Am I the only one who has confidence in our WR's?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

The WR's have some talent. Benjamin can be a #1. Still young. Zay Jones entering his 2nd year. Kerley is a decent slot WR. Clay is a top 15 TE. McCoy one of the best receiving RB. 

 

So there is potential but a lot has to go right. 

 

...throw Riley's name into the hat as well.....think we have some QB's that can handle reads/progressions in <5 seconds to find these guys...sub 100 yd passing games and defining a "post" as a swing pass to a RB or a 4 yd out to a TE just won't cut it.....

[WideRightRevenge]

9 hours ago, QBorBust2018 said:

Worst WR corps in the league. This is the most homer thread of all time. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid 

 

Just got home from work .. so here are some of my favorite replies thus far .. Dallas Cowboys? San Francisco? Carolina .. to quote the infamous Chad Ocho Cinco ..  Child Please

 

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don’t understand how someone with eyesight could write this thread.

 

I'm cool with Stevie Wonder ... you must of thought Tyrod was awesome

 

8 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Kelvin Benjamin moved the chains on 3rd down with Cam until the cows came home. 

 

Zay had 158 catches his final year of college. 

 

They will both fare much better now that Taylor’s out of the equation.

 

 

 

Amen Brother

 

7 hours ago, mrags said:

I agree OP. The people that think this WR Corp will be the worst in the league are most likely the same idiots that thought Tyrod was a good QB. 

 

Another blind poster .. maybe a duet between me (Stevie Wonder) and Ray Charles (Mrags)

 

2 hours ago, THE SLAMMER said:

There are two kinds of people in this world, those who love Neil Diamond and those that don't....

 

 

 

Sweet Caroline is in the playlist.

 

Any more feedback???

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

Just got home from work .. so here are some of my favorite replies thus far .. Dallas Cowboys? San Francisco? Carolina .. to quote the infamous Chad Ocho Cinco ..  Child Please

 

 

I'm cool with Stevie Wonder ... you must of thought Tyrod was awesome

 

 

Amen Brother

 

 

Another blind poster .. maybe a duet between me (Stevie Wonder) and Ray Charles (Mrags)

 

 

Sweet Caroline is in the playlist.

 

Any more feedback???

I most definitely didn’t think Tyrod was awesome.  It’s been documented on this site.

[WideRightRevenge]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I most definitely didn’t think Tyrod was awesome.  It’s been documented on this site.

 

So can you judge a group of QB's if their QB throwing the ball was mediocre?

 

Look what Jimmy G did to the 49ers .. those aren't All pros on the outside .. though one is a former Bill ...

 

All this hate towards our WR's and we had a declining QB the last 3 years with a sound running game and decent OL ... should of been many more opportunities .. he just didn't go after them .. was more concerned about the turnover.

[Bing Bong]

they are so bad. Name be 5 teams with worse WRs.

12 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said:

The bills top receivers were Clay and McCoy

The Bills top skill players were Clay and McCoy. Who was Tyrod's favorite WR when Watkins was healthy? Who did he throw to when Watkins was hurt and Woods was his guy?

 

He threw to his best players. Guarantee he'd throw balls to Deonte Thompson, Zay, Holmes, in practice, and see them drop it, not battle for the ball and get a pick, or just not get open. Translate that to gamespeed and he's probably thinking presnap "there's a 10% chance deonte gets open, my second read is Zay wtf do I do. When is coach going to call O'Leary's number because I like him"

[ColoradoBills]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

As a whole I am not as down on our WR group as some because I also factor in

 

Clay and O'Leary - both excellent pass catchers and get open

We have RB's that also catch the ball well

 

 

7 hours ago, Logic said:

Totally agree about the TEs and RBs. 

When people evaluate the pass catching battery, they often fail to look at it as a whole. If you do that with the Bills, though, you see that Charles Clay, LeSean McCoy, Nick O'Leary (say what you will, he's a quality pass catcher), Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, and Jeremy Kerley represent a decent set of options. They're not going to light the world on fire and they're not going to be a top 10 unit in all likelihood, but the cupboard is not as bare as some people make it sound.
 

 

It probably deserves it's own thread but the TE situation is a little strange to me.

Does anyone think Daboll will use multiple TE formations often this year?

He is an ex-TE coach.  Jim Boras is a good TE and OL coach.

 

The strange thing is that all 6 TE's on the roster were with the Bill's last year.

None were cut/released and no others were picked up.

Could Daboll and Boras see some talent we haven't?

 

Charles Clay

Nick O'Leary

Logan Thomas

Khari Lee

Keith Towbridge - IR all last year

Jason Croom - PS

[BurpleBull]

12 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said:

Got to say .. getting tired of all the WR negativity ... who doesn't think the QB last year had any influence on this.  We had a ton of WR injuries last year, I have confidence in Benjamin in a contract year and think Zay Jones will show up this year and Kerley in the slot and Ray Ray and flyer of Foster UDFA from Alabama (not to mention Holmes & Streater - healthy)... I'll take that along with passers this year that can look beyond the first progression (hopefully) throw to windows with anticipation and actually make throws beyond 10 yards in greater frequency.  3 Years of declining QBR and yards per attempt doesn't help your WR's look good.

 

 

The bills top receivers were Clay and McCoy (dump off receptions) ... their targets ranked 73rd and 75th in the league .. really

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets/qualified/false/count/41

 

The Bills had 20 dropped passes last year .. 5 by Clay / 4 by McCoy .. so all the comments on stone hands Zay (and trust me I was disappointed in her performance last year) but there are plenty of videos out there of wide open.  Personally, I'm more concerned about OL .. but majority of what I see is blah blah blah on our WR's.

 

In looking at some rosters .. I'll take our guys versus what some teams have for sure in 2018.

 

 

 

Zay Jones and the health of Benjamin and Clay will be key to any success in the passing game.

 

I don't like not having an established speedster who can separate from defenders starting at WR. 

 

But I feel good about the backups.

 

I really think Austin Proehl will be the team's slot receiver of the future.

 

Maybe the Bills' version of Wes Welker.

 

Robert Foster has good size, speed, and ties to Daboll so there's that.

 

Maybe Brandon Reilly takes a step up.

 

I like the potential of the reserves more than the starters. 

 

Lastly I really hope Nick O' Leary or Logan Thomas can snatch the starting job from Clay.

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

It probably deserves it's own thread but the TE situation is a little strange to me.

Does anyone think Daboll will use multiple TE formations often this year?

He is an ex-TE coach.  Jim Boras is a good TE and OL coach.

 

The strange thing is that all 6 TE's on the roster were with the Bill's last year.

None were cut/released and no others were picked up.

Could Daboll and Boras see some talent we haven't?

 

Charles Clay

Nick O'Leary

Logan Thomas

Khari Lee

Keith Towbridge - IR all last year

Jason Croom - PS

I think Clay undoubtedly has the potential for a career year. He was open OFTEN the past few years and didn't get the ball for whatever reason. I won't get into that...

Nick O'Leary has quietly turned into a quality TE2. What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in intelligence, awareness, and soft hands.

Logan Thomas is entering a make or break year. He has the physical talent to be a dominant seam-stretching tight end, but the transition from quarterback to tight end is a difficult one. He's an interesting TE3, though, in that he's more purely athletic than a lot of team's TE1.

Khari Lee is strictly a block specialist. You need one of those on the roster, though.

I thought Croom showed some talent in camp and the preseason last year. I'll be interested to watch him this year.

I expect the Bills' TE position to be more than adequate this season. Going forward, I think they'd like to move on from Clay's big contract and chronically achy knees. Look for a big addition at this position next offseason.

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think Clay undoubtedly has the potential for a career year. He was open OFTEN the past few years and didn't get the ball for whatever reason. I won't get into that...

Nick O'Leary has quietly turned into a quality TE2. What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in intelligence, awareness, and soft hands.

Logan Thomas is entering a make or break year. He has the physical talent to be a dominant seam-stretching tight end, but the transition from quarterback to tight end is a difficult one. He's an interesting TE3, though, in that he's more purely athletic than a lot of team's TE1.

Khari Lee is strictly a block specialist. You need one of those on the roster, though.

I thought Croom showed some talent in camp and the preseason last year. I'll be interested to watch him this year.

I expect the Bills' TE position to be more than adequate this season. Going forward, I think they'd like to move on from Clay's big contract and chronically achy knees. Look for a big addition at this position next offseason.

 

I won't get into that either!

Thanks Logic, I couldn't remember anything about Lee, Croom or Towbridge from last year.

It seems Lee and Towbridge will battle for the blocking TE slot.

I will keep an ear open on how Logan Thomas fares in TC and Preseason along with Croon.

 

I was wondering if some TE + H-Back combination could be used to open the lanes for Shady and to work some play action stuff.

I sure hope Daboll throws some curves in the O compared to what we fans have been seeing last year.

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

I was wondering if some TE + H-Back combination could be used to open the lanes for Shady and to work some play action stuff.

I sure hope Daboll throws some curves in the O compared to what we fans have been seeing last year.

It's funny you mention that. My understanding is that the only tryout player they signed from a week ago was FB Zach Olstead, who is more of an H-Back. I wonder if Daboll is thinking the same thing you are!

[Bing Bong]

7 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

 

On the decline?  They're 26.  Matthews was playing with a rookie and Cam was hurt and had easily his worst season in the NFL.

 

As for Hogan and Woods...More Yards and touchdowns on less targets as #2 or 3 options in a better offense.  Goodwin with more targets and more varied targets at that.

 

It really is that simple.

 

 

What makes him a #2?  When healthy, he is a nice X receiver, which is what this team has desperately needed.  He might not be a number #1 in the sense that he will put up game breaking numbers, but he is a #1 in the sense that he will draw and can beat man coverage, allowing the other receivers to play off the line of scrimmage and be schemed open.  

The fact that his best year was 1003 yards rookie year with Cam. Cam, who threw receivers he liked, Steve Smith for 1400 knew when he had a #1. Kelvin can't beat man coverage at all, he can just catch contested balls, which is annoying outside of the redzone, or desperation heaves.

 

Cam didn't like his shiny new toy and threw to him less and less. Loe and behold, he loved Ted Ginn because he got wide freaking open even with like 5 TD drops. Cam likes McCaffrey because he gets open and makes plays after catch. Heck Cam liked Funchess more making KB a cheap trade away.

 

KB's alright but he's far and away our best WR, which is not good. Matthews was bad too. he was 5th on the Eagles depth chart.. probably because they saw Agholor and Jeffrey far outplaying him in practice. WRs with late round draft value are receivers that aren't making the depth chart. What steals for us!

 

Really simple? Hogan Woods and Goodwin are better than the recievers we have currently, so yeah if that's your point, pretty simple. Also note that Goodwin bulked up dramtically and looked like a Taylor Gabriel, Michael Thompson like beast in his play. He didn't look like that back then. Also note Hogan plays for a QB who thrives on slot receivers. Also note Woods was a heckuva player with the Bills anyway.

Edited May 18, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

So can you judge a group of QB's if their QB throwing the ball was mediocre?

 

Look what Jimmy G did to the 49ers .. those aren't All pros on the outside .. though one is a former Bill ...

 

All this hate towards our WR's and we had a declining QB the last 3 years with a sound running game and decent OL ... should of been many more opportunities .. he just didn't go after them .. was more concerned about the turnover.

Anyone that can’t judge a WR without the QB is clueless. When Josh Gordon led the league with Hoyer and Campbell throwing the ball was it tough to judge him? What about Hopkins with Savage? A good WR is a good WR whether Tom Brady is throwing him the ball or Tom Savage.

 

So many have stuck their heads in the sand or made excuses for the Bills receivers. Beane tried to trade back up for Christian Kirk. He knows that the group isn’t good. That’s fine. This wasn’t an overnight rebuild. We don’t need to pretend though. Let’s say what it is, the Bills receivers are bad. No one will argue with that.

[Bing Bong]

 

Our best receivers are 1. KB, 2. Shady 3. Clay 4. O'Leary. 

 

So our best wideouts are KB and... scrubs.

47 minutes ago, Logic said:

Nick O'Leary has quietly turned into a quality TE2. What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in intelligence, awareness, and soft hands.

Nick O'leary is very underrated at TBD. I'd try him at wideout he'd easily be our #2

 

TBD rarely comes to a consensus in the offseason so it's pretty telling that 80% of TBD thinks we have poor WRs

[WideRightRevenge]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Anyone that can’t judge a WR without the QB is clueless. When Josh Gordon led the league with Hoyer and Campbell throwing the ball was it tough to judge him? What about Hopkins with Savage? A good WR is a good WR whether Tom Brady is throwing him the ball or Tom Savage.

 

So many have stuck their heads in the sand or made excuses for the Bills receivers. Beane tried to trade back up for Christian Kirk. He knows that the group isn’t good. That’s fine. This wasn’t an overnight rebuild. We don’t need to pretend though. Let’s say what it is, the Bills receivers are bad. No one will argue with that.

 

Wow ... that's a leap ... my point of my comment and your reply .. do any of the current SF wideouts compare to Josh Gordon or Hopkins in your opinion Kirby  Personally, I think not ... Jimmy G . .made mid tier WR perform when he took over  ... you go on the tangent to pulling two stud WRs and their weak QBs .. that's the counter argument to my point ... I agree STUD WRs can outplay their weak QBs ... we don't have Stud WRs and my post never said that ... but we have servicable WRs .. and now hopefully have a QB that can get them the ball on a more regular basis than our previous QB

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, WideRightRevenge said:

 

Wow ... that's a leap ... my point of my comment and your reply .. do any of the current SF wideouts compare to Josh Gordon or Hopkins in your opinion Kirby  Personally, I think not ... Jimmy G . .made mid tier WR perform when he took over  ... you go on the tangent to pulling two stud WRs and their weak QBs .. that's the counter argument to my point ... I agree STUD WRs can outplay their weak QBs ... we don't have Stud WRs and my post never said that ... but we have servicable WRs .. and now hopefully have a QB that can get them the ball on a more regular basis than our previous QB

It’s not a leap. Good receivers will be good, decent receivers decent, and bad receivers bad. The Hogan and Woods examples are good ones. Their production wasn’t terribly different once they left the Bills. 

 

That was was pretty much my point. We make excuses for the guys that we have. They were not good. There is a reason that Jordan Matthews went from our “#1” to a $1M deal. The league spoke pretty loudly on the player. Zay was horrendous. I’m not ready to give up on him but he was the lowest graded WR in the league. That’s a guy that some are “confident in.” He May improve but there’s no reason to be confident. Benjamin is always hurt and is a #2. Holmes, Kerley and Streater are guys that have kicked around. McCloud, Proehl, Reilly and Dupree are young late round / undrafted guys. 

 

I just dont don’t know how anyone can look at that group and be fine with it? The GM wasn’t even fine with it!! Again, this is a multi-year rebuild. At, or near, the top of the list of needs is a #1 WR. The Bills don’t need bodies, they need “a guy.” It’s harder to find that than it is 3 guys to fill out the depth chart. If they get a top guy the group will be fine. That’s a year away though. 

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Anyone that can’t judge a WR without the QB is clueless. When Josh Gordon led the league with Hoyer and Campbell throwing the ball was it tough to judge him? What about Hopkins with Savage? A good WR is a good WR whether Tom Brady is throwing him the ball or Tom Savage.

 

So many have stuck their heads in the sand or made excuses for the Bills receivers. Beane tried to trade back up for Christian Kirk. He knows that the group isn’t good. That’s fine. This wasn’t an overnight rebuild. We don’t need to pretend though. Let’s say what it is, the Bills receivers are bad. No one will argue with that.

 

This is where you're wrong - we're at the point in the offseason when the blind optimism has started to reach a fever pitch... we're a Superbowl contender until the third week of September when reality starts to set in, and more and more posters start pretending they've understood all along that this wasn't a one-year fix.  But now?  In May?  Forget about it.

 

Anyhow wrt receivers, they might try to get lucky with someone like Demaryius Thomas being a late cut/add.  Otherwise it's a BRUTAL group.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

This is where you're wrong - we're at the point in the offseason when the blind optimism has started to reach a fever pitch... we're a Superbowl contender until the third week of September when reality starts to set in, and more and more posters start pretending they've understood all along that this wasn't a one-year fix.  But now?  In May?  Forget about it.

 

Anyhow wrt receivers, they might try to get lucky with someone like Demaryius Thomas being a late cut/add.  Otherwise it's a BRUTAL group.

I guess that you are right. I just don’t see any reason to be doom and gloom or sunshine and rainbows. It’s okay to just call it what it is. The Bills potentially have a great secondary and a terrible WR group. It’s okay to believe that some things are bad and some good. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 hours ago, billspro said:

It was amazing to see what Woods could do with competent QB play. 

As a duo, Woods and Watkins produced almost identically per game to their previous years here. The only difference was their roles flipped. And yes, it's fair to look at them as a duo because when they're on the field on any given play only 1 of them can get the ball thrown to them.

 

Let's look at 2015 (their first year with Tyrod) vs 2017 (their first year with Goff)

2015:

27 Combined Games (13 for Watkins, 14 for Woods)

176 Targets (96 for Watkins, 80 for Woods)

107 Catches (60 for Watkins, 47 for Woods)

1,599 Yards (1,047 for Watkins, 552 for Woods)

12 TDs (9 for Watkins, 3 for Woods)

 

2017:

27 Combined Games (15 for Watkins, 12 for Woods)

155 Targets (85 for Woods, 70 for Watkins)

95 Catches (56 for Woods, 39 for Watkins)

1,374 Yards (781 for Woods, 593 for Watkins)

13 TDs (8 for Watkins, 5 for Woods)

 

So was it really that amazing that in the same number of combined games played the duo got 12 fewer catches for 225 fewer yards, but 1 more TD?

Edited May 18, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13
Added Stats

[billsredneck1]

23 hours ago, QBorBust2018 said:

Worst WR corps in the league. This is the most homer thread of all time. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid 

well i think it depends on how you use these guys. brady would make them stars.

i fully expect to see a stacked box nonstop to start the season.  in that case i would make my bread and butter with the 2 te sets with kb and zay on the outside.

 

they can do a lot of quick timing throws on those 10-20 yd. shots or hit shady in the flat. toss the deep ball once in a while and when we start to back them off a little and force the lbs to stay back in coverage, uncork shady and throw some fly routes.

 

this will help us steal a couple of underdog games early such as balt., la , gb or minny. if we can get 2 out those 4 we are gonna be in great shape. by the way, if they establish that starting ol soon, they will be in better shape than last year at this time.

 

more kool aid please.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

well i think it depends on how you use these guys. brady would make them stars.

i fully expect to see a stacked box nonstop to start the season.  in that case i would make my bread and butter with the 2 te sets with kb and zay on the outside.

 

they can do a lot of quick timing throws on those 10-20 yd. shots or hit shady in the flat. toss the deep ball once in a while and when we start to back them off a little and force the lbs to stay back in coverage, uncork shady and throw some fly routes.

 

this will help us steal a couple of underdog games early such as balt., la , gb or minny. if we can get 2 out those 4 we are gonna be in great shape. by the way, if they establish that starting ol soon, they will be in better shape than last year at this time.

 

more kool aid please.

Did he make Hogan a star? What about Chandler? Hogan was pretty similar and Chandler took a big step back. Guys are who they are!!

 

I love the optimism but just don’t see the offense being very good. You casually throw out “toss the deep ball once in a while.” Who is the target? Who is the defense concerned about getting over the top? Are they keeping safeties away from the LOS because of the threat of Rod Streater?

 

Every defensive coordinator will focus on Shady 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc... Shady is great. He is running behind a worse OL and has no one to take the pressure off of him in the pass game. He is the only “difference maker.” Hopefully Daboll is a big step up from Rico. I expect that to be the case.

 

If Allen develops none of this will matter. There aren’t a ton of guys on that offense that are core pieces moving forward. I’d say that Dawkins and Allen are. It’s possible that Zay and maybe another young OL develop. In general though we are going to see turnover on offense like we have on defense over the last few seasons. This was a long-term plan.