I like the look of this roster/Defense

[GimmeSomeProcess]

This defense is going to be legit, sure our o line took some hits (Teller, Groy will not be as big as most think) but the defense had improved drastically. This defense had huge holes at DT, LB and DE and we filled those wonderfully.

 

Now I still think they are a dominant d end (hopefully Hughes regains it) away from being top 5 but they are close 

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I see people so certain of a down year.....I dont get it.

 

This team last year was biult around an improved defense to protect an offense that had a low production passing game but a good running offense.

 

This defense is poised to really get after a passer and shut down the running game which is only going to help a VERY good secondary......the offense is gonna have the ball in their  hands....a lot.

 

We are gonna turn the ball over more....I have accepted that because that is what Tyrod Taylor did...he protected the ball.....BUT....I anticipate a improved passing game that will put up passing TDs......I think this happens whether AJM or JA starts.....and I think that as JA transitions into the offensive starter role and gets time under his belt this will improve....then get a offseason with a ton of cap space AND another draft to get more offensive weapons......and LOOK OUT

 

but about this upcoming season....I frankly do not see a drop off.

 

I don't think a single person who is "down" on the Bills this year thinks it's because of the defense.

 

It's been gone over a hundred times why people are concerned.

Our wide receivers are a dumpster fire.

Our Oline lost it's 3 best players this offseason, and replaced them with pretty much nobody.

Our QB situation, while improved dramatically for the future, is a big ?? this upcoming season, seeing as AJM has very limited starting experience, and when he did start, was throwing to AJ green, Mohammad Sanu, and Tyler Eifert, which is dramatically better than our receivers, so it's hard to get a good read on what he's capable of, and JA looks to be the real deal to me, but even if he is amazing, rookie QB's rarely if ever fare well at first, so there will be plenty of growing pains.

Many of us who are "down" on the Bills this year foresee it because we are objectively looking at the offense, seeing that it has a good future, and not being a homer and lying to ourselves that this unit is anything but an immediate downgrade from last year.

[Bing Bong]

We lost little, won't run gaines. New OC. better secondary chemistry, see nothing wrong barring QB turnovers

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't think a single person who is "down" on the Bills this year thinks it's because of the defense.

 

It's been gone over a hundred times why people are concerned.

Our wide receivers are a dumpster fire.

Our Oline lost it's 3 best players this offseason, and replaced them with pretty much nobody.

Our QB situation, while improved dramatically for the future, is a big ?? this upcoming season, seeing as AJM has very limited starting experience, and when he did start, was throwing to AJ green, Mohammad Sanu, and Tyler Eifert, which is dramatically better than our receivers, so it's hard to get a good read on what he's capable of, and JA looks to be the real deal to me, but even if he is amazing, rookie QB's rarely if ever fare well at first, so there will be plenty of growing pains.

Many of us who are "down" on the Bills this year foresee it because we are objectively looking at the offense, seeing that it has a good future, and not being a homer and lying to ourselves that this unit is anything but an immediate downgrade from last year.

Offensive linemen can be replaced

Who did we lose at WR from last year to this

The defense should be even better

 

Stop using the word "homer" to justify your position....you absolutely do not know

[NeckMeat182]

Fudge it!

 

I think this D is going to be so gnarly that Josh Allen should start out the gate, with kid gloves ofcourse.  Thats if he beats out or is equal to aj and pooped my pants Peterman.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Offensive linemen can be replaced

Who did we lose at WR from last year to this

The defense should be even better

 

Stop using the word "homer" to justify your position....you absolutely do not know

We lost Thompson who isn't exactly a #1 or #2 receiver, but he did have the most yards last year of any of our WR's at a whopping 430 yards.  We didn't exactly add anybody noteworthy.  Benjamin should be much better as long as he stays healthy (which is far from a guarantee).  Hopefully, Zay Jones makes a giant leap this year.  It's still our weakest position and I'm concerned with the lack of depth.

[Kemp]

I will guess D is mediocre and O will be among the worst. QB is worse than last year. OL is much worse than last year. WR is a horror show unless Jones improves a lot. 

 

If Allen works out, they might be a contender in 2 years. If not, it will be more extended ugliness. I will be surprised if Allen becomes a franchise QB.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

We lost Thompson who isn't exactly a #1 or #2 receiver, but he did have the most yards last year of any of our WR's at a whopping 430 yards.  We didn't exactly add anybody noteworthy.  Benjamin should be much better as long as he stays healthy (which is far from a guarantee).  Hopefully, Zay Jones makes a giant leap this year.  It's still our weakest position and I'm concerned with the lack of depth.

That is kinda my point Doc.....the best WR from last year was no great shakes

 

It wont take that much to improve upon the situation.

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

We can be a top 10 defense that wreaks havoc on opposing offenses.  However, If your offense can't stay on the field, even the best defenses will wear down over the course of a game.  We need our o-line to outperform expectations given our top three lineman from last year are gone, Zay Jones to turn into the pick OBD thought he'd be, and whoever starts at quarterback to be efficient at moving the sticks.

 

Considering we were 30th in time of possession last year - I'd like to think we can improve on that putrid number.

[SouthNYfan]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Offensive linemen can be replaced

Who did we lose at WR from last year to this

The defense should be even better

 

Stop using the word "homer" to justify your position....you absolutely do not know

 

-"offensive linemen can be replaced" . good . I understand this. HAVE they been replaced? NO they have not. Thus, this unit is most likely a downgrade from last year.

-"who did we lose at WR from last year to this year" . i said they are a "dumpster fire" just like they were last year, but KB had knee surgery, again, thus he's most likely going to be worse.

 

-i concur the defense will be better

-you ignored everything I said about the QB's because it didn't fit your answer.

 

If you think the offense was anything but a tire fire last year, and think that a few late round pick WRs, a couple of castoff FA WRs, an offensive line that lost 3 starters and replaced them with nobody, and a QB situation that is wholly unproven is anything but a downgrade for this upcoming season, then yes, you are a "homer"

[BADOLBILZ]

 

On paper the Bills have:

 

The WORST offensive line in the NFL

The WORST WR corps in the NFL

The OLDEST and shallowest RB corps in the NFL

The most UNPROVEN QB situation in the NFL

 

We will learn a lot more about this team in camp.    Great coaching/strategy can transform an OL and/or cover up for weak WR corps but if you can't play decent offense your defense needs to be absolutely physically dominating to remain competitive...........and this defense is really built more to be bend-no-break and opportunistic than they are physically overwhelming.    Try to remember that this team gave up 46 points per game over one 3 game stretch last year.........they aren't a stand-alone unit they need an offense that keeps them in position to succeed and a special teams that takes advantage of all opportunities......adding Star Lotulelei and Harrison Phillps and a rookie LB isn't going to transform them into the legion of Boom or the 2000 Ravens.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

-"offensive linemen can be replaced" . good . I understand this. HAVE they been replaced? NO they have not. Thus, this unit is most likely a downgrade from last year.

-"who did we lose at WR from last year to this year" . i said they are a "dumpster fire" just like they were last year, but KB had knee surgery, again, thus he's most likely going to be worse.

 

-i concur the defense will be better

-you ignored everything I said about the QB's because it didn't fit your answer.

 

If you think the offense was anything but a tire fire last year, and think that a few late round pick WRs, a couple of castoff FA WRs, an offensive line that lost 3 starters and replaced them with nobody, and a QB situation that is wholly unproven is anything but a downgrade for this upcoming season, then yes, you are a "homer"

Where to begin....

 

Groy is very underrated.....Dawkins was a hit last year....Decausse actually got better as the season went on.....the system is going more power based so Miller might actually get his spot back......this is not accounting for Teller who was a extremely productive OG in college.....Cognito was actually REGRESSING last year.

 

Your counting on Kelvin Benjamin to be worse....now where would this line of thinking even come from?  You absolutely dont know anything of the kind.  Lets not even talk about how the WR position was barely even used last year when they WERE open so we dont even know what we have....our TE's are more then servicable as well.

 

Im not talking about the QBs because they are a complete unknown....hint...unknown does not mean regression....it means WE DONT KNOW YET

 

And you can take homer and stick it up your.......

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

On paper the Bills have:

 

The WORST offensive line in the NFL

The WORST WR corps in the NFL

The OLDEST and shallowest RB corps in the NFL

The most UNPROVEN QB situation in the NFL

 

We will learn a lot more about this team in camp.    Great coaching/strategy can transform an OL and/or cover up for weak WR corps but if you can't play decent offense your defense needs to be absolutely physically dominating to remain competitive...........and this defense is really built more to be bend-no-break and opportunistic than they are physically overwhelming.    Try to remember that this team gave up 46 points per game over one 3 game stretch last year.........they aren't a stand-alone unit they need an offense that keeps them in position to succeed and a special teams that takes advantage of all opportunities......adding Star Lotulelei and Harrison Phillps and a rookie LB isn't going to transform them into the legion of Boom or the 2000 Ravens.

The jags did it

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

On paper the Bills have:

 

The WORST offensive line in the NFL

The WORST WR corps in the NFL

The OLDEST and shallowest RB corps in the NFL

The most UNPROVEN QB situation in the NFL

 

We will learn a lot more about this team in camp.    Great coaching/strategy can transform an OL and/or cover up for weak WR corps but if you can't play decent offense your defense needs to be absolutely physically dominating to remain competitive...........and this defense is really built more to be bend-no-break and opportunistic than they are physically overwhelming.    Try to remember that this team gave up 46 points per game over one 3 game stretch last year.........they aren't a stand-alone unit they need an offense that keeps them in position to succeed and a special teams that takes advantage of all opportunities......adding Star Lotulelei and Harrison Phillps and a rookie LB isn't going to transform them into the legion of Boom or the 2000 Ravens.

This is where coaching comes in.

 

To things that should be improved.

 

Teams should not be running on us with ease like they were last year

 

Improved pass rush should result in more turnovers with our excellent secondary

 

I am not in agreement with our RBs.....Shady is still Shady and I like Ivory more then most because I love his fit in the offense....the guy is a physical beast who actually can run sideways to the LOS if he needs to.....they brought back last year's depth that they found which I thought provided some production for a 3rd back.

 

I know some of these things are unknowns......unknown does not automatically mean regression to me.  McDermott does a lot with a little it seems.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Where to begin....

 

Groy is very underrated.....Dawkins was a hit last year....Decausse actually got better as the season went on.....the system is going more power based so Miller might actually get his spot back......this is not accounting for Teller who was a extremely productive OG in college.....Cognito was actually REGRESSING last year.

 

Your counting on Kelvin Benjamin to be worse....now where would this line of thinking even come from?  You absolutely dont know anything of the kind.  Lets not even talk about how the WR position was barely even used last year when they WERE open so we dont even know what we have....our TE's are more then servicable as well.

 

Im not talking about the QBs because they are a complete unknown....hint...unknown does not mean regression....it means WE DONT KNOW YET

 

And you can take homer and stick it up your.......

 

You can't read, can you?

HE HAD YET ANOTHER KNEE SURGERY.

So yes, I am counting on him to be worse than last year.

We have a bottom 5 WR corps in the league. That's not even debatable. To think that they are anything but bottom barrel is just completely lost.

You're "not talking about the QBs" because you know you have no leg to stand on. Complete unknown, and MOST LIKELY regression, based on the fact that rookies almost never perform well their first season, and AJ played average at best throwing to Green, Sanu and Eifert when he actually did start.

Your Oline argument is serviceable at best, we lost our 3 best players, period. That's what happened. We replaced them with nobodies who MIGHT be okay.

 

So, yes, you are a homer.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

You can't read, can you?

HE HAD YET ANOTHER KNEE SURGERY.

So yes, I am counting on him to be worse than last year.

We have a bottom 5 WR corps in the league. That's not even debatable. To think that they are anything but bottom barrel is just completely lost.

You're "not talking about the QBs" because you know you have no leg to stand on. Complete unknown, and MOST LIKELY regression, based on the fact that rookies almost never perform well their first season, and AJ played average at best throwing to Green, Sanu and Eifert when he actually did start.

Your Oline argument is serviceable at best, we lost our 3 best players, period. That's what happened. We replaced them with nobodies who MIGHT be okay.

 

So, yes, you are a homer.

I see....your basing definative statements over unknowns (like you would actually know anything to start with arm chair quarterback)

 

Unknowns are not regression....but why would anyone even try to convince you of that...they are UNKNOWNS

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by John from Riverside

[Doc Brown]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

That is kinda my point Doc.....the best WR from last year was no great shakes

 

It wont take that much to improve upon the situation.

We'll get better just by changing our starting QB, but how much better is the question.  It's still a bottom five crew at the moment until proven otherwise.  I would've added more depth at the position if I was Beane, and maybe he still does before the season. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

We'll get better just by changing our starting QB, but how much better is the question.  It's still a bottom five crew at the moment until proven otherwise.  I would've added more depth at the position if I was Beane, and maybe he still does before the season. 

They might not be done.....they are a bit hamstrung from the dead cap situation.

Still not ready to give up on the season till I see the product on the field.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

They might not be done.....they are a bit hamstrung from the dead cap situation.

Still not ready to give up on the season till I see the product on the field.

 

Saying "they might not be done" is not a reflection of the current roster of pass catchers, which is garbage at best.

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We'll get better just by changing our starting QB, but how much better is the question.  It's still a bottom five crew at the moment until proven otherwise.  I would've added more depth at the position if I was Beane, and maybe he still does before the season. 

 

It is definitely down there, and I'm not sure how it will not be.

KB had another knee surgery, which doesn't bode well for a guy who wasn't a speedster to begin with.

Hopefully we do get better by changing our QB, but that's a big if.

I see a regression on offense, with a good shot to the future with JA.

[Lenigmusx]

This Defense has pontential to be stifling like the 1999 unit. It is quite ironic because the offense could face similar challenges as well. I really am hopeful that WR talent is addressed and a couple more vets are brought in. I also think that you could see Logan Thomas and Kelvin Benjamin at WR with Clay at TE to create some insane size mismatches. Logan can run like a WR. Use him like we used to use Mckeller in the glory days. 

[Doc Brown]

39 minutes ago, Kemp said:

I will guess D is mediocre and O will be among the worst. QB is worse than last year. OL is much worse than last year. WR is a horror show unless Jones improves a lot. 

 

If Allen works out, they might be a contender in 2 years. If not, it will be more extended ugliness. I will be surprised if Allen becomes a franchise QB.

 

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

They might not be done.....they are a bit hamstrung from the dead cap situation.

Still not ready to give up on the season till I see the product on the field.

There always seems to be a way to play with the contract numbers to sign somebody if they go that route to stay under the cap.  A new offensive system may help the WR's as well.  

[GunnerBill]

The sneaky big loss on defense is EJ Gaines. I know he missed time injured but when he was out there the D was better by any objective measure. 

 

I like Vontae - a few years ago he was a borderline top 10 corner but he isn't as natural a zone fit in McDermott's cover 3. He is basically a guy who at his best could play press man but now with a body showing the strain of his injury history has become more of a zone guy. I expect him to be decent but when Gaines was healthy and out there in 2017 he was better than just decent. 

 

I do expect the D to improve overall. I think it will fix some of the run game issues, and be less suscetible to short passing teams working those intermediate zones behind our linebackers. It isn't yet ready to be a dominant NFL defense though because it just doesn't have that dominant pass rusher that all the top Ds possess. Trent Murphy is a nice add if he is over his injury but he isn't Mario Williams circa 2014. That is the player this D needs to make it seriously scary and that player probably comes in the 2019 NFL Draft.