Cover1 article on Josh Allen's footwork

[White Linen]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think you're talking past each other.  Allen has some *great* natural attributes and @White Linen is only saying those are more indicative of whether he will succeed than his perceived "footwork" issues.  If you look at why highly-drafted QBs "bust" it's almost always because they can't mentally process the game at an NFL level or aren't self-motivated.  It's rarely because they're the hardest workers around with great arms who can't stop throwing scattershot.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

 

I'm also disputing that screenshots of a QB's feet determine if he'll be successful or what he needs to work on before he can play.  It's between the ears and what you're capable of seeing.  It's impossible to predict or break down.   In order to think you're correct (Cover1) you have to build the article around your prediction.  

 

Stop listening to things like the quotes below.  

 

"What I will argue is that accuracy is the premier trait in an NFL quarterback. In college, that is not always the case. However you want to cut it, Allen will need to improve his accuracy and placement if he wants to have any sort of success at the next level."

 

"Even though Allen explains footwork and what it means to a QB’s throwing motion pretty well, the average fan may not understand it. So I want to try and show you what bad footwork looks like, how sloppy footwork will throw off the entire sequencing of a throwing motion, and how it can lead to an inaccurate throw. If you can understand those mechanics, maybe you can empathize with why the Bills took a shot on the big arm from Firebaugh."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Good article. Shows what his problems have been and how he's working to correct them. Seems promising. That last video at the Senior Bowl looks great. 

 

Still not clear what "setting the hallway" is. Does it mean the back foot needs to be perpendicular to where you want to throw.

 

This video may help.  Basically perpendicular with what he calls the "midline" of your back foot aligned with the direct line to the target (I think that's about the arch of the foot or the front part of the shin usually)

 

 

[HardyBoy]

How much of lower body mechanics is anticipation? 

 

How much of anticipation is trust?

 

Both, trust that the receiver will be committing and able to get to a spot on the field and trust that the risk of setting your feet, even momentarily, is worth the potential decleating you're going to take if you trusted a receiver who is not where he needs to be in that point in the pre-read (depth wise, leverage wise, separation wise)?

Edited May 14, 2018 by HardyBoy

[BillsFan4]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Josh’s mechanics are already 10x better than they were in 2016. 

 

They have been on a steady incline for a while now... they are not as poor as Mahomes footwork and he has a lot of experience under center

 

even as “poor” as our line is, it is still going to be 20x better than what he’s ever had because it’s the NFL... He ran a complicated scheme at Wyoming and made all the calls at the line

 

Footwork is much easier to instill than upper body mechanics. There is a big difference between his footwork from 2016 to today which says his trajectory has been going up

 

This is what gives me the most hope for Allen. He has seemed to make steady forward progress from his first year at Wyoming to now. 

 

I dont think he ever really got proper coaching up until what, maybe 3 years ago when he got to division 1? And you've seen him make progress ever since. 

 

None of these college QBs are polished, finished projects. Every single one has flaws (unless you are lucky enough to draft a truly elite college QB like Luck etc). 

So you have to take a gamble on the guy you feel has the best chance to continue progressing as a QB. 

 

 

 

Also, I think that's a good point about Mahomes footwork/mechanics issues. 

Mahomes had some really glaring throwing mechanics issues, and footwork issues coming out of college, yet many here would have been thrilled with him. 

Kansas City saw a QB with a lot of raw potential that they could mold into a franchise guy, so they took a chance and traded up for him (giving up two 1sts and a 3rd). Many people thought it was a brilliant move. 

 

Heres a good article on Mahomes issues and how KC is already made progress fixing them -

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/6/9/15682584/patrick-mahomes-texas-tech-chiefs

 

and one quote form the article that really stood out -

 

Quote

From a technical and mechanical standpoint, Patrick Mahomes was one of the worst quarterbacks I’ve ever seen. I say that without any hyperbole. His throwing mechanics are hands down the worst of any quarterback taken in the first round in at least a decade. This is a screen cap of a Mahomes throw:

 

Maybe that quote takes it a bit too far, but Mahomes very flawed footwork/mechanic issues were a concern of almost every scout and talent evaluator I read. 

 

 

I get that Mahomes had better college stats (in a much different air raid system known for generating huge stats for college QBs), but he and Allen are somewhat similar prospects IMO (im obviously no expert though). So if you'd have been happy with Mahomes, why not be happy about Allen?  Both are somewhat risky projects with huge potential...

Edited May 14, 2018 by BillsFan4

[Jay_Fixit]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

His footwork was definitely his biggest flaw imo but I don’t believe his footwork is as bad as Mahomes was and I think it’s correctable 

Mahomes has the worst footwork I’ve seen by any first round pick in as long as I can remember.

 

Allen’s isn’t near as bad.

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Mahomes has the worst footwork I’ve seen by any first round pick in as long as I can remember.

 

Allen’s isn’t near as bad.

 

Thats my point

[Jay_Fixit]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Thats my point

I know.

[Bobby Hooks]

40 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I know.

How dare you agree with me, punk!

Edited May 14, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[transplantbillsfan]

My god... if I ever hear the phrase "set the hallway" again from anyone I'm gonna stick it in their hallway

 

Really though... solid article, but the ending is what I care about right now... if his mechanics have been fixed... let him play. They're never ever going to be perfect for any QB:

 

 

Leading up to the draft we heard that Allen was working with former NFL quarterback Jordan Palmer, which Allen even mentioned in his initial press conference. His work with Palmer was noticeable in all of the Draft Season events, such as the Senior Bowl, Scouting Combine, and even his Pro Day.

 

 

Some of the issues that I highlighted, like his erratic footwork, lack of balance, unnecessary head/eye movement, setting the hallway, and stepping on the midline and tilting and slashing, seemed to be straightened out.

 

Here are some clips from last season and then from Allen’s Pro Day. What a difference. Smooth drops, light feet, great balance, and efficient movements.

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh’s mechanics are already 10x better than they were in 2016. 

 

They have been on a steady incline for a while now... they are not as poor as Mahomes footwork and he has a lot of experience under center 

 

even as “poor” as our line is, it is still going to be 20x better than what he’s ever had because it’s the NFL... He ran a complicated scheme at Wyoming and made all the calls at the line

 

Footwork is much easier to instill than upper body mechanics. There is a big difference between his footwork from 2016 to today which says his trajectory has been going up

 

Thanks. 

 

I think how quickly and dra

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh’s mechanics are already 10x better than they were in 2016. 

 

They have been on a steady incline for a while now... they are not as poor as Mahomes footwork and he has a lot of experience under center 

 

even as “poor” as our line is, it is still going to be 20x better than what he’s ever had because it’s the NFL... He ran a complicated scheme at Wyoming and made all the calls at the line

 

Footwork is much easier to instill than upper body mechanics. There is a big difference between his footwork from 2016 to today which says his trajectory has been going up

 

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

For an amateur operation, Cover1 is really nicely done.   I'm never sure he's completely correct on this stuff, but his analysis is always sound. 

 

Here's my take:

 

1.  You can't throw the ball with the velocity and, often, the accuracy that Allen does without having fundamentally good mechanics.   All his measurables in the throwing area are excellen - release time, velocity, etc.   The guy has fundamentally good mechanics.   So the mechanical problems are not problems with his THROWING, which is what you find with plenty of guys who have mechanical problems.

 

2.  Allen's problems shown in this article and videos are that his footwork in advance of his throw is sometimes flawed, which leaves him in the wrong position when it's time to throw.   Then he delays the throw and misses the window or he hurries the throw and his mechanics then suffer, affecting his accuracy.

 

I think the difference between those two points is critical.  I agree with those who say changing mechanics in an athlete at this level is very difficult.   You can try to remake the throwing motion, but when the pressure is on in game situations, most athletes revert to the muscle memory they've developed over several years.   What they practice on Wednesday goes out the window on Sunday.   That's why most QBs with mechanical issues in their throwing motion, guys in category 1, never overcome the problem.

 

Allen's not in category 1.   He has a great throwing motion.  Allen's in category 2.   Essentially, the problem Cover1 describes is that Allen hasn't learned the steps to the dance.  Sometimes he's doing the cha-cha when he's supposed to be waltzing.   That's a different problem, and an easier problem to correct than being in category 1.   Any athlete can learn the dance steps.   In fact, teams spend a lot of time teaching that.  On most NFL passing plays, the ball is released quickly, and QBs are taught to take precise steps preliminary to the pass.   THey're taught which foot takes the first step, how far, etc.   Step, step, step, pass.  It's all choreographed.    Allen can learn that.

 

Where Cover1's analysis is more relevant is when Allen is forced to move or scramble.   That's not most plays, but it's enough to make a difference.   Then, Allen's ability to set a good base with his feet, not spread too much, feet moving, etc., becomes more important.   Those things can be taught, but like the throwing motion, the question is whether the teaching will hold when he's under pressure.   For that, we'll just have to wait and see.  

 

These 2 posts about sum it up for me

 

When I've watched even the videos talking about what Allen did wrong, I still thought he looked good throwing the football. That's not how I felt about EJ, who looked like a robot, and I think got worse with time.

 

Here are my reasons for getting behind Allen very quickly after loathing the pick initially and believing he's going to be the starter most of the season:

 

Natural Passer (ties in with all the upper body mechanics stuff already talked about, but I think the fact that he was a HS pitcher who threw a 92 MPH fastball as a Senior helps)

 

+

 

Natural Physical Talent/Stature/Athleticism 

 

+

 

Natural Smarts

 

+

 

Extremely Late Bloomer (makes me mostly dismiss the analytics)

 

+

 

Farmboy Upbringing

 

+

 

Perfect Attitude (which includes what appears to be a good blend of humility and confidence)

Edited May 15, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[ALF]

Allen already embracing Daboll's coaching: "I love it"

The Bills' offensive coordinator did a lot of one-on-one teaching last weekend

SAL CAPACCIO

 

After almost every play on the first day of rookie minicamp Friday, Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll went straight to the team’s prized first-round quarterback.  He could be seen mostly going over footwork and sometimes arm mechanics, as well, with Josh Allen. 

 

But it was never a one-way conversation.  Allen listened, then talked, then listened again before retreating back to the huddle for the next play.  

 Anything that he says, I take that very dearly. I want to be molded by him and just anything that he says, for me (I need) to grasp that concept of whatever he’s talking about, embed it into my mind, and then carry it out and do it on the field.”

 

That early learning and improving from day-to-day, pass-to-pass, is more important to head coach Sean McDermott right now than completing passes or throwing touchdowns.  It’s all part of “the process,” of course.

 

http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/allen-already-embracing-dabolls-coaching-i-love-it

[Jkgobills]

3 hours ago, ALF said:

Allen already embracing Daboll's coaching: "I love it"

The Bills' offensive coordinator did a lot of one-on-one teaching last weekend

SAL CAPACCIO

 

After almost every play on the first day of rookie minicamp Friday, Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll went straight to the team’s prized first-round quarterback.  He could be seen mostly going over footwork and sometimes arm mechanics, as well, with Josh Allen. 

 

But it was never a one-way conversation.  Allen listened, then talked, then listened again before retreating back to the huddle for the next play.  

 Anything that he says, I take that very dearly. I want to be molded by him and just anything that he says, for me (I need) to grasp that concept of whatever he’s talking about, embed it into my mind, and then carry it out and do it on the field.”

 

That early learning and improving from day-to-day, pass-to-pass, is more important to head coach Sean McDermott right now than completing passes or throwing touchdowns.  It’s all part of “the process,” of course.

 

http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/allen-already-embracing-dabolls-coaching-i-love-it

Beginning with Jordan Palmer and continuing with the Buffalo Bills staff, this might be the first time that Allen has been coached this technically on how to throw a football.

 

[oldmanfan]

He has issues to work on.  He's working on them.  Good for him.

 

But I do have to say how laughable some of the reactions are around here.  I would bet that some of those saying the kid can't make it because of his accuracy, that you can't learn good footwork and that you'll revert to habit and on and on, are the same ones who bemoaned us not drafting Mahomes last year.  Same ones saying Mahomes will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  But of course he has footwork issues as well.  Just comical at times around here.

 

As Coach Boone said:  Let the boys play! 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Leading up to the draft we heard that Allen was working with former NFL quarterback Jordan Palmer, which Allen even mentioned in his initial press conference. His work with Palmer was noticeable in all of the Draft Season events, such as the Senior Bowl, Scouting Combine, and even his Pro Day.

 

 

Some of the issues that I highlighted, like his erratic footwork, lack of balance, unnecessary head/eye movement, setting the hallway, and stepping on the midline and tilting and slashing, seemed to be straightened out.

 

This was definitely good to see. What worries me is that when he's facing NFL defenses at NFL speed he will revert to old habits. There isn't a lot of pressure in the Senior Bowl. It's easier to remember what you've been taught and execute it. The real learning curve comes at the next level. We just have to hope he steadily improves over time and reaches his potential.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

sorry you don't like the term. I use it, especially when some still cling on to not drafting him.

 

it's likely appropriate at times. 

 

It just gets applied a bit too indiscriminately to people who evaluate his technique and NFL readiness favorably, and/or critique same for Allen.  A person can acknowledge a player's skill level without being a "fan boy" and critique a player's gaps without being a "hater", that's all I mean.

 

I

[transplantbillsfan]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This was definitely good to see. What worries me is that when he's facing NFL defenses at NFL speed he will revert to old habits. There isn't a lot of pressure in the Senior Bowl. It's easier to remember what you've been taught and execute it. The real learning curve comes at the next level. We just have to hope he steadily improves over time and reaches his potential.

 

I just think, unlike EJ, he's going to be fine starting right away.

 

EJ had some serious issues in terms of his upper body mechanics... it just didn't look natural. Plus there seemed to be some problems above the shoulders--he just couldn't get out of his own head.

 

As much as footwork may or may not still be an issue, Allen looks like a natural passer.

 

NFL QBs, even young ones, aren't the equivalent of the $6 million man... you don't just tear them down and build them back up the way some people have suggested should happen for both Darnold and Allen.

 

These are 20 something year olds who have thrown probably thousands of passes. Getting rid of all the old habits is impossible because... well... they're human.

 

Has there ever been a QB who's drastically improved his footwork/mechanics after sitting on the bench to start his NFL career and those improvements have stuck?

Edited May 16, 2018 by transplantbillsfan