TakeYouToTasker Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 I offer this thread, as it's sure to come up: What is the proper role of the FBI, if it encounters actual solid intelligence of a foreign entity infiltrating a Presidential campaign? Bear in mind that this isn't what happened here. In our case the FBI conspired with other intelligence agencies and various parties in order to create false and sensationalized "intelligence" in order to rig a federal election and cover up their own bad behavior and that of their superiors at the head of government. I'm speaking about a fictional accounting of a situation in which the FBI acquires real, verifiable intel. I look forward to your thoughts and legal opinions, amateur or otherwise. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 If there's a CREDIBLE threat of something like that happening, I'd have no problem with them ferreting out the infiltrators. But, like you said, nothing like that happened here.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 21, 2018 Author Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 7:50 PM, joesixpack said: If there's a CREDIBLE threat of something like that happening, I'd have no problem with them ferreting out the infiltrators. But, like you said, nothing like that happened here. Expand In that instance, what is the proper approach by the FBI?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 7:55 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: In that instance, what is the proper approach by the FBI? Expand I'd say that the target would have to be surveilled electronically, at the very least.
row_33 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Infiltrating as in a meme with Jesus armwrestling the Devil asking voters to let Trump win? that's worth $500,000,000 in investigations...
boyst Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 The FBI is a federal police for this country and has no business: 1) overseas affairs 2) state affairs 3) origami The FBI should: 1) assist with training for all levels of police forces when requested 2) maintain federal law 3) work out interstate jurisdictional squabbles 4) keep Roscoe, Ennis and Flash under control.
DC Tom Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 8:06 PM, Boyst62 said: The FBI is a federal police Expand No they are not. They are not the police. They're not. Don't encourage gatorman. 1
GG Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 I think it's the duty of law enforcement to investigate all legitimate areas of concern. It is also their duty to suspend the investigations when there's zero evidence of said concern.
BringBackOrton Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 8:28 PM, GG said: I think it's the duty of law enforcement to investigate all legitimate areas of concern. It is also their duty to suspend the investigations when there's zero evidence of said concern. Expand Right. And the great debate is "Who watches the watchers?" On 5/21/2018 at 7:47 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: I offer this thread, as it's sure to come up: What is the proper role of the FBI, if it encounters actual solid intelligence of a foreign entity infiltrating a Presidential campaign? Bear in mind that this isn't what happened here. In our case the FBI conspired with other intelligence agencies and various parties in order to create false and sensationalized "intelligence" in order to rig a federal election and cover up their own bad behavior and that of their superiors at the head of government. I'm speaking about a fictional accounting of a situation in which the FBI acquires real, verifiable intel. I look forward to your thoughts and legal opinions, amateur or otherwise. Expand As above. The capacity for oversight in a situation like this is virtually zero. There's an alternate reality where dossiers are released to the public in 2068 about the 2016 election and who President Clinton planted in the opponents' race. And no one cares.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 21, 2018 Author Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 8:28 PM, GG said: I think it's the duty of law enforcement to investigate all legitimate areas of concern. It is also their duty to suspend the investigations when there's zero evidence of said concern. Expand Assuming an alternative universe in which the FBI acquired, through legally prescribed means, evidence that foreign agents had infiltrated the Presidential campaign of Democratic candidate Tonald Drump, in what way should their investigation/actions have proceeded differently than what happened in our reality?
/dev/null Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 8:28 PM, GG said: I think it's the duty of law enforcement to investigate all legitimate areas of concern. It is also their duty to suspend the investigations when there's zero evidence of said concern. Expand Define legitimate Is it legitimate for the FBI to investigate tax fraud? Is it legitimate for the FEC to investigate a bombing? Is it legitimate for the ATF to investigate a bank robbery? Is it legitimate for the IRS to investigate gun running? Is it legitimate for NCIS to investigate untaxed cigarette sales on an Indian Reservation?
GG Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 8:47 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Assuming an alternative universe in which the FBI acquired, through legally prescribed means, evidence that foreign agents had infiltrated the Presidential campaign of Democratic candidate Tonald Drump, in what way should their investigation/actions have proceeded differently than what happened in our reality? Expand Again, if the facts unfolded as you described them, then FBI proceeded properly. That's not what happened.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Good topic - and tricky to answer... On the move at the moment, so I'll circle back and add more - but off the cuff: If there's enough evidence to launch a legit Counterintelligence investigation into a presidential campaign, it must be launched and concluded before people go to the polls. There cannot be a delay, nor can it be done in total secrecy. Once the investigative phase is concluded - due to the enormous stakes - it must be made public with as few redactions as possible so that the public can make up their own minds before going to the polls. That presumes that the investigation can be completed in an accelerated manner (sometimes it can't)... but if it can't be completed in time, there must be some sort of joint statement of fact made by either POTUS (if he/she is not running or involved) and the leader of the minority party in the house and senate to remove as much of the political slant as possible and inform the public. ...It's more complicated if the subject of the investigation is the incumbent and in control of the DOJ/FBI at the time.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 21, 2018 Author Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:01 PM, GG said: Again, if the facts unfolded as you described them, then FBI proceeded properly. That's not what happened. Expand Did they follow proper policy and procedure? Does it fall into their jurisdiction?
DC Tom Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:01 PM, GG said: Again, if the facts unfolded as you described them, then FBI proceeded properly. That's not what happened. Expand Who are you to judge? "Proper" is what the President says is proper. [/Not fascism, not at all]
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:03 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Did they follow proper policy and procedure? Does it fall into their jurisdiction? Expand The fbi has been involved in domestic counterintelligence for some time.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 21, 2018 Author Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:04 PM, joesixpack said: The fbi has been involved in domestic counterintelligence for some time. Expand As relates to election fraud?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:05 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: As relates to election fraud? Expand If it’s being orchestrated by a foreign power I’d assume yes.
row_33 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:05 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: As relates to election fraud? Expand people saying their side and using Facebook is not fraud. (well, it's a fraudulent waste of their life to use Facebook, but that's not the point..._)
GG Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 9:03 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Did they follow proper policy and procedure? Does it fall into their jurisdiction? Expand Then you have to clarify your premise, because the hypothetical scenario you described absolutely needs FBI to commence an investigation. If you're trying to build a strawman to tie it to the ongoing screw up, then don't waste my time.
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