Hard Knocks 2018: The Cleveland Browns

[Rocky Landing]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats not really accurate though...if its an in season firing, its always within the organization and if they show well they can have the interim tag removed and be named HC moving forward the next season.  Its happened several times before.  Plus, if say the Browns offense is going well but they are losing because of the D, that certainly bodes well for Haley doing his job well and certainly would be a candidate to replace Hue.  

 

Ultimately, I think all 3 are bad HC's anyway, but I can see why Haley and Gregg might be licking their chops there.  

 

Going back to Hue, man I really feel for this guy having to lose his brother and mom recently and he seems to genuinely care deeply about players and just be a great guy overall.  But, that being said, I am grossly underwhelmed with him as a HC between his record and also seeing behind the scenes.  We only see what the editors put out, but I think its a NIGHT and DAY difference than what we saw with say McD who just continues to impress.  

 

And its a NIGHT and DAY difference than some other good HC's I have seen on previous seasons of both Hard Knocks and All or Nothing.  Sadly the only one it closely reminds me of is Rex when he was on there or Joe Philbin...and I dont mean that in a good way.  

I know there have been mid-season HC firings where one of the coordinators moved up. But, it seems to me (and I have no stats, whatsoever to back this up) that they are rarely retained beyond that season, and if they are, it wouldn't be a team with an endemic losing culture. If Hue doesn't turn this team around, this season, I think there would be a housecleaning at the end of the season.

 

I was thinking the same thing regarding Hue's similarity to Rex, when he was on Hard Knocks with the Jets. Rex was famous as a "player's coach," and Hue seems to be of that temperament, as well.

 

I actually work in the motion picture industry in LA, and I have worked on several reality shows (mostly cooking), and I can say that while they do play up the dramas, and create narratives in the editing room, they're not handing out scripts to anyone. I would think, also, that with the turnaround that this show requires, that this is some pretty raw editing. In other words, I don't think there's enough time between shooting, and airing for there to be much misrepresentation from the editing process.

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

If Haley or Williams think they are going to slide into the Head Coaching position after another failed Hue Jackson season, they're as dumb as dirt. Teams that are trying to move on from a losing culture don't generally give promotions to key members of that culture.

 

Then why was Hue Jackson rewarded with another year?

 

Dorsey is a boob, straight up.

[Rocky Landing]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then why was Hue Jackson rewarded with another year?

 

Dorsey is a boob, straight up.

Because last year was a tank?

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then why was Hue Jackson rewarded with another year?

 

Dorsey is a boob, straight up.

 

I agree retaining Hue was a head-scratcher.  I believe I've read or heard somewhere that Dorsey would have preferred to hire a new coach but Haslem said Hue had to stay at least one more year.  If that is true, then Dorsey is indeed a boob for agreeing to join this front office and essentially waste another year.  If it isn't true and Dorsey made the decision to retain Hue, then Dorsey is indeed a boob for keeping a loser HC.

 

So, in either case, Dorsey is indeed a boob.

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I know there have been mid-season HC firings where one of the coordinators moved up. But, it seems to me (and I have no stats, whatsoever to back this up) that they are rarely retained beyond that season, and if they are, it wouldn't be a team with an endemic losing culture. If Hue doesn't turn this team around, this season, I think there would be a housecleaning at the end of the season.

 

I was thinking the same thing regarding Hue's similarity to Rex, when he was on Hard Knocks with the Jets. Rex was famous as a "player's coach," and Hue seems to be of that temperament, as well.

 

I actually work in the motion picture industry in LA, and I have worked on several reality shows (mostly cooking), and I can say that while they do play up the dramas, and create narratives in the editing room, they're not handing out scripts to anyone. I would think, also, that with the turnaround that this show requires, that this is some pretty raw editing. In other words, I don't think there's enough time between shooting, and airing for there to be much misrepresentation from the editing process.

 

Yeah I agree with all of this and I would expect that if they do fire Hue they would go outside the organization for the next HC (and they should as I think Greg and Haley both suck as HC's).  

 

The only thing I would add though, is you can see how Haley and Gregg are not in support of the way Hue is going about things, so inside they can certainly make their case that they weren't in agreement with Hue's way of doing things to lessen the heat thats on them individually as coordinators.  So, could see if one side of the ball was having success but they still weren't winning, then that OC or DC could make a case for why they should take over.  

 

Yeah I own an digital television network here in LA myself, so I know what you mean about the edit.  I also know some of the higher ups on Hard Knocks and know its not a hatchet job over there and they do a pretty good job of just telling accurate stories and portrayals.  One of the few reliable reality shows these days, which is rare.   As you know, most reality TV isn't very real and mostly soft scripted or flat out scripted garbage.    

[GaryPinC]

47 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

If Haley or Williams think they are going to slide into the Head Coaching position after another failed Hue Jackson season, they're as dumb as dirt. Teams that are trying to move on from a losing culture don't generally give promotions to key members of that culture.

Who says the Browns are moving on from the losing culture?  Did it start with the hiring of Jackson?  It starts at the top.

[BillsBytheBay]

I do see why players don't want to play for Haley long.  Dude is an ass.  A bit of a bully too.  Hue is a waste of space.  I really can't see why that has stayed coaching... Inept and doesn't seem to care for his players any more than a superficial way.

9 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Who says the Browns are moving on from the losing culture?  Did it start with the hiring of Jackson?  It starts at the top.

Damn good point.  But why?  Why does it seem like they activly are trying to suck?  

[Rochesterfan]

53 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats not really accurate though...if its an in season firing, its always within the organization and if they show well they can have the interim tag removed and be named HC moving forward the next season.  Its happened several times before.  Plus, if say the Browns offense is going well but they are losing because of the D, that certainly bodes well for Haley doing his job well and certainly would be a candidate to replace Hue.  

 

Ultimately, I think all 3 are bad HC's anyway, but I can see why Haley and Gregg might be licking their chops there.  

 

Going back to Hue, man I really feel for this guy having to lose his brother and mom recently and he seems to genuinely care deeply about players and just be a great guy overall.  But, that being said, I am grossly underwhelmed with him as a HC between his record and also seeing behind the scenes.  We only see what the editors put out, but I think its a NIGHT and DAY difference than what we saw with say McD who just continues to impress.  

 

And its a NIGHT and DAY difference than some other good HC's I have seen on previous seasons of both Hard Knocks and All or Nothing.  Sadly the only one it closely reminds me of is Rex when he was on there or Joe Philbin...and I dont mean that in a good way.  

 

 

Agreed and Haley was brought in from outside the organization over and objections of Hue.  Hue ran the offense and Dorsey forced an OC in and my belief is they plan on replacing Hue with Haley at the first opportunity.

[Mr. WEO]

25 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Because last year was a tank?

 

Tank?

 

Last year was Hue's second best year as the Browns HC.

22 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I agree retaining Hue was a head-scratcher.  I believe I've read or heard somewhere that Dorsey would have preferred to hire a new coach but Haslem said Hue had to stay at least one more year.  If that is true, then Dorsey is indeed a boob for agreeing to join this front office and essentially waste another year.  If it isn't true and Dorsey made the decision to retain Hue, then Dorsey is indeed a boob for keeping a loser HC.

 

So, in either case, Dorsey is indeed a boob.

 

Dorsey even screwed up the #4 pick.

[Rocky Landing]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Tank?

 

Last year was Hue's second best year as the Browns HC.

It was a two-year tank. That's some next-level strategy, right there!

[Rochesterfan]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then why was Hue Jackson rewarded with another year?

 

Dorsey is a boob, straight up.

 

 

Dorsey wanted his own guy - I believe he wanted to bring Nagy with him to develop the future #1 pick, but Haslam made a decision that Hue was staying and that was that.

 

I am not sure it was a reward to keep Hue another year - this is going to be very hard on him with that staff.

[ny33]

Carl Nassib is an idiot. I loved when Fabiano shut him down. The market doesn’t return 10% (something closer to 7%) and interest certainly doesn’t, either. With the exception of a handful of closed private equity and venture capital funds, alternative investment doesn’t, either. Even the big guys like Carlyle, Blackstone, and TPG see significant IRR declines in second and later-generation funds. 

 

I love Tyrod’s mentality and professionalism. I wish we had him over McCarron as we ease Allen in, but he’s got a chance to succeed with Njoku and Landry in Cleveland. Best of luck to him. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by ny33

[GaryPinC]

28 minutes ago, JaxBills said:

I do see why players don't want to play for Haley long.  Dude is an ass.  A bit of a bully too.  Hue is a waste of space.  I really can't see why that has stayed coaching... Inept and doesn't seem to care for his players any more than a superficial way.

Damn good point.  But why?  Why does it seem like they activly are trying to suck?  

I live in Cleveland, Haslem is a lousy owner.  After spending time with the Steelers as a minority owner it seems unbelievable, but it is what it is.

[BillsBytheBay]

2 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

I live in Cleveland, Haslem is a lousy owner.  After spending time with the Steelers as a minority owner it seems unbelievable, but it is what it is.

I refuse to believe it.  But, Cleveland has made a movie about a sports team activly trying to suck....  And it seems the same.  I know the players want to win, the coaches need to for there own sake.... So.... I don't know.  It hurts to watch.  On that note, I feel like Colman can revive his career with buffalo.

[Fadingpain]

9 hours ago, eball said:

After episode two, my takeaways:

 

-- Greggo is still a douchenozzle.  "If it's free, it's me."

-- Callaway is dumber than a box of rocks.

-- Dorsey's NFL player personnel man is either completely incompetent or remarkably camera shy.

-- Dorsey is unimpressive.

-- I like Mayfield; he may succeed despite that organization.

-- I hope Cajuste makes the team; good dude and story.

-- Todd Haley is just biding time until he gets a shot at a bigger job.

-- Hue already looks like a dead man walking.

Before the draft, there was some discussion about how some players will fail in the NFL once drafted, and yet it won't really be on the player himself.  I.E., more goes into a player's success than just the player, and if he is drafted by the wrong team/organization and is a bad fit or doesn't get the right coaching, he may fail, even though he may have succeeded elsewhere.

 

I think of that discussion when I think of Mayfield.  He seems like a guy who should be a successful, good, NFL QB...and yet his career may go sideways simply b/c he ended up in the wrong situation at the wrong time.

 

We'll find out.

 

 

33 minutes ago, ny33 said:

Carl Nassib is an idiot. I loved when Fabiano shut him down. The market doesn’t return 10% (something closer to 7%) and interest certainly doesn’t, either. With the exception of a handful of closed private equity and venture capital funds, alternative investment doesn’t, either. Even the big guys like Carlyle, Blackstone, and TPG see significant IRR declines in second and later-generation funds. 

 

I love Tyrod’s mentality and professionalism. I wish we had him over McCarron as we ease Allen in, but he’s got a chance to succeed with Njoku and Landry in Cleveland. Best of luck to him. 

 

 

Don't be so harsh on these guys.  At least Nassib is aware of the concept of interest.

 

Some of the players we saw in the first episode were clearly being introduced to the concept of interest for the first time.

 

It makes me sick to see these guys who allegedly attended college and some have probably even graduated!  They just aren't college material and pretending that they are b/c they are good at football disgusts me.

 

I agree with you though....the guy's point was that Nassib's "rule of 7s" is kind of unrealistic in that you can't count on getting a 10% return on investment 7 years in a row.

 

At least Nassib seems to be aware of the importance of trying to retain and grow the money he makes playing football.

 

As opposed to blowing it on Lamborghinis, houses, drugs, and women.

 

Wait a minute, that second approach sounds pretty good to me!

 

 

 

20 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Hues literally taking crucial , basic coaching strategy from Tyrod Taylor..  

Not that Tyrods opinion doesn't hold weight, it does , but the strategy in question was simply showing film of what he's trying to verbally communicate! 

 

That sounds like a wise , yet very obvious teaching method , Hue doesn't have a Clue. Lame Duck Coach.

 

 

Why he's there now though ?

Because he'll be the sacrificial lamb of a 4-6 win season. Leaving a young  team to Haley/Williams who both are sharks and smelled Hues blood in the water .. And if they have a CPL good drafts, will be a contender.

Yes!  Yes he is!  

 

 I was thinking the same thing during that little scene with Tyrod telling him what to do in terms of filming the guys slacking off and showing it to them in order to shame them and make them stop.

 

 

[Gigs]

1 hour ago, Fadingpain said:

Before the draft, there was some discussion about how some players will fail in the NFL once drafted, and yet it won't really be on the player himself.  I.E., more goes into a player's success than just the player, and if he is drafted by the wrong team/organization and is a bad fit or doesn't get the right coaching, he may fail, even though he may have succeeded elsewhere.

 

I think of that discussion when I think of Mayfield.  He seems like a guy who should be a successful, good, NFL QB...and yet his career may go sideways simply b/c he ended up in the wrong situation at the wrong time.

 

We'll find out.

 

 

Don't be so harsh on these guys.  At least Nassib is aware of the concept of interest.

 

Some of the players we saw in the first episode were clearly being introduced to the concept of interest for the first time.

 

It makes me sick to see these guys who allegedly attended college and some have probably even graduated!  They just aren't college material and pretending that they are b/c they are good at football disgusts me.

 

I agree with you though....the guy's point was that Nassib's "rule of 7s" is kind of unrealistic in that you can't count on getting a 10% return on investment 7 years in a row.

 

At least Nassib seems to be aware of the importance of trying to retain and grow the money he makes playing football.

 

As opposed to blowing it on Lamborghinis, houses, drugs, and women.

 

Wait a minute, that second approach sounds pretty good to me!

 

 

 

Yes!  Yes he is!  

 

 I was thinking the same thing during that little scene with Tyrod telling him what to do in terms of filming the guys slacking off and showing it to them in order to shame them and make them stop.

 

 

Dude, that’s the American education system. Nobody teaches finances in public schools. I was shown how to mail an envelope, not balance a check book. Get your head out of your ass

[GaryPinC]

5 hours ago, JaxBills said:

I refuse to believe it.  But, Cleveland has made a movie about a sports team activly trying to suck....  And it seems the same.  I know the players want to win, the coaches need to for there own sake.... So.... I don't know.  It hurts to watch.  On that note, I feel like Colman can revive his career with buffalo.

My son is a Browns fan, it's very painful. I just told him I'm sorry, until Haslem either removes his head from his rectum and/or sells the team, they're going to find new ways to suck.  I do like the moves Dorsey made but doubt Hue can pull it together.  They have enough talent to go 8-8 and maybe more IMO.  But how do you go 4-0 2017 preseason and then 0-16?  Gotta be the coaching.

[elroy16]

14 hours ago, Gigs said:

Dude, that’s the American education system. Nobody teaches finances in public schools. I was shown how to mail an envelope, not balance a check book. Get your head out of your ass

 

 

Exactly. This has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with our education system. I didn't know crap about interest or savings until my mom bribed me with $100 to read a book about compound interest and then she also opened up a roth IRA for me.

[BillsBytheBay]

2 hours ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

Exactly. This has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with our education system. I didn't know crap about interest or savings until my mom bribed me with $100 to read a book about compound interest and then she also opened up a roth IRA for me.

ALL problems like this start at home.  My parents taught my to balance my checkbook.  My parents had me put my first summer working pay in a CD.  Why pass the buck to schools for what should have been parented?

Edited August 17, 2018 by JaxBills

[elroy16]

1 hour ago, JaxBills said:

ALL problems like this start at home.  My parents taught my to balance my checkbook.  My parents had me put my first summer working pay in a CD.  Why pass the buck to schools for what should have been parented?

 

 

Kids are at school learning calculus and all sorts of other subjects that have little real world application except for teachers and a small number of fields. If instead they taught kids those kinds of lessons your parents taught you, it would benefit almost everyone as opposed to calculus which only helps a very small number of kids.

 

There's shop, cooking classes, and all sorts of other electives. There's plenty of time to teach kids how to balance their check book, understand what credit is, and why investing for retirement early is essential. 

 

 

Yes, since schools are not teaching kids these types of valuable lessons, parents should. You should be thankful your parents did, because a imagine a lot don't.