[Vague Title]Great Scott !! Why is He Always to Blame ??

[blacklabel]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

No ****, Mr. Wizard.  I was mocking the whole "this play cost us the game" argument.  Now have another drink.

 

The inclusion of "haha" at the end of that sentence indicates I understood the mockery. Now get the !@#$ out of my lab, Thomas.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

The inclusion of "haha" at the end of that sentence indicates I understood the mockery. Now get the !@#$ out of my lab, Thomas.

 

The inclusion of everything else in your post indicates you don't even understand the concept of mockery.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

[eball]

This thread has made me sad.

[Kelly the Dog]

Perhaps because out of the other 100+ plays in the game exactly zero of them can definitively be said of: "If he would have made the play, we would have won." None of them. Zero. Nada. Zilch. But if he would have made the kick, we would have won. Fact. 

[metzelaars_lives]

25 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

The inclusion of everything else in your post indicates you don't even understand the concept of mockery.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Are you really still going with "retard" in 2018?

Edited May 16, 2018 by metzelaars_lives

[KD in CA]

58 minutes ago, phypon said:

 

Actually it was Hostetler's hands that cost us the game.  He was a QB with big hands, otherwise fumble and TD.

 

So, yup, Hostetler's hands  

 

Nope, it was Phil Simms' foot.  If Simms doesn't hurt his foot in December against the Bills, he's playing QB and no way does he hold onto that ball.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Jim Kelly trying to be the hero cost the Bills the game.

 

That’s what it looked like to me.....  Give Thurman the ball and we win that game. 

[Fadingpain]

I simply don't have the emotional reserves to re-hash that game.

I have never viewed a replay of it, only saw it live once.

 

Don't really want to discuss it in detail.

The pain hasn't faded! 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Fadingpain

[The Red King]

The fans did not turn on Norwood.  In fact, when the team returned home after the game, the fans that were waiting started cheering "We want Scott!".  And the media didn't actually blame Scott for the loss.  It's just "Wide Right" is a wonderfully tragic little clip that the media couldn't help but show it over and over.  It tugs at the heartstrings far more then a clip of Buffalo not running the ball with just two defenders on the line.  And the media is all about sensationalism.  Always has been, always will be.

 

Marv's teams had always struggled with in-game adjustments, and it came back to bite them in XXV.

[ddaryl]

I always thought our Defense over pursued almost evey run play and allowed cut back lanes for big gains that did us in.

 

If the D played its lanes better it never comes down to the FG

[Royale with Cheese]

I was 9 years old when Thurman fumbled twice against the Redskins.  I went to school the next day and as I walked in, one of my friends said "Hey, did you hear Thurman Thomas tried to kill himself?  He failed because he fumbled the gun".

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, The Red King said:

The fans did not turn on Norwood.  In fact, when the team returned home after the game, the fans that were waiting started cheering "We want Scott!".  And the media didn't actually blame Scott for the loss.  It's just "Wide Right" is a wonderfully tragic little clip that the media couldn't help but show it over and over.  It tugs at the heartstrings far more then a clip of Buffalo not running the ball with just two defenders on the line.  And the media is all about sensationalism.  Always has been, always will be.

 

Marv's teams had always struggled with in-game adjustments, and it came back to bite them in XXV.

 

It's also one of those failures that, in failing, is glorious on its own.

 

Think about it...without looking it up, who was the game MVP?  Who was blocking Bruce Smith?  Who were the safeties that kept hammering Reed over the middle?  

 

And who was the kicker on the final play of the game?  

[SDS]

[This is an automated response]As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A better title will help the community find information faster and make your topic more likely to be read. The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.Thank you.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, T master said:

With the talk of the Bills retiring Thurman's number this year on the NFL web site they have put up a number of video's highlighting some of Thurman's career one of which is Super Bowl 25. In the heading it says how Thurm should have won the MVP but as alway at the end the give ration of S**T about Scott missing the field goal to lose the game .

 

Well i get it that that one kick could have , should have , would have won the game & i think we all know no matter when we here the term "Wide Right" get that same thought or feeling that we had that glorious day but to say it was all Norwoods fault for losing the game is a crock ! 

 

The Bills D let so many plays get through for extra downs in that game that if they were not allowed it would have sealed the game for the Bills not to mention that Norwood from something like 46 yds & out was something like 34% & from 46 yds in his numbers jumped to like 60+% ?

 

So why didn't they least try one quick out for a couple of yds or give to Thurman which was dominating the run game that day for a extra 2 or 3 yds it wouldn't have taken all the time they had left on the clock for one play, they had 8 seconds left . Can you say hurry up offense which the Bills were known for !!!! 

 

I just still don't get why all of the focus was on one guy winning or losing the game when its a team sport which the D is part of & the numbers showed that he was less accurate at the distance & the coach of all people should have known that & tried to get him in a better position .

 

There is enough blame to go around i just wish they would look deeper into it & spread the blame around a bit ! I would think Norwood felt like total S**T after but adding the media & the fan base on his back its a wonder the dude didn't commit him self !! He for sure went into exile because of it !! 

 

 

I know it's part of the past but seeing that got my stuff stirred up again SORRY !! 

I agree 100%.  I didn’t even watch the kick.  Sure, it would’ve been risky, but I was screaming at the TV for them to go for a quick out.  Any playbwhere we could get 5 more yards.  When they trotted Norwood out, I was a 16 year punk that ran into my bedroom, jumped on the bed and put my head into my pillow and started crying.  I didn’t even watch the kick.  I was throwing a full blown tantrum before the kick was even missed.  I found out he missed when I heard my dads reaction.  I just knew he was going to miss it.  

 

Inside of 42 Norwood was money.  Outside of 42 he was a disaster.  If the kick was inside 42 and he missed, the kick is on him.  It’s like if poppovich called a play for tim Duncan to shoot a 3 with 2 seconds in th clock.  It’s not Tim Duncan’s fault if he misses it.  He didn’t shoot 3s well and it wouldn’t make sense for pop to call that play.  We called a play that didn’t suit the player taking the shot, and we lost because of it.  

[2003Contenders]

I always have to laugh about how much misinformation is out there about this Super Bowl. In many cases, cloudy memories make us believe things that never happened/didn't happen.

 

Myth 1: The Bills were by far the superior team.

 

I think we as Bills fans too often dismiss that Giants team unfairly.

While the Bills were there representing the AFC thanks largely to their high-power offense (they had scored nearly 100 points in the two playoff games against Miami and the Raiders), the Giants were there thanks to their defense. That defense had just held the mighty 49ers offense to 13 points in the NFC Championship game. 

 

In fact, the 1990 Giants boasted one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. Their run defense was so fantastic that Belichick purposely decided to essentially play a prevent-defense for the entire game (allowing short patterns, but punishing defenders when they caught the ball), fearing the Bills' downfield passing offense (which had dominated the other 2 playoff games). He wanted to force the Bills to run the ball -- and even told the Giants players before the game that if Thurman Thomas had a big day running the ball, that would mean that the Giants won the game. 

 

Myth 2: The Bills passed the ball too much in that game because of Kelly's ego

 

Given the success that the Bills had had in the post-season passing the ball -- and knowing that the Giants' strength was in stopping the run, it makes sense that the Bills came out throwing the ball.

 

But it is unfair to suggest that Kelly was pass-happy.

 

A careful look at the pass-to-run ration shows that the offense threw the ball 30 times and ran it 25 times. That is a pretty balanced attack. The problem is that the passing game was not effective largely due to the defense employed by the Giants. For example, Andre Reed, who was one of the greatest YAC receivers in NFL history only managed 62 yards on 8 receptions -- or barely 8 yards per reception.

 

Rather, than criticize Kelly for being egotistical and insisting on passing the ball, I always felt he did a great job of taking what a dominant defense was willing to give him. Rather than forcing the ball downfield into heavy coverage, he was content to check-down or scramble for positive yards. Remember, he did not turn the ball over in this game at all. Meanwhile, the Giants' own offense -- not known for passing the ball -- actually put it in the air MORE often (32 attempts) than the Bills did. 

 

 

Myth 3: Scott Norwood is the reason the Bills lost the game

 

Yes, the missed field goal at the end did turn out to be the difference. However, there were plenty of other factors that contributed in such a close and well-played game. The mythical story about this game has always been "Wide Right", but I always felt that the real story of the game was 41-to-19 (40:33 - to - 19:27 to be exact). That would be the Giants' time of possession against the Bills. Now, thanks to the Bills' hurry-up offense, they were often on the losing side of that stat even in games that they dominated. However, in this particular game that time of possession disparity made a huge difference. The Giants had a grind-it-out offense that was capable of milking the clock. Remember, the Bills' defense was built to stop Dan Marino's passing attack in Miami, but the defense was never sufficiently equipped to mussel an opponent's committed run game. Case in point: the Giants converted a strong 9 of 16 3rd down conversions. Meanwhile, the Bills were only 1 of 8.

 

I would suggest that an unfortunate sequence of events that began midway through the 2nd quarter played a significantly larger role in the game's outcome than did Norwood's miss:

 

-- The ability of Hostetler to hang onto that ball when Bruce sacked him and gripped his wrist. I still have no idea how he managed to NOT fumble it! A TD there would have made it 17-3. It is easy to say that the this would have impacted the final score in a game that was decided by 1 point -- but more importantly, the Giants' offense was NOT built to overcome large leads. Essentially, they were able to stick to their game plan.

 

-- The offense's inability to capitalize on the series immediately following the safety. The Bills had the ball in great field position -- and seemingly had the Giants on the ropes leading 12-3. This was the offense's worst series in the game -- and those that criticize Kelly for passing too much in the game can use this series to bolster their point. I suspect that the thought here was that they believed they could put the game away there with a score, so they chose to be aggressive. Kelly DID hit Reed on a bomb that would have set them up inside the redzone, but Reed dropped it. On another attempt on that series, Reed was crushed by a defender on a crossing route. Instead of adding to the score -- or at least gaining field position/milking the clock, the Bills quickly went 3-and-out and took virtually no time off the clock. Even if the Bills did not score here, if they manage to convert a 1st down or run the ball to take some time off the clock, it is possible that the Giants do not score a TD to end the half.

 

-- After the failed 3-and-out, the Giants more or less ate up the remainder of the quarter on a grind-it-out TD-scoring drive to go into the half trailing just 12-10.

 

-- After the extended halftime, the Giants came out with another grind-it-out series that ate up much of the 3rd quarter and ended in another score to take the lead 17-12. 
 

-- During that sequence from the mid-2nd quarter to late in the 3rd quarter in which the Giants scored 14 points, the Bills' offense never took the field. With the extended halftime, the offense was off the field for over an hour. They looked rusty when they finally did take the field in the second half -- and, worse, the defense was starting to wear down. There were several missed tackles on that TD drive to start the 2nd half, for example.

 

Myth 4: Kelly and the coaches were guilty of poor clock management at the end of the game

 

We now know that Levy and Kelly approached Norwood and asked him where he would feel comfortable kicking a game-winning field goal. Norwood told them he felt good with anything inside the 30. Hence, the offense's goal on that final drive was to get it inside the 30 and leave as little time on the clock as possible for the Giants to respond. You could tell when Thurman ran that draw up the gut to set them up in such field position, the offense left the field believing that the mission had been accomplished.  We all know what happend next.

 

The issue here was not clock management. Rather, the issue was the stupidity on the part of Levy (or whomever) to trust that getting the ball to a spot on the field where his kicker seemed comfortable would be sufficient. 

 

As painful as it may be, I encourage everyone to go back and watch the game in its eternity rather than watching edited versions.  For example, edited versions imply that the Bills' final drive occurred immediately after the Giants kicked the go-ahead field goal. That is not the case: as the Giants' field goal occurred with almost 8 minutes left in the game.

 

It was a great game (very few penalties, no turnovers, a back-and-forth battle) played by two awesome teams. It is just unfortunate that the Bills came up on the short end.

 

One thing I almost forgot: early in the game, Hostetler was literally knocked out cold. The Giants revived him with smelling salts. In today's NFL with the concussion protocol, etc. he would undoubtedly have been forced to leave the game. That would have left the Giants with their 3rd string QB behind center.

[dulles]

2 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

It was a team effort. Defense could not make stops. Reed dropped a pass. Talley missed some plays. It was a great game, someone had to lose sadly, and it was us.

 

If we played that Giants tam 10 times, we probably win 8. That Sunday the Giants got the better of us.

I'm pretty sure we would have won 9 out of 10...and that makes wide right even harder to digest.

[H2o]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Are you really still going with "retard" in 2018?

Nope, he's still saying "you're an idiot" 

[Happy]

8 minutes ago, dulles said:

I'm pretty sure we would have won 9 out of 10...and that makes wide right even harder to digest.

 

We beat the Giants in December, 1990 at the Meadowlands.  Hard fought game from what I remember, but we were definitely the better team.

You're right, still hard to digest the SB 25 loss, but the Giants were better than us that day.

[blacklabel]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

The inclusion of everything else in your post indicates you don't even understand the concept of mockery.  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

 

Good grief, Thomas, are you okay? The lessons you share as the world's foremost expert on mockery have caused you to start communicating in complete gibberish. Maybe you should get that checked out. 

 

Furthermore, mockery can be noticed, acknowledged, and then moved on from as one does when sharing some opinions relative to the topic. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Perhaps because out of the other 100+ plays in the game exactly zero of them can definitively be said of: "If he would have made the play, we would have won." None of them. Zero. Nada. Zilch. But if he would have made the kick, we would have won. Fact. 

There was still time in the clock after the kick...