Sky Diver Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think this is a fair assessment. The OL and WR are the big questionmarks. AJ Green is one amazing dude at WR. Too bad we took the dud Dareus. 2
Rebel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said: You’re sleeping with AJ? Does His wife know? Look I know Dalton is a hero in Buffalo but to say he is a quintessential franchise QB is misleading. The fact that AJ could not unseat him suggests that that McCarron really is a possible strong backup QB. There is nothing really in his history that says he is going to take that huge leap forward in his career. To be fair Mccarron was never even given the chance to unseat him. The Bengals looked at Dalton as their starter and said they would have been disrespecting him by giving Mccarron 1st team reps n such...Grappolo was never given an opportunity to start either doesn't mean he isnt a capable NFL QB. 2
JohnC Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No splinters. Aluminum. You have to give me some leeway. I'm old school. There is a cautionary tale to be considered. Once the aluminum benches freeze there is a tendency for derrieres to stick to them. Getting back on topic one of the more intriguing issues to follow this season is how Josh Allen is going to be handled. It's my guess that the determining factor is not what the other qbs do so much as what Allen is capable of handling. I see a Mahomes type situation materializing where once the prospect demonstrates that he can handle the position he will be sent to the huddle.
Mat68 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Tebow won awards primarily on his ability to run, McCarron won awards based on his ability to pass. Pocket passers are far more likely to have NFL success than running quarterbacks. Therefore, I don not think it is a fair comparison. The accurate comparison is Ken Dorsey. Both played at huge programs at a time you could argue each programs peaks. At the end of the day look at the investment. Aj MCcarron is guaranteed nothing more than so-so back up Qb money. Buffalo trade two seconds to move up 5 picks in the draft for Allen. Everyone agrees the future is Allen right? Now in terms of the competition. In my opinion Mccarron is going to have to play near perfect to hold off Allen. Allen can make the chunk plays and wow plays that Mccarron can not. If its close you go with the rookie and get him as much experience as possible so he can learn and grow so the future can come sooner. There is a reason Vegas believes Allen will play the most games. There is a reason Allen has the third highest probability to win ROY. Thinking Allen is going to play is not an indictment of Mccaron, its human nature and sports in general to go with the young more talented guy over the veteran. Edited May 17, 2018 by Mat68
Sky Diver Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mat68 said: The accurate comparison is Ken Dorsey. Both played at huge programs at a time you could argue each programs peaks. At the end of the day look at the investment. Aj MCcarron is guaranteed nothing more than so-so back up Qb money. Buffalo trade two seconds to move up 5 picks in the draft for Allen. Everyone agrees the future is Allen right? Now in terms of the competition. In my opinion Mccarron is going to have to play near perfect to hold off Allen. Allen can make the chunk plays and wow plays that Mccarron can not. If its close you go with the rookie and get him as much experience as possible so he can learn and grow so the future can come sooner. There is a reason Vegas believes Allen will play the most games. There is a reason Allen has the third highest probability to win ROY. Thinking Allen is going to play is not an indictment of Mccaron, its human nature and sports in general to go with the young more talented guy over the veteran. I agree.
SouthNYfan Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: So, the same stuff different day. Many people here claim their knowledge comes from watching college game film and that makes them believe they know which QB will be a success or failure. It's all conjecture. I'll say it again. If these people are so great at evaluating talent, they would be working in the NFL or on a sports show. I'd give a guy who won 2 of 4 games in his sophomore season better odds of reaching 8 wins in 2018. Lets not overlook real NFL games AJ played and not forget to mention that of those two losses - 1 was in OT against the SB winning Bronco's and their great defense and 1 was in a playoff game against the Steelers where AL had the Bengals in the lead going in for the clincher when With 1 minute and 30 seconds left on the clock and a 1 point lead his RB fumbled the ball at the Steelers 9 yard line. Then thanks to two consecutive 15-yard penalties, one on linebacker Vontaze Burfictand, the other on Adam Jonesthe Steelers ended up in FG range to score with 14 seconds on the clock. We have all heard how some of the Bills close Losses with a the former QB were and how much credit he was given for tossing 180 ypg, yet here we see people giving a young QB little to no faith after being "nearly" 4-0 while tossing 180 ypg. It's not hard to see the hypocrisy here, not one bit. Bengals had a very good ranked defense that year. He has a stacked offense with Bernard, AJ green, mahammad Sanu, eifert, and a good line. Our best wr would be maybe #3 on that team Shady is better than Bernard obv, but that year Bernard was very good Eifert is a much better receiver than Clay The oline is a huge ?? . Most likely is worse than the Bengals oline that year. Defense we would be happy to equal the #2 in points and #11 in total yards from the 2015 Bengals. That's why I don't think he will hit 8 wins. I see 4-6.
Sky Diver Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Bengals had a very good ranked defense that year. He has a stacked offense with Bernard, AJ green, mahammad Sanu, eifert, and a good line. Our best wr would be maybe #3 on that team Shady is better than Bernard obv, but that year Bernard was very good Eifert is a much better receiver than Clay The oline is a huge ?? . Most likely is worse than the Bengals oline that year. Defense we would be happy to equal the #2 in points and #11 in total yards from the 2015 Bengals. That's why I don't think he will hit 8 wins. I see 4-6. Was the Bengals O-Line really that good? They recently fired their OL coach who had been with the team for 23 years.
Royale with Cheese Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 I'm not confident in McCaron but at the same time not unconfident either. Does that make sense to anyone else?
hondo in seattle Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) I'll be happy if either of these guys ends up productive this year. AJ did some good things in his 4 NFL starts. But overall he was far less productive running that Bengal offense than Dalton was. Allen did some good things in college. But the defenses he faced in college are nothing like the defenses the Bills will face this year. Allen will really need to step up his game. I'm hoping for the best but I just don't see the Bills having a very productive passing game this year. Statistically, it'll probably look like last year except with more turnovers. Here's what excites me, though. Tyrod was a proven mediocrity and the Bills decided they wanted more. So they brought in McCarron who may not have yet reached his NFL ceiling and drafted a boom/bust rookie. Under the circumstances, we couldn't have asked for more. If you include Peterman, we just need 1 of these 3 to prove their doubters wrong. Edited May 17, 2018 by hondo in seattle
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I thought you were making a joke. The only way I want Allen to sit is if either (a) he shows he's not ready in TC or preseason; or (b) the QB in front of him is playing at a high level. Sitting and "learning" behind mediocrity isn't going to help anyone. I have a feeling it's going to be obvious in training camp that Allen is head and shoulders (literally and figuratively) above the other QBs on the roster. So here is where I have unaddressed curiousity. Several have expressed this opinion, so not simply intending to pick on you. A number of NFL pundits, generally considered to be knowledgeable, have expressed the view that Allen is a "high level prospect" who needs to sit and learn for a season, solidifying changes to his mechanics (footwork) and learning to recognize the complexities of an NFL defense on film and master an NFL offense. So in your viewpoint (and the viewpoint of others expressing this view) are these guys just ignorant, or mistaken, or ????
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Was the Bengals O-Line really that good? They recently fired their OL coach who had been with the team for 23 years. Sacks obviously aren't the only measure, but Dalton was sacked 20 times in this 12 full games (4.9%). That's good for the 11th best sack% among QBs with at least 10 starts in 2015.
42Knuck Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 14 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: Watched all his games. He's not impressive at all. Then it's settled. Cut him.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Backups in the NFL get very little playing time with the 1st team offense. When a starter goes down to injury the game plan for the backup is to play conservative, no turnovers and try and win games. When Andy Dalton went down with a injury McCarron came in and did exactly what he was supposed to do. McCarron won games and got the Bengals into the playoffs. With McCarron at QB the Bengals should've beaten the Steelers in a playoff game, he is more than ready to be a quality QB in the NFL. In the end I am very excited about our QB situation. We have a QB in McCarron that can take a talented offense to the playoffs and he will help the young QB's on the roster. I don't think I have ever been more excited about our QB situation.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Was the Bengals O-Line really that good? They recently fired their OL coach who had been with the team for 23 years. Good question and fair question. In 2015 they were 8th in the league in sacks. So yeah, in 2015 they were good. Dalton doesn't have the quickest decision making or release and they pretty much kept him clean all season, and did pretty well by AJ, too. Dalton got hurt trying to play LB after he threw a pick, not from any OL deficiency. 2016 and 2017, I think 25th and 19th. They lost their pro-bowl left tackle in 2016 and replaced him with the guy who was not "all that and a bag of chips" on the RT side in 2016. Turnover on RG guard, also. So 3/5 OL changed or moved last year and it was fugly. Then Bodine dropping off. I think firing the OL coach has most to do with confirming Bill Lazor as OC and him wanting new staff/maybe changes in the scheme. But it could just be scapegoating for "meh" player personnel decisions and failure to invest enough draft/FA capitol in the OL.
Sky Diver Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Sacks obviously aren't the only measure, but Dalton was sacked 20 times in this 12 full games (4.9%). That's good for the 11th best sack% among QBs with at least 10 starts in 2015. So bottom of the top 1/3. 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Good question and fair question. In 2015 they were 8th in the league in sacks. So yeah, in 2015 they were good. Dalton doesn't have the quickest decision making or release and they pretty much kept him clean all season, and did pretty well by AJ, too. Dalton got hurt trying to play LB after he threw a pick, not from any OL deficiency. 2016 and 2017, I think 25th and 19th. They lost their pro-bowl left tackle in 2016 and replaced him with the guy who was not "all that and a bag of chips" on the RT side in 2016. Turnover on RG guard, also. So 3/5 OL changed or moved last year and it was fugly. Then Bodine dropping off. I think firing the OL coach has most to do with confirming Bill Lazor as OC and him wanting new staff/maybe changes in the scheme. But it could just be scapegoating for "meh" player personnel decisions and failure to invest enough draft/FA capitol in the OL. As an aside, the OL coach that was fired was a HS classmate. He was a good guy.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Sky Diver said: Too bad we took the dud Dareus. I personally had a thing for JJ Watt that draft, but to give Dareus his propers, he did have some "best DL in the NFL, period" seasons. He just lacked that lasting passion for football, or maybe Buffalo was an environment that couldn't inspire it in him.
DC Tom Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I thought you were making a joke. The only way I want Allen to sit is if either (a) he shows he's not ready in TC or preseason; or (b) the QB in front of him is playing at a high level. Sitting and "learning" behind mediocrity isn't going to help anyone. I have a feeling it's going to be obvious in training camp that Allen is head and shoulders (literally and figuratively) above the other QBs on the roster. Not joking. 20 years of watching this team put QBs in "sink or swim" situations and breaking them psychologically. I'd rather not see it happen again just for the same of hoping their rookie QB is ready to leave the kiddie pool.
Royale with Cheese Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I personally had a thing for JJ Watt that draft, but to give Dareus his propers, he did have some "best DL in the NFL, period" moments. He just lacked that lasting passion for football, or maybe Buffalo was an environment that couldn't inspire it in him. I just think he's a guy that was motivated by money and got it so the motivation fizzles out. That's what one of the WGR guys said they heard about Cordy Glenn. I used to train with an ex-NFL player a few years ago who actually had a FA visit in Buffalo. I won't mention his name here but if you want to PM me....I can tell you who it is. He told me that does happen a lot in the NFL. Dude gets his money, loses motivation. This guy used to stay after practice to get more work in, used to spend more time in the film room, used to come in on off days, used to eat better, used to get the right amount of sleep etc..... once they got that money, it stopped.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I personally had a thing for JJ Watt that draft, but to give Dareus his propers, he did have some "best DL in the NFL, period" seasons. He just lacked that lasting passion for football, or maybe Buffalo was an environment that couldn't inspire it in him. he's a young man with a new team and environment. he may not see a 10 sack season again but he will be force on that DL for the jags for the next few years. other side of the coin is what others think and believe he's been paid and therefore lost his motivation. I disagree.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Bengals had a very good ranked defense that year. He has a stacked offense with Bernard, AJ green, mahammad Sanu, eifert, and a good line. Our best wr would be maybe #3 on that team Shady is better than Bernard obv, but that year Bernard was very good Eifert is a much better receiver than Clay The oline is a huge ?? . Most likely is worse than the Bengals oline that year. Defense we would be happy to equal the #2 in points and #11 in total yards from the 2015 Bengals. That's why I don't think he will hit 8 wins. I see 4-6. I'm sticking with my assumption of KISS and they gave AJ an offense he could work with and not make hi do more than he was capable for a guy with ZERO starts. FWIW in 2015 TT had talented group of guys to throw too.
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