John from Riverside Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 As a whole I am not as down on our WR group as some because I also factor in Clay and O'Leary - both excellent pass catchers and get open We have RB's that also catch the ball well We are just missing that speed burner guy that can get behind a defense that would fully utilize the fact that we know have a QB with Elite arm strength.....that kind of big play ability would really come in handy. 1 minute ago, Logic said: It's funny. In my opinion, the Bills are only a #1 receiver away from having a good receiving corps. If next year they are able to draft or sign an explosive, athletic, #1 caliber receiver, it will have the following effect: Kelvin Benjamin slides to the more fitting #2 role. Zay Jones moves to the slot, where everyone knows he should be to begin with. That's a (theoretically) good starting trio right there. Explosive #1 guy, size guy at #2, and Jones working from the slot. Then you have depth guys like McCloud or Proehl or Reilly or whomever. That being said, since a bona fide #1 receiver isn't walking through the doors of One Bills Drive any time soon, I do have some degree of confidence in the "WR by committee" approach for a year, especially in the Erhardt-Perkins offense. I think Benjamin, Jones, Kerley, Holmes, and some combination of the youngsters can hold things down for a year. You have to remember that LeSean McCoy and Charles Clay will likely be among the top three pass catchers on the team this year any way. Going forward, though, it's clear that the entire offense -- receivers, O-line, running backs, tight ends -- needs to be heavily addressed next offseason. I have faith that it will happen. I agree with you on Zay...it seems to me like we actually have too many slot guys right now.... 1
BillnutinHouston Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: The Bills were dead last in the NFL last year with passes and yards thrown to receivers. We're talking 96 YPG. I wonder what Mike Schopp would say about this stat. Other than attempting to belittle you for clogging up his airspace by saying hello at the beginning of your call.
billspro Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said: Got to say .. getting tired of all the WR negativity ... who doesn't think the QB last year had any influence on this. We had a ton of WR injuries last year, I have confidence in Benjamin in a contract year and think Zay Jones will show up this year and Kerley in the slot and Ray Ray and flyer of Foster UDFA from Alabama (not to mention Holmes & Streater - healthy)... I'll take that along with passers this year that can look beyond the first progression (hopefully) throw to windows with anticipation and actually make throws beyond 10 yards in greater frequency. 3 Years of declining QBR and yards per attempt doesn't help your WR's look good. The bills top receivers were Clay and McCoy (dump off receptions) ... their targets ranked 73rd and 75th in the league .. really http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets/qualified/false/count/41 The Bills had 20 dropped passes last year .. 5 by Clay / 4 by McCoy .. so all the comments on stone hands Zay (and trust me I was disappointed in her performance last year) but there are plenty of videos out there of wide open. Personally, I'm more concerned about OL .. but majority of what I see is blah blah blah on our WR's. In looking at some rosters .. I'll take our guys versus what some teams have for sure in 2018. That video is tough to watch, Tyrod has two WRs wide open on a game winning drive and doesn't pull the trigger. I hope we find a competent passing game next year.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Yes OP- you are the only one. Now if Zays battle for Jesus turned into an off season holy war on catching footballs, and KBenj’s surgery’s brought his 40 time under 6 seconds then I might be reeled in. Edited May 17, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
Logic Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: As a whole I am not as down on our WR group as some because I also factor in Clay and O'Leary - both excellent pass catchers and get open We have RB's that also catch the ball well We are just missing that speed burner guy that can get behind a defense that would fully utilize the fact that we know have a QB with Elite arm strength.....that kind of big play ability would really come in handy. I agree with you on Zay...it seems to me like we actually have too many slot guys right now.... Totally agree about the TEs and RBs. When people evaluate the pass catching battery, they often fail to look at it as a whole. If you do that with the Bills, though, you see that Charles Clay, LeSean McCoy, Nick O'Leary (say what you will, he's a quality pass catcher), Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, and Jeremy Kerley represent a decent set of options. They're not going to light the world on fire and they're not going to be a top 10 unit in all likelihood, but the cupboard is not as bare as some people make it sound. As to the slot receivers thing...yeah...it's undeniable at this point. Competing for time in the slot, we have Jones, Kerley, Proehl, McCloud, Reilly, and Kaelin Clay. Six slot guys. On the outside, though? Just Benjamin, Holmes, Robert Foster, and Malachi Dupre. Not exactly a murderer's row. Not sure what this staff's fascination with undersized slot receivers is. Furthermore, if there's one thing that worries me about the McBeane duo, it's their competence in building a receiving corps. A quick peak at Carolina's WRs over the years does not add any confidence in this regard. Edited May 17, 2018 by Logic
HappyDays Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: When your QB play is THAT terrible, there's really no way to assess what what the Bills have or don't have. It must be impossible for college and pro scouts to evaluate WRs. So many of them play with bad QBs. I wonder how these scouts manage to rank them?
PromoTheRobot Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 It's pretty hard to feel confident. But I'm open to surprises.
Rob's House Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said: Got to say .. getting tired of all the WR negativity ... who doesn't think the QB last year had any influence on this. We had a ton of WR injuries last year, I have confidence in Benjamin in a contract year and think Zay Jones will show up this year and Kerley in the slot and Ray Ray and flyer of Foster UDFA from Alabama (not to mention Holmes & Streater - healthy)... I'll take that along with passers this year that can look beyond the first progression (hopefully) throw to windows with anticipation and actually make throws beyond 10 yards in greater frequency. 3 Years of declining QBR and yards per attempt doesn't help your WR's look good. I like your optimism, but I do think we have one of the weaker receiving units in the league. That said, I do think they're better than most are giving them credit for. With Benjamin, Clay, and McCoy we have 3 very good receiving outlets. If at least one other guy steps up as a serviceable option we should be ok. My biggest concern is lack of depth. We're an injury or two away from being really bad in that department, and some of these guys don't have the best track record with staying healthy.
ngbills Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, billspro said: That video is tough to watch, Tyrod has two WRs wide open on a game winning drive and doesn't pull the trigger. I hope we find a competent passing game next year. Wide open? Dont really see it that way. Even so, pick one play and say this shows our wr's are good? Here are highlights. More than one play, so does this mean Tyrod was really a good qb?
NoSaint Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 If everyone both stays healthy and plays up to their potential they could be an average group. If each guy plays to about average, and we see some injuries (you know, a normal year) it’s a bad group
ddaryl Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 I strongly believe that our WR talent will directly correlate with the QB positions effectiveness in getting them the ball.
Mikey152 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin were more productive prior to coming to Buffalo, and Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods were more productive after leaving. I think it is safe to say that QB play and offensive philosophy were a contributing factor to the current impression most fans have regarding our WR core. As for slot guy vs. outside guy...flanker and slot aren't all that different, functionally. Most guys that can play slot can play flanker just fine, and clearly Benjamin is our primary Split End (if we don't split a second TE). The mix will be fine. Edited May 17, 2018 by Mikey152
ngbills Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin were more productive prior to coming to Buffalo, and Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods were more productive after leaving. I think it is safe to say that QB play and offensive philosophy were a contributing factor to the current impression most fans have regarding our WR core. As for slot guy vs. outside guy...flanker and slot aren't all that different, functionally. Most guys that can play slot can play flanker just fine, and clearly Benjamin is our primary Split End (if we don't split a second TE). The mix will be fine. Not that simple. Matthews and Benjamin were both nagged by injuries here and both were clearly on the decline. Go look at the game logs for them. There is like 2 100 yd games between them in the last season prior to coming here. Look at Hogan and Woods number. Really not that different from here. Woods 65, 47 and 51 catches the last 3 years in Buffalo and 56 this year. Hogan was 41 and 36 here and 38 and 34 there. Would not call these wow numbers after leaving. Goodwin never really got a shot or put it together here. In 2016 he started getting more involved and was gone the next year. Who knows what he could have done if he was a bill. Bills could have used him as a deep threat. Could he have caught 50 balls? Maybe...
Misterbluesky Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Soda Popinski said: I need to see it before i can have confidence in it. Unproven QB with unproven WRs and an unproven OL. We have a number two guy in KB....that's it.
Soda Popinski Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, Misterbluesky said: We have a number two guy in KB....that's it. But he's a proven #2 1
Mikey152 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, ngbills said: Not that simple. Matthews and Benjamin were both nagged by injuries here and both were clearly on the decline. Go look at the game logs for them. There is like 2 100 yd games between them in the last season prior to coming here. Look at Hogan and Woods number. Really not that different from here. Woods 65, 47 and 51 catches the last 3 years in Buffalo and 56 this year. Hogan was 41 and 36 here and 38 and 34 there. Would not call these wow numbers after leaving. Goodwin never really got a shot or put it together here. In 2016 he started getting more involved and was gone the next year. Who knows what he could have done if he was a bill. Bills could have used him as a deep threat. Could he have caught 50 balls? Maybe... On the decline? They're 26. Matthews was playing with a rookie and Cam was hurt and had easily his worst season in the NFL. As for Hogan and Woods...More Yards and touchdowns on less targets as #2 or 3 options in a better offense. Goodwin with more targets and more varied targets at that. It really is that simple. 7 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: We have a number two guy in KB....that's it. What makes him a #2? When healthy, he is a nice X receiver, which is what this team has desperately needed. He might not be a number #1 in the sense that he will put up game breaking numbers, but he is a #1 in the sense that he will draw and can beat man coverage, allowing the other receivers to play off the line of scrimmage and be schemed open.
ngbills Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Mikey152 said: On the decline? They're 26. Matthews was playing with a rookie and Cam was hurt and had easily his worst season in the NFL. As for Hogan and Woods...More Yards and touchdowns on less targets as #2 or 3 options in a better offense. Goodwin with more targets and more varied targets at that. It really is that simple. What makes him a #2? When healthy, he is a nice X receiver, which is what this team has desperately needed. He might not be a number #1 in the sense that he will put up game breaking numbers, but he is a #1 in the sense that he will draw and can beat man coverage, allowing the other receivers to play off the line of scrimmage and be schemed open. Their numbers have been down. Not just with the Bills but prior to joining them. It is not all about age. Could be injuries having a long term effect, drive, who knows what. But fact is - look at the stats. They were on the decline. Then the teams got rid of them. Then both played through injuries and still continued to post declining stats. That is the reality. It was not because they had bad QB play. Again, Hogan and Woods. Slightly better in offenses much more centered around throwing the ball. Not night and day different. Goodwin - more targets, more playing time. Until 2016 he barely saw the field as a WR. He was improving and we did not get see him as a Bill in 2017. Jordan Matthews, Kelvin Benjamin, Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods Would that be an impressive group of WR? 1
HOUSE Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 There are two kinds of people in this world, those who love Neil Diamond and those that don't....
billspro Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, ngbills said: Wide open? Dont really see it that way. Even so, pick one play and say this shows our wr's are good? Here are highlights. More than one play, so does this mean Tyrod was really a good qb? Tyrod does not throw with anticipation often enough, it has been a problem for 3 years. That was not a one play thing. 3 hours ago, Mikey152 said: Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin were more productive prior to coming to Buffalo, and Chris Hogan, Marquise Goodwin, and Robert Woods were more productive after leaving. I think it is safe to say that QB play and offensive philosophy were a contributing factor to the current impression most fans have regarding our WR core. As for slot guy vs. outside guy...flanker and slot aren't all that different, functionally. Most guys that can play slot can play flanker just fine, and clearly Benjamin is our primary Split End (if we don't split a second TE). The mix will be fine. It was amazing to see what Woods could do with competent QB play.
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