JohnC Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: It seems so simple and obvious. Well put. One of the most important thing one can do to understand the world better, or anything better, is to read people who don't agree with you, or present the other side to your belief or argument. We have become a world of tribes. It's gotten to the point that if you engage with the other tribe you are committing an act of betrayal to your tribe. What is lost in this self-imposed segregation is that the other tribe isn't so much different from your own tribe. Sure there are differences but the reality is there is more commonality than one would have expected. When all is said and done by limiting oneself you are not expanding oneself. There's just not much growth in restricting one's contacts. Interacting out of your comfort zone won't contaminate you. It's the opposite. Sometimes one's beliefs are strengthened when challenged with opposing beliefs and sometimes one's beliefs are re-examined and altered when exposed to different beliefs. And that is a good thing. Edited May 16, 2018 by JohnC 1
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, JohnC said: We have become a world of tribes. It's gotten to the point that if you engage with the other tribe you are committing an act of betrayal to your tribe. What is lost in this self-imposed segregation is that the other tribe isn't so much different from your own tribe. Sure there are differences but the reality is there is more commonality than one would have expected. When all is said and done by limiting oneself you are not expanding oneself. There's just not much growth in restricting one's contacts. Interacting out of your comfort zone won't contaminate you. It's the opposite. Sometimes one's beliefs are strengthened when challenged with opposing beliefs and sometimes one's beliefs are re-examined and altered when exposed to different beliefs. And that is a good thing. Yup. And even if you don't subscribe to that sound reasoning, whatever happened to good ol' "know thine enemy?!" Edited May 16, 2018 by Kelly the Dog
JohnC Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 56 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yup. And even if you don't subscribe to that sound reasoning, whatever happened to good ol' "know thine enemy?!" What's the saying? Ignorance is bliss.
ColoradoBills Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Fan in San Diego said: I subscribe to the online version. I'm doing my part. I read the online version a few times a week out here in Colorado. I don't get my sports news from it but it is good to read about the old home town. I don't subscribe but all their warnings about so many articles left never locks me out. The BN isn't great but it's miles ahead of the Colorado Springs Gazette. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted May 16, 2018 Author Posted May 16, 2018 3 hours ago, JohnC said: I subscribe to the online NYTimes mostly for the editorial section. There are columnists that I like and read; and there are columnists that I don't like and don't read. Almost all newspapers are struggling with the challenging economics of the business. I don't know why these two columnists should bother you so much that you would not support a paper that in general you support, especially when you have the prerogative of not reading their columns. Sometimes I will read a columnist that in general I don't agree with or even like just for the sake of getting a different opinion and perspective. I can understand why a sector of the readers don't like Sullivan, Bucky or whoever. However, sometimes you broaden your view by listening to someone you don't agree with. If you find that so intolerable to do then just ignore that section of the paper. I subscribe to the Times online, as well as The Guardian. British paper but excellent coverage of US issues.
GunnerBill Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 Get some people who can write. Jerry Sullivan can't. 18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I subscribe to the Times online, as well as The Guardian. British paper but excellent coverage of US issues. Sadly the Guardian is also under severe financial pressure. It is an excellent newspaper.
JohnC Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: I subscribe to the Times online, as well as The Guardian. British paper but excellent coverage of US issues. Do any of those esteemed papers discuss the qb situation for the Bills or which goalie is going to be in the net for the upcoming game? Or do any of those world renowned media outlets let you know where you can get the best Friday fish deals in western NY? ? 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, JohnC said: Do any of those esteemed papers discuss the qb situation for the Bills or which goalie is going to be in the net for the upcoming game? Or do any of those world renowned media outlets let you know where you can get the best Friday fish deals in western NY? ? And this is necessary? It's gratuitous. Edited May 17, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois
Kelly the Dog Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: And this is necessary? It's gratuitous. You mean a tip?
Ol Dirty B Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 22 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I thankfully do not live where the Buffalo News in the main source of information. When I visit family-which is basically a few weeks every year- I find it pathetic. Sullivan basically reruns the same columns each year with new names but same bashing. The rest of news is always with the same slant and never only facts. If you are going to go the route of sensationalist then you need to know you will shrink your audience when the intelligent people realize it. Most of Buffalo is intelligent and has decided that they want a different choice which is now readily available. It's a sports section man.... I get people don't like a lot of the columnists, but is your main source of information determined around how they treat the Bills? I don't care about their sports section, or any sports section in a news paper for the most part, I'm more interested in local news and events not related to what 3rd string RB the Bills signed at the beginning of May.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: You mean a tip? No. Unnecessary
Ol Dirty B Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: I subscribe to the Times online, as well as The Guardian. British paper but excellent coverage of US issues. I like the Guardian also... I'd like to get a Times subscription, but I just can't get myself to pony up. I was debating scamming them because I attended two undergraduate programs and I think I'm still a matriculated student their from like 2 years ago.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: No. Unnecessary Why? He was making a specific point, and a decent one. That the papers he was saying he was willing to pay for do not provide news on Buffalo, which we could be in danger of losing. 1
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Why? He was making a specific point, and a decent one. That the papers he was saying he was willing to pay for do not provide news on Buffalo, which we could be in danger of losing. Fish fry, goalie and Qb is not newsworthy... Or worth paying more than what you pay your ISP.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Fish fry, goalie and Qb is not newsworthy... Or worth paying more than what you pay your ISP. He's talking about getting Bills and Sabres news for your $2.99. It's sportsnewsworthy, and directly applicable to the conversation.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, JohnC said: Do any of those esteemed papers discuss the qb situation for the Bills or which goalie is going to be in the net for the upcoming game? Or do any of those world renowned media outlets let you know where you can get the best Friday fish deals in western NY? ? Someone made a good point earlier, one I've thought of as well if I only knew how to develop apps. There needs to be a "EZpass" for web content. I can't afford to have 50 different subscriptions but I'd be willing to pay for content ala carte. Edited May 17, 2018 by PromoTheRobot 3
Ol Dirty B Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: I read the online version a few times a week out here in Colorado. I don't get my sports news from it but it is good to read about the old home town. I don't subscribe but all their warnings about so many articles left never locks me out. The BN isn't great but it's miles ahead of the Colorado Springs Gazette. This is how I view it. All outlets have their faults, but by national standards the BN isn't that bad, and is useful for local non-sports related news. Personally, I think a lot of these papers would be fine by getting rid of the sports section. That job is dated, you have national outlets and guys will do it for free or as a side hustle and create their own median. Paying someone 6 figures to cover the Bills or Sabres just doesn't make sense, websites like this and Buffalo Rumblings kind of show that. The guy Cover 1 on twitter shows that. People will do this stuff as a hobby, we don't need people with journalism degrees to do that. The nature of the content simply doesn't warrant the credentials in my opinion. I'd rather they focus all those resources towards doing more in depth pieces on local news. That's where, in my opinion, the true value of a paper and what it can bring lays. A guy, just like you, or me, with no real discernible difference in talent when it comes to evaluating what is in front of us is useless. When that hole in coverage exists, someone will fill it, and probably profitably. The BN just might not be the place to do it. However, I could be completely wrong on this as I'm sure plenty of people, perhaps most of the people who buy the paper do it for the sole reason I'm advocating to get rid of it. The Sports section. I'm not really familiar with any statistics on this topic, so I could be way off. The more I think about it, I probably am. 3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Someone me a good point earlier, one I've thought of as well if I only knew how to develop apps. There needs to be a "EZpass" for web content. I can't afford to have 50 different subscriptions but I'd be willing to pay for content ala carte. That is a good idea, however, I think it kind of already exists with things like bleacher report, the ESPN App, the AP wire, even Yahoo updates me on specific topics. And they're free. They just don't provide the kind of in depth journalistic coverage you'd get from outlets that require payment like a NY Times. However, when it comes to sports they get the job done. Edited May 17, 2018 by Ol Dirty B 1
ColoradoBills Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: This is how I view it. All outlets have their faults, but by national standards the BN isn't that bad, and is useful for local non-sports related news. Personally, I think a lot of these papers would be fine by getting rid of the sports section. That job is dated, you have national outlets and guys will do it for free or as a side hustle and create their own median. Paying someone 6 figures to cover the Bills or Sabres just doesn't make sense, websites like this and Buffalo Rumblings kind of show that. The guy Cover 1 on twitter shows that. People will do this stuff as a hobby, we don't need people with journalism degrees to do that. The nature of the content simply doesn't warrant the credentials in my opinion. I'd rather they focus all those resources towards doing more in depth pieces on local news. That's where, in my opinion, the true value of a paper and what it can bring lays. A guy, just like you, or me, with no real discernible difference in talent when it comes to evaluating what is in front of us is useless. When that hole in coverage exists, someone will fill it, and probably profitably. The BN just might not be the place to do it. However, I could be completely wrong on this as I'm sure plenty of people, perhaps most of the people who buy the paper do it for the sole reason I'm advocating to get rid of it. The Sports section. I'm not really familiar with any statistics on this topic, so I could be way off. The more I think about it, I probably am. You're right. The days of the local Sports Journalist are done. To tell you truth the main reason I look at the BN Sports is for the local High School scores. It's fun to keep up with my nephew and niece (both play HS sports) and my old school. When people at work would see me reading the BN online they were amazed how much cool local stuff they have. My friends especially like the "catch of the week" pictures of fisherman and hunters. I hope the BN stays in business with the web page.............it's a lifeline to us who want to know what's going on in Western NY. 2
sullim4 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Someone me a good point earlier, one I've thought of as well if I only knew how to develop apps. There needs to be a "EZpass" for web content. I can't afford to have 50 different subscriptions but I'd be willing to pay for content ala carte. I've mentioned it a few times. The actual tech side of it is the easy part - you just need auth and billing info. The hard part is getting media outlets to buy into the idea. You'd need to line up contracts with the conglomerates like Hearst, Gannett, NYT, etc. The tech companies (Apple, Amazon, Google) would be well positioned to set this up, and could even suggest articles based on previous purchases or interests. The only paper I have seen that has tried micropayments is the Winnipeg Free Press. It's 27 cents CAD per article with a money back guarantee if you read the article and don't think it was worth the money. You will recall 20 years ago that piracy of music was a huge problem. Micropayments have largely eliminated that problem since most people would rather pay $.99 for a song rather than go through the trouble to get an illegal copy. I don't see why the same thing couldn't work for the news. People generally dislike recurring subscription-based services but have fewer issues with pay-as-you-go.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, sullim4 said: I've mentioned it a few times. The actual tech side of it is the easy part - you just need auth and billing info. The hard part is getting media outlets to buy into the idea. You'd need to line up contracts with the conglomerates like Hearst, Gannett, NYT, etc. The tech companies (Apple, Amazon, Google) would be well positioned to set this up, and could even suggest articles based on previous purchases or interests. The only paper I have seen that has tried micropayments is the Winnipeg Free Press. It's 27 cents CAD per article with a money back guarantee if you read the article and don't think it was worth the money. You will recall 20 years ago that piracy of music was a huge problem. Micropayments have largely eliminated that problem since most people would rather pay $.99 for a song rather than go through the trouble to get an illegal copy. I don't see why the same thing couldn't work for the news. People generally dislike recurring subscription-based services but have fewer issues with pay-as-you-go. That technology could affect all kinds of websites. Turn the internet into a toll road. Maybe that's not such a good idea.
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