrong, they have to decide which way to go. I personally don't know which is right. But whatever they decide is what I have to live with. I like your post a lot. And I agree with a lot of the so-called experts. If he is the qb you thought he was, then starting him won't ruin him. And before anyone on here disagrees with me, I ask do you know more about Allen than I do? Have you seen him grow and watch him from week to week, season to season? Met him, been around him in private or public? Watched a good percentage of all of his practices and games? Well I have. I have also been around his family, his teammates, his situation. So of those who haven't, you don't know this kid. I want to say guy, but have a hard time doing so because I think of him as a kid. But he certainly doesn't act like one on the field. Although he does in person. Josh isn't some one who will wiłt, even during the Bengals game he was learning. He ate the ball. He didn't throw an interception, he ate it, in more ways than one. The old Josh would have thrown it one way or another. But he learned that quickly from game 1, don't throw it just anywhere. He learned that quickly, unlike Peterman, who threw pick after pick against San Diego last year. Allen is a rookie, but he is learning fast, very fast for a rookie with very little help. But he is used to that, but so many on here and the media jump back and forth so quick. Go back and look how quick you guys jumped on the bandwagon, and how quick you jumped off! Amazing. 11 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: It is going to be AJ McCarron. And I for one and excited, and it's all about that game he had last night! If he can add around 100 yards passing to last night's game, keep the same number of passing TD's, double his completion percentage, take 4 fewer sacks, and throw zero interceptions, he will be able to match the performance of the great EJ Manuel! I almost missed the sarcasm because I am so pissy about the O-line. Lol. 1
BB@Shooter Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 10 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Coach McDermott has said recently that he thinks it's great that AJ brought theBungles back to take the lead late in the playoff game. So yes, I agree that this will be seen as a HUGE positive by Coach McDermott. You can't teach that. Either you got it or you don't. Roger Staubach had it. Hotrod does not for example. Hilarious! !!!!! So a guy that can't show up against scrubs finally does in the 4th quarter, and he is your guy? He can't get a 1st down against the Browns, who won 1 game in how many years is your starter? Too funny.
Figster Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said: Great post bud. I am from Wyoming and want Josh to start. But even I have concerns. My only real concern is injury after watching the Bengals game. The coaching didn't make me feel very good. I can tell they weren't worried about Allen being fragile though. I wasn't until I saw how poor the line was and how fast they made the game look. Allen has grown a ton since his last game for Wyoming. I saw it at the Senior Bowl. He grew immensely. And from his 1st exhibition game to his 2nd, great growth. And then his line , his receivers , his defense, his coaching, and himself let him down on his 3rd game. But kick that game out and I am like you, let the learning curve begin. He is a natural that could be close to taking a team like New England or Minnesota to the Super Bowl. He wouldn't have to overcome all the defenciencies of a team like the Bills have. If people on here can't see it, this is not a team built for success. They are in a rebuilding mode. They cut out what they thought were cancers. If they were or not. Or trying to get the team back to where they cut loose guys stopping them from getting back to where they could rebuild financially. It will take time. But the bottom line is they hooked their wagon to Allen. Now, right or wrong, they have to decide which way to go. I personally don't know which is right. But whatever they decide is what I have to live with. I like your post a lot. And I agree with a lot of the so-called experts. If he is the qb you thought he was, then starting him won't ruin him. And before anyone on here disagrees with me, I ask do you know more about Allen than I do? Have you seen him grow and watch him from week to week, season to season? Met him, been around him in private or public? Watched a good percentage of all of his practices and games? Well I have. I have also been around his family, his teammates, his situation. So of those who haven't, you don't know this kid. I want to say guy, but have a hard time doing so because I think of him as a kid. But he certainly doesn't act like one on the field. Although he does in person. Josh isn't some one who will wiłt, even during the Bengals game he was learning. He ate the ball. He didn't throw an interception, he ate it, in more ways than one. The old Josh would have thrown it one way or another. But he learned that quickly from game 1, don't throw it just anywhere. He learned that quickly, unlike Peterman, who threw pick after pick against San Diego last year. Allen is a rookie, but he is learning fast, very fast for a rookie with very little help. But he is used to that, but so many on here and the media jump back and forth so quick. Go back and look how quick you guys jumped on the bandwagon, and how quick you jumped off! Amazing. For the record nobody is jumping off of the bandwagon. The more football savvy posters that frequent this forum don't want to see the future of the franchise ruined or injured. Trust me when I say we have seen it all. The problem I have is teaching Allen bad mechanics because the BIlls Oline isn't giving him enough time and space for good mechanics. Worse, season ending injury. Allen almost excited his last game start with a concussion. In my opinion McD wanted Allen to get a real taste of what he would be facing during the regular season so started him in game 3. It didn't go well. Josh Allen is not ready in my humble opinion. Edited September 1, 2018 by Figster
BB@Shooter Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Figster said: The problem I have is teaching Allen bad mechanics because the BIlls Oline isn't giving him enough time and space for good mechanics. Worse, season ending injury. Allen almost excited his last game start with a concussion. In my opinion McD wanted Allen to get a real taste of what he would be facing during the regular season so started him in game 3. It didn't go well. Josh Allen is not ready in my humble opinion. Good thing it is only your humble opinion. Allen started based on his growth through practices and games. AJ showed he wasn't ready against the Browns. Why is that different than Allen against the Bengals? NP is the only one who was consistent, but never faced a #1 offense since week one. So we have no barometer to go off of. To be fair, only NP and Allen have shown growth. And Allen had pissy poor o-line play, receivers, and coaching working against him. It is a toss up between Allen and NP. And the thing separating them is the schedule. So let the 5th rounder start and let the franchise guy come in when it gets a little safer. And with this O-line, that is questionable. But just know, Allen will start this year. If NP gets past this schedule, then he is the guy, and trade Allen. But with that weak arm of his it won't happen. He will throw picks once they figure out he only has a short game. They will have him figured out quick. Unless the line can block for the run or the pass. And good luck with that thinking. 1
reddogblitz Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said: Hilarious! !!!!! So a guy that can't show up against scrubs finally does in the 4th quarter, and he is your guy? He can't get a 1st down against the Browns, who won 1 game in how many years is your starter? Too funny. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. He's been my guy all along. You can laugh and count him out all you want, but none of us really know who it will be. Based on things he's said, I think Coach McDermott likes AJ more than a lot of people around here think. We'll see what happens ... 1
BB@Shooter Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 11 hours ago, sleeby said: You mean the second half he had last against a non starter defense? All three of our QBs have looked good in the second half and all three bad in the first. Likely our o-line vs a starting defense in large part. Start anyone but JA in weeks 1-4 and thru decide from there. Our o-line is criminal negligence. We are unlikely to win those games regardless of qb so don't risk the kid until we better know what the o-line can rise up to. Wrong on the looking bad in the 1st half. All have looked good in the 2nd quarter when they played. Big difference. Agreed, the O-line isn't good enough to support any of them in my thinking.
reddogblitz Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 54 minutes ago, Figster said: 28 points and the win and you want to break it down in quarters, hahaha Come on Fig, winning isn't in and of itself good enough. You have to win the right way. Even space out the points. Have your tanked for QB throw for 300 yards. now that's a win. Just win baby. 1
BB@Shooter Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 1 minute ago, reddogblitz said: I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. He's been my guy all along. You can laugh and count him out all you want, but none of us really know who it will be. Based on things he's said, I think Coach McDermott likes AJ more than a lot of people around here think. We'll see what happens ... A guy can dream. But not being able to bring it against the scrubs until the 4th quarter sealed it in my mind. NP will start before AJ ever does. Guaranteed. It is between NP and Allen without a doubt. I am leaning NP, but am an Allen fan all the way. But think it is best to sacrifice NP. But Allen will end up starting by at least a third of the way through the season.
Figster Posted September 1, 2018 Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said: A guy can dream. But not being able to bring it against the scrubs until the 4th quarter sealed it in my mind. NP will start before AJ ever does. Guaranteed. It is between NP and Allen without a doubt. I am leaning NP, but am an Allen fan all the way. But think it is best to sacrifice NP. But Allen will end up starting by at least a third of the way through the season. You do realize I hope McCarron was coming back from an injury, rusty, and has already proven he can win football games at the NFL level. Allen and Peterman haven't proven squat... Edited September 1, 2018 by Figster
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