RIP Chuck Knox

[Buftex]

50 minutes ago, Dante said:

 

Aint that the truth! He is my favorite Bills coach. None other even close. The most professional and competent imho. If people (the newer fans) think that the last decade has been bad they should have watched them back in the late 70s. The team was utterly hopeless after OJ was done. Qb's the likes of Matt Kofler and Gary Marangi. He came in and got the team back to fundamentals and gradually got them very competitive. Some great games back then.

One game in particular I remember in '80 was against the Rams. Weird weather day. Kind of surreal dark and foggy. I thought it was a coming out party for the  Bills as they affirmed they were for real defeating a Super Bowl team(the year before) and then going to the playoffs.

That Rams game was a great defensive battle, in crummy weather.  As I recall, the Bills clinched a playoff spot with that OT win...I think the final score was 10-7! I was at that game!

 

The "I got a feeling, Buffalo's going to the Super Bowl" was born that day!

 

Another fantastic game was the next season, where the Bills went to San Diego (regular season) and beat the heavily favored Chargers, by a point. 

 

Great memories of the 1980-1981 Bills.

 

Bills/Rams highlights about 21 minutes in....

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Buftex

[Dante]

2 hours ago, Buftex said:

Chuck Knox era Bills football is still my favorite era of Bills football.  I realize, the 90's Bills ultimately had far more success, but it was the Knox teams that were the first in my time as a Bills fan (my earliest memories start in 1972, with Dennis Shaw as QB) that ever gave me the hope that the Bills were a legit threat to win the Super Bowl.  The OJ era was fun, but I don't think anyone ever thought they could win it all.  For, as conservative as Knox reputation was, the Bills of his time were actually fairly creative and prolific.  Joe Cribbs was one of the first RB's (along with Roger Craig) that was used extensively as a receiver out of the backfield.  They were a blast to watch...and Chucks defenses were fantastic.  I still remember that regular season game in 1981, when the Bills hit the road to take on the heavily favored Chargers.  Nobody thought the Bills could win that game...they won 28-27...one of the most exciting games I had ever seen, up to that point.  And Chuck was just cool.  Tough guy....but his players absolutely loved him. Thanks for the memories Chuck!  RIP

2

"Ground Chuck" moniker was definitely earned. But the running game was effective with the likes of Curtis Brown and Roland Hooks. I hate to be the old guy with "I remember when" but...his ground game made his other creative type plays effective. One game I was at he burned some team with a play action,  tight end screen to Rubin Gant that went for 60 or 70 yards. No one near him.

[Ned Flanders]

7 minutes ago, Buftex said:

That Rams game was a great defensive battle, in crummy weather.  As I recall, the Bills clinched a playoff spot with that OT win...I think the final score was 10-7! I was at that game!

Nope, they had to win @NE the next week and lost, so they had to win at SF in the finale and clinch.  A great season could have turned brutally south with a loss at SF.

7 minutes ago, Buftex said:

 

The "I got a feeling, Buffalo's going to the Super Bowl" was born that day!

That came about a little earlier I believe, after beating OAK in game four.  It was DL Dee Hardison that started that little ditty.  

[Buftex]

1 minute ago, Ned Flanders said:

Nope, they had to win @NE the next week and lost, so they had to win at SF in the finale and clinch.  A great season could have turned brutally south with a loss at SF.

That came about a little earlier I believe, after beating OAK in game four.  It was DL Dee Hardison that started that little ditty.  

Yeah, now it is coming back...that 49ers game was huge too!

[row_33]

23 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

I started watching the Bills during the Chuck Knox era. It’s a shame things didn’t work out between him and Ralph as Chuck was a very good coach with the Bills. RIP Coach.

 

he stayed long enough, a good era for the team, they won a few they shouldn't have won, that's what a truly great coach can do for a team

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

He was a solid coach and a class act. I became a Bills fan with his teams of early 80s. The Bills were in good hands under him. A great long life, well lived!

[jahbonas]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That 88' defense was loaded too and I agree that they could have gone to the SB and been beaten by the Niners that year if they had given Kelly more freedom......but 99' was better and deeper though.   I'd take 99' Big Ted and Hansen over 88' Smerlas and Still.......plus that 99' DL was just much deeper with future pro bowlers Pat Williams and Wiley in reserve.    The year Sam Cowart had was arguably the best a Bills LB has ever had.......he was worthy of NFLDPOY.     He was the nearly perfect player that Bennett, Conlon and Talley never became under Club Marv.    99' had a clearly better secondary as well.    Thomas Smith was a full head better than Nate and Winfield was better than Burroughs.  Kelso was just a centerfielder catching errant throws and a weakness for years.  And they just had an outright mental toughness that eluded ALL of Walt Corey's defenses.     The 1999 defense was not only talented and deep but also just fundamentally suffocating and coached by the best defensive coaching in franchise history.    

 

Agree with you one huge difference - the coaching staff of Wade Phillips was far superior to the coaching offered by Walt Corey (who absolutely wasterd Cornelius Bennet's career)

Good debate - I can buy the 1999 defense

 

[Tcali]

RIP Chuck Knox. Tied for best Bills coach with Lou Saban. Those early 80s teams were probably the most fun...Great personalities from Isaiah Robertson to Haslett to Villapiano etc etc etc--They were so close to the SB.A play or two here and there.

15 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

 

Agree with you one huge difference - the coaching staff of Wade Phillips was far superior to the coaching offered by Walt Corey (who absolutely wasterd Cornelius Bennet's career)

Good debate - I can buy the 1999 defense

 

64,64,88,99...a great discussion can be had....aahh if Polian only would have kept Smerlas for another yr. We were outsized by the Giants.Bruce had to do everything---so they ran away from him..

[dollars 2 donuts]

On May 13, 2018 at 7:35 PM, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Finished with a winning record.  37-36.

 

heartbraking to me as a youngling seeing them get to 4-2 in the '82 strike shortened year, wherein 5-4 virtually guaranteed you a playoff spot in the only 8 team per conference playoff year in league history...and they lost their last three games and finished 4-5.

 

 

 

My bad, especially as I always knew this as a kid...38-38, including the playoffs.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, jahbonas said:

 

Agree with you one huge difference - the coaching staff of Wade Phillips was far superior to the coaching offered by Walt Corey (who absolutely wasterd Cornelius Bennet's career)

Good debate - I can buy the 1999 defense

 

 

 

Yeah Bennett's talented was greatly misused.   The inmates were running the asylum and Biscuit just wanted to rush the passer.    He was an OLB but was essentially an undersized DE under Corey and was often engulfed or took ridiculously wide angles that had no chance of resulting in a sack.    He should have been playing inside and moved around to take advantage of his off-chart athleticism.    When they hired Wade and signed Paup they moved Bennett inside we got to see both what we were missing in pass rush with him on the outside...........and what we were missing without him dominating on the inside.   Totally boned the Bills when he signed with Atlanta.    Loved Spielman but they missed Bennett's athleticism.    Biscuit was Indy's best defensive player in 99'.....having him next to Cowart would have been crazy.   

[T master]

 

Good coach & person he brought respect , excitement for the Bills future & winning to the Bills which was needed !!

 

RIP coach !!! 

[Tcali]

On 5/13/2018 at 5:51 PM, MTBill said:

I can recall being infuriated by 'ground chuck'.  I really think he was one of our best coaches of all time - and when you think about it we've had some great ones.  Lou Saban, Marv Levy, Chuck Knox (not in that order).  I think if Wade had been able to stick around a bit longer - he'd be up there too.

Wade is not a head coach(and i mean that in the way that TTaylor is not a QB--but a great runner)..He is an all time great DC though.

On 5/14/2018 at 7:36 AM, Buftex said:

Chuck Knox era Bills football is still my favorite era of Bills football.  I realize, the 90's Bills ultimately had far more success, but it was the Knox teams that were the first in my time as a Bills fan (my earliest memories start in 1972, with Dennis Shaw as QB) that ever gave me the hope that the Bills were a legit threat to win the Super Bowl.  The OJ era was fun, but I don't think anyone ever thought they could win it all.  For, as conservative as Knox reputation was, the Bills offense of his time were actually fairly creative and prolific.  Joe Cribbs was one of the first RB's (along with Roger Craig) that was used extensively as a receiver out of the backfield.  They were a blast to watch...and Chucks defenses were fantastic.  I still remember that regular season game in 1981, when the Bills hit the road to take on the heavily favored Chargers.  Nobody thought the Bills could win that game...they won 28-27...one of the most exciting games I had ever seen, up to that point.  And Chuck was just cool.  Tough guy....but his players absolutely loved him. Thanks for the memories Chuck!  RIP

great post Buftex. My sentiments exactly. The OJ era was amazing but we had a defense that was really a joke exc for Tony Greene and a few others

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:05 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah Bennett's talented was greatly misused.   The inmates were running the asylum and Biscuit just wanted to rush the passer.    He was an OLB but was essentially an undersized DE under Corey and was often engulfed or took ridiculously wide angles that had no chance of resulting in a sack.    He should have been playing inside and moved around to take advantage of his off-chart athleticism.    When they hired Wade and signed Paup they moved Bennett inside we got to see both what we were missing in pass rush with him on the outside...........and what we were missing without him dominating on the inside.   Totally boned the Bills when he signed with Atlanta.    Loved Spielman but they missed Bennett's athleticism.    Biscuit was Indy's best defensive player in 99'.....having him next to Cowart would have been crazy.   

I completely agree.  I even think that the steroids hurt Bennett more than they helped him. Even though he got much bigger (remember his neck?), he would still often get "engulfed" as you say by good blockers.

 

I was young, I couldn't see all the games and my memories are vague but I saw him in college. I did not think that he was a worse player than Derrick Thomas. He was virtually unstoppable at Alabama and he started out great at Buffalo. I always believed that he was better than what we saw most of the time.

[Freddie's Dead]

RIP Coach.  You gave us something to cheer about.  

[mileena]

I  have and bad memories of him. I'm glad he turned our franchise around and got us to the playoffs. But he abandoned the Bills when the going got rough like a coward. He stole Reggie McKenzie from us to play with Seattle. I'll never forgive him for that.

[row_33]

49 minutes ago, mileena said:

I  have and bad memories of him. I'm glad he turned our franchise around and got us to the playoffs. But he abandoned the Bills when the going got rough like a coward. He stole Reggie McKenzie from us to play with Seattle. I'll never forgive him for that.

 

that's roughly #164 in ranking of complaints about the Bills over the years

 

[Rico]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:23 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That 88' defense was loaded too and I agree that they could have gone to the SB and been beaten by the Niners that year if they had given Kelly more freedom......but 99' was better and deeper though.   I'd take 99' Big Ted and Hansen over 88' Smerlas and Still.......plus that 99' DL was just much deeper with future pro bowlers Pat Williams and Wiley in reserve.    The year Sam Cowart had was arguably the best a Bills LB has ever had.......he was worthy of NFLDPOY.     He was the nearly perfect player that Bennett, Conlon and Talley never became under Club Marv.    99' had a clearly better secondary as well.    Thomas Smith was a full head better than Nate and Winfield was better than Burroughs.  Kelso was just a centerfielder catching errant throws and a weakness for years.  And they just had an outright mental toughness that eluded ALL of Walt Corey's defenses.     The 1999 defense was not only talented and deep but also just fundamentally suffocating and coached by the best defensive coaching in franchise history.    

Lil Antoine only started 2 games in 1999, Ken Irvin started 14.

 

To his credit though, he shockingly made a play in the WC game and picked off McNair.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 5/16/2018 at 8:19 PM, Bill from NYC said:

I completely agree.  I even think that the steroids hurt Bennett more than they helped him. Even though he got much bigger (remember his neck?), he would still often get "engulfed" as you say by good blockers.

 

I was young, I couldn't see all the games and my memories are vague but I saw him in college. I did not think that he was a worse player than Derrick Thomas. He was virtually unstoppable at Alabama and he started out great at Buffalo. I always believed that he was better than what we saw most of the time.

 

Bennett was every bit as good of a player as Thomas but didn't really have a pass rushers build the way Thomas did.    He didn't have that long body/long arm frame.   Bennett was the fastest LB in the NFL but he was more symmetrically built.   It used to frustrate me seeing the Steelers acquiring the right body types for pass rushing OLB spots while the Bills had Bennett constantly running himself out of plays trying to get around OT's untouched because he just didn't fare well in close quarters with OT's.     Then Wade entered and fixed that.   Bennett didn't like that but the book was out on him and getting 4-5 sacks per year opposite Bruce Smith was ridiculously inefficient production.   His best position was inside in that 3-4........he could have been a HOF'er had he been there his entire career.  

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:23 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 Thomas Smith was a full head better than Nate and Winfield was better than Burroughs.  Kelso was just a centerfielder catching errant throws and a weakness for years.  And they just had an outright mental toughness that eluded ALL of Walt Corey's defenses.     The 1999 defense was not only talented and deep but also just fundamentally suffocating and coached by the best defensive coaching in franchise history.    

Wow, really? I didn't think this but maybe it was because Smith, although great in coverage, couldn't catch picks, or am I way off base?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

Wow, really? I didn't think this but maybe it was because Smith, although great in coverage, couldn't catch picks, or am I way off base?

 

Yeah Smith could not catch a football to save his life.    Nate Odomes was a good cover corner and had very good ball skills but Smith was an elite cover man.     There was one season where teams just wouldn't throw at him.     It was Deion-like treatment.     But once the book got out teams would throw at him some because they didn't fear the interception................but they still had little success.   Nate Clements had both higher end coverage and ball skills than Odomes.    Clements couldn't cover like Smith but they haven't had a guy who could cover like Thomas Smith in his prime since maybe Robert James.   Not Gilmore or Winfield or anyone.   And as you and I both know they spent a lot of high draft picks on DB's back when they weren't as important.