Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Actually, completion % and games played in college are the only mathematically demonstrably meaningful statistics there are in terms of assessing whether a college QB will be successful in the NFL WELL now. I’m glad to hear you say that. Would you mind linking the study that demonstrates that mathematically then? ‘Cuz I’ve been looking, and I’d just be ever so grateful to you for providing the data. As far as I can track back, the completion % and games started thing come from either Bill Parcells “Rules for drafting a QB” or a similar-era SI article, and I actually haven’t been able to find any studies demonstrating that these are actually meaningful statistics and not rules of thumb. And I’ve looked. 1 hour ago, billsfan11 said: Lol very true. Was actually a descent play by Allen. Only thing he should have done was throw the ball away once he escaped, but that is something he can definitely work on That and sliding. Played baseball among other sports. Oughtta know how to slide 1
Dr. Who Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: WELL now. I’m glad to hear you say that. Would you mind linking the study that demonstrates that mathematically then? ‘Cuz I’ve been looking, and I’d just be ever so grateful to you for providing the data. As far as I can track back, the completion % and games started thing come from either Bill Parcells “Rules for drafting a QB” or a similar-era SI article, and I actually haven’t been able to find any studies demonstrating that these are actually meaningful statistics and not rules of thumb. And I’ve looked. That's a plausible guess as to the source of this proverbial wisdom. I may be mistaken, but I seem to recollect Trent Dilfer scoffing at taking completion percentage out of context as signifying accuracy. (This was in an interview with Rich Eisen.) In any event, surely some offenses that use a lot of bubble screens and the like or Air Raid style systems will have inflated completion percentages. I can't see how by itself it could be a legitimate predictor of future success in the pros.
John from Riverside Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Stop with the concussion nonsense there is nothing saying another ding will automatically render the kid done. Brady's wife openly said Tom has had unreported concussions... seems to still be playing. Josh Allen has broken the same clavicle twice and missed time this past seaksn due to a shoulder injury. So if Allen takes one more shot to that shoulder hes done? One of them has a commitment to football....the other one is openly questioned And yes...there is a difference between concussions and other injuries.....
Dr. Who Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: One of them has a commitment to football....the other one is openly questioned And yes...there is a difference between concussions and other injuries..... Agreed. Even if the commitment were existentially equal, concussions are sufficiently different to place them in a different category. There's a reason the NFL is going out of its way to try and reduce head injuries. Athletes have retired because of multiple concussions. Troy Aikman is an example. They can create life-threatening conditions. All athletes know this, but as Rosen's father is a surgeon, one surmises he would be especially informed and conscious of the dangers.
BillsFan17 Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: One of them has a commitment to football....the other one is openly questioned And yes...there is a difference between concussions and other injuries..... *Openly questioned by fans. There is zero evidence the kid doesnt love the game. Especially considering, despite those concussions the kid kept coming back for more. Could have just walked away in college had that been the case. Then a team trades into the top ten for him, so clearly there is homework done on whether or not the kid is legit into it. Not saying there is a difference or not, I am saying talking in absolutes is silly. You dont know how hell handle the next hit nor the team or doctors for that matter. Edited May 16, 2018 by BillsFan17
John from Riverside Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: *Openly questioned by fans. There is zero evidence the kid doesnt love the game. Especially considering, despite those concussions the kid kept coming back for more. Could have just walked away in college had that been the case. Then a team trades into the top ten for him, so clearly there is homework done on whether or not the kid is legit into it. Not saying there is a difference or not, I am saying talking in absolutes is silly. You dont know how hell handle the next hit nor the team or doctors for that matter. Time will tell....football is a rough sport. The hits are only gonna get harder as Josh moves up in monster's trying to knock him out of the game.
Mat68 Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) Who cares about Rosen? Hes smart, Allen had a higher wonderlic? So what measure of intellegence are we using to rank the Qbs by? Or are we going off the guy's word who tells everyone how smart he is? Now I have zero issue with Rosen as a prospect or individual. I thought he could be a good fit, but there were multiple Qb starved NFL frachises that did not believe he was the best QB prospect. Rumor has it Buffalo outbid Arizona for Allen. Edited May 16, 2018 by Mat68
The Now Moment Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 22 hours ago, Trogdor said: His TDs and INTs were up a lot more when he had pretty good players around him the year before. Not throwing it away is a really bad trait to carry over from college and gets a lot of QBs hurt. I just hope he develops, but I think there is a very real possibility that he never starts in the NFL if he can't improve his short throws. Short and intermediate throws are so important at the NFL level. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised in a year or so. I stated earlier that he needed to hold onto the ball to have a chance to make a play because none of his receivers could get open otherwise. He needed to hold on to the ball because of the talent he had. I believe that changes when he joins the Bills and he actually has players that can make a play. I believe we have better weapons than people give us credit for. Benjamin, Clay and Mccoy are nice targets to have when healthy. Certainly a lot of other players can step up this year with a fresh arm at QB.
Prickly Pete Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 On 5/15/2018 at 7:16 AM, jr1 said: have him be a game manager for 2 years then unleash him no.
Wayne Arnold Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 6 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said: On the topic of processing I just watched this video. So wise...
The_Dude Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: They're not valid by themselves because there are many legitimate reasons for those specific "criticisms" that were out of Allen's control. Valid criticisms would be consistent video evidence as to why Allen was at fault for them. I agree with you. I do. But that’s not to say there isn’t some credence to the knocks on him. And to be honest, I respect Beane. I respect the hell out of him. The safe pick was Rosen and everybody knew it. If this blows up he’ll forever be known as “the idiot that drafted Josh Allen,” or he’ll be known as “the guy that got Josh Allen!!!” Like he’s f’real putting his career on the line for this one. How long will it be till he gets a sniff at GM again if he gets fired because Allen is a bust and Rosen is amazing? ...so let’s hope Beane is right. On draft night I was PISSED. But I didn’t pay any attention to Allen pre draft because I was convinced he’d be horrid. I do see what Beane sees now. Let’s hope he’s right. 2 1
Putin Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 7 hours ago, BillsFan17 said: Stop with the concussion nonsense there is nothing saying another ding will automatically render the kid done. Brady's wife openly said Tom has had unreported concussions... seems to still be playing. Josh Allen has broken the same clavicle twice and missed time this past seaksn due to a shoulder injury. So if Allen takes one more shot to that shoulder hes done? I think there’s a little difference between a shoulder injury and (brain/injury) concussion! 6 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: So wise... One more concussion and he will be certified
BillsFan17 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 56 minutes ago, Putin said: I think there’s a little difference between a shoulder injury and (brain/injury) concussion! One more concussion and he will be certified I literally had a post right after that touched on that.
Scorp83 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Man...this is how crazy people tries to justify not being crazy. If it looks like a rat & smells like a rat...then it's a rat. This type if naive thinking is believing that your being rained on....even tho the liquid is yellow & has a smell.
Wayne Arnold Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Scorp83 said: Man...this is how crazy people tries to justify not being crazy. If it looks like a rat & smells like a rat...then it's a rat. This type if naive thinking is believing that your being rained on....even tho the liquid is yellow & has a smell.
Scorp83 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said: It's the truth... I'm not talking myself into Allen... if he proves me wrong I will believe.... but I've been around this game for a long time. I just don't see it...im not going to go against my better judgment & talk myself into something I know in my heart is just wrong. If I'm wrong...i will proudly own it! But the chances of me being wrong is lesser then Allen becoming a franchise QB for our team.
Wayne Arnold Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: It's the truth... I'm not talking myself into Allen... if he proves me wrong I will believe.... but I've been around this game for a long time. I just don't see it...im not going to go against my better judgment & talk myself into something I know in my heart is just wrong. If I'm wrong...i will proudly own it! But the chances of me being wrong is lesser then Allen becoming a franchise QB for our team. So anyone who thinks Josh Allen is good and/or can be good in the NFL is getting pissed on? Your opinion is the only one of value...and any dissenting opinion is naive?
Scorp83 Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, Wayne Arnold said: So anyone who thinks Josh Allen is good and/or can be good in the NFL is getting pissed on? Your opinion is the only one of value...and any dissenting opinion is naive? There's no way most of the fanbase didn't want this guy before the draft...now that we have him...people want to ignore everything & talk themselves into him being good?? If you don't find nothing wrong with that... then yea...its being naive 1
WPBillsFan Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: There's no way most of the fanbase didn't want this guy before the draft...now that we have him...people want to ignore everything & talk themselves into him being good?? If you don't find nothing wrong with that... then yea...its being naive Scorp! Man...i thought it was just me. I'm just getting tired of repeating myself, so I'm just sitting back waiting for camp to start
John from Riverside Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: There's no way most of the fanbase didn't want this guy before the draft...now that we have him...people want to ignore everything & talk themselves into him being good?? If you don't find nothing wrong with that... then yea...its being naive Like the fan base even knows what they are talking about something to consider they may both end up being good qbs it does not have to be a either or situation
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