Rochesterfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 12 hours ago, Limeaid said: "Faith" does not always mean faith is religious terms. It is funny that a country founded by many whose many ancestors left Europe due to religious persecution repeat same thing in new country. Hopefully chaplin they brought in administer help to all faiths like military chaplains do or even just provide guidance when asked by non-believers. He does - just as many chaplains do - Hospitals, schools, even the US Govt has chaplains that serve all faiths in their guidance. Again this is not unique to the Bills and it was not new to McDermott. Faith is important, but I think people want to believe it drove decisions that they disagree with - even though the evidence is contrary to that. Rosen was the most ready, yet 3 teams passed on him not because of faith, but upside and coachability. The team that drafted him - twice tried to move up to take Allen first - this is not a McDermott thing - this was a player thing.
SouthNYfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I believe the Bills have had multiple team Chaplins in the past. Yes McDermott hired him along with a bunch of new positions as they moved out the old guard. There are several articles talking about how every major sports franchise has a chaplain. This is not a faith or McDermott decision - Len has been chaplain for many other teams not just the Bills. Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired. As you said, it's pretty common. My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent. I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path. As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room.
Sky Diver Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired. As you said, it's pretty common. My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent. I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path. As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room. History is replete with coaches, many of whom have been very successful, who are very open about their faith and use Christian principles in their leadership. I have named a few. This topic smacks of a witch hunt.
SouthNYfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: History is replete with coaches, many of whom have been very successful, who are very open about their faith and use Christian principles in their leadership. I have named a few. This topic smacks of a witch hunt. Open about your faith and principles in your leadership is not the same as religious faith being required in your players. You of all people calling out a witch hunt after the Rosen roasting you did about his political views is the definition of irony.
Sky Diver Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Open about your faith and principles in your leadership is not the same as religious faith being required in your players. You of all people calling out a witch hunt after the Rosen roasting you did about his political views is the definition of irony. Give me an example where the Bills have used religious faith as a litmus test. You are mad that the Bills didn't sign Rosen so you are lashing out against Christians? That's what it sounds like. Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver
SouthNYfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Just now, Sky Diver said: Give me an example where the Bills have used religious faith as a litmus test. The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room. They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction. It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing. You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement.
CommonCents Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room. They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction. It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing. You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement. Well as I asked up thread, are all the new guys men of faith? Murphy? Davis? Ivory? Star? Kerley? The discussion is interesting but doesn’t hold much weight unless he is indeed bringing in an abnormal number of a certain faith. I see AJ and Allen... 1
Sky Diver Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room. They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction. It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing. You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement. Not sure why you would think that I believe there should be a religious litmus test to play for the Bills. What are the signs you are seeing that indicate that the Bills have such a test? Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver
SouthNYfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Well as I asked up thread, are all the new guys men of faith? Murphy? Davis? Ivory? Star? Kerley? The discussion is interesting but doesn’t hold much weight unless he is indeed bringing in an abnormal number of a certain faith. I see AJ and Allen... I don't disagree. The op asked if it was required. I feel it shouldn't be required. Some others have posted signs it might lead that way, but it's not fully confirmed obviously. 1 minute ago, Sky Diver said: Not sure why you would think that I believe there should be a religious litmus test to play for the Bills. What are the signs you are seeing that indicate that the Bills have such a test? You don't comprehend what you read. Feel free to reread my post that you quoted, since I answered the question your just asked me, twice.
Sky Diver Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: I don't disagree. The op asked if it was required. I feel it shouldn't be required. Some others have posted signs it might lead that way, but it's not fully confirmed obviously. You don't comprehend what you read. Feel free to reread my post that you quoted, since I answered the question your just asked me, twice. Not sure what these "signs" are you are alluding to. So you think that the Bills didn't draft Rosen because he is Jewish? That's a pretty outrageous and silly claim. Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction. No one's pointed to anything concrete. Not one person. All we've seen is wild and baseless speculations. Until someone has PROOF, I'm not going to clutch pearls. 2
oldmanfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 I am absolutely certain that McD and his bosses would not set up a work environment that could be sued for religious discrimination.
Sky Diver Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: No one's pointed to anything concrete. Not one person. All we've seen is wild and baseless speculations. Until someone has PROOF, I'm not going to clutch pearls. I posted how Jordan Matthews felt uncomfortable about sharing his faith at team meeting, but the folks with the pitchforks have chosen to ignore it. He wasn't resigned, by the way. Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver
SoCal Deek Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 What the? Born Again Christians are not known for, or categorized by, their hatred of Jews. Where is this stuff coming from?
Rochesterfan Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 30 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired. As you said, it's pretty common. My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent. I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path. As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room. But it doesn’t and it need not create a Christian environment. It allows a place for people of any faith and no faith to come together and talk. It allows those of strong faith to form bonds off the field both individually and with families. Mostly it it gives a place for those that want or need it support and comfort. It is not a requirement and not everyone partakes, but if you watch the NFL and listen post game - you hear a lot of praise to God/Jesus and you see large groups of players from both teams gathering and kneeling and saying a prayer - same thing if a guy has a serious injury. These guys play an incredibly violent game and sometimes groups of them look for something more, but as the Chaplain even says in the article that talked about his hiring - he is not there to force anything - he is there if needed to provide whatever guidance that individual needs. At no point has McDermott put stated anything that puts faith over talent. He has definitely stated he wants team over individuals, but I think faith is his driving guide not the team. McDermott has stated that he wants to know each player as an individual so he can find what motivates them - I think the team appreciates that. Many coaches are highly religious and gives thanks to God/Jesus/Mary - some are even over the top - look at Tony Dungy - yet they still reach the team and are successful. I truly think this is a non-issue that people want to use as motivation for why a guy like Rosen was not the pick and I think it is wrong.
ddaryl Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 12 hours ago, Boyst62 said: Except contract players like this don't apply to that. But, hey, cool Please explain how someone cold contract a certain person based on religious belief, but not fall into the category of discriminating against other faiths. Do you encourage the practice ?
Bill from NYC Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 16 hours ago, eball said: If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team. I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist? An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games. Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)? I think that you are making something out of nothing. Do you listen at all to McDermott? He is trying to be a carbon copy of Nick Saban, complete with the hand clapping and the "process." He means "faith" in the system. Coach Saban demands that players do their individual jobs and trust the system and their teammates. He can sell it to his players because it works. He wins and he is going to keep on winning because of his system. I once heard Coach Saban say that he doesn't prepare as much for other teams as much as he has the players practice perfect execution of what THEY are supposed to do. I expect to hear this from McDermott real soon. 1
eball Posted May 15, 2018 Author Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: I think that you are making something out of nothing. Do you listen at all to McDermott? He is trying to be a carbon copy of Nick Saban, complete with the hand clapping and the "process." He means "faith" in the system. Coach Saban demands that players do their individual jobs and trust the system and their teammates. He can sell it to his players because it works. He wins and he is going to keep on winning because of his system. I once heard Coach Saban say that he doesn't prepare as much for other teams as much as he has the players practice perfect execution of what THEY are supposed to do. I expect to hear this from McDermott real soon. Bill, good to hear from you! That's why I posed the question; to encourage discussion and different viewpoints! I'm not "making anything" out of anything -- it's simply something I've noticed. You might be dead on the money, who knows? 1
Wroughting Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 What a weird juxtaposition this thread is. Non-christians speculating without evidence, Christians asking for more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, I think McDermott prefers Christians, but mostly from a team building perspective. Belief can be a powerful thing, we'll see how it plays out.
SoCal Deek Posted May 15, 2018 Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Wroughting said: What a weird juxtaposition this thread is. Non-christians speculating without evidence, Christians asking for more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, I think McDermott prefers Christians, but mostly from a team building perspective. Belief can be a powerful thing, we'll see how it plays out. On the contrary, an evangelical Christian should want to be around non-Christians....thus the whole ‘evangelical’ thing. ?
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