Doc Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: You use people as if it is a mix of men and women. It's not, it's just half-naked women. I stated that if they were fully clothed and it was multi-gender I wouldn't have a problem but we really need to have just half-naked women? What is your problem with it, specifically? Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time? 2
Jauronimo Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 56 minutes ago, MC Hamburg said: Im not clear why after all these years we still don't have a cheerleading squad...are we the only NFL team to not have them? I know there was a lawsuit of some sorts but isn't it settled by now? Until the Jills commit to improve their vaginal hygiene, the Bills should hold the line. Stay strong, El Pegual! 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 Just now, Doc said: What is your problem with it, specifically? Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time? My guess to the answer there is "no." Because it's only objectification if people objectify the individual dressed in that manner. Did I guess right?
The Now Moment Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dirtbag said: it has something to do with progressives being hypocrites. or, maybe to spite faux intellectualism. the target is moving... Still haven't heard one defense why they have to be half-naked or just women.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Other leagues have dance teams/cheerleaders and I haven't heard of any major issues like the NFL has had. My fiancé danced in the NBA for 2 seasons. It was a totally different environment. She used to get like $50 an hour for appearances. That’s probably why you don’t hear the complaints. These girls made $1200 on all-star weekend. You’d need to be an NFL cheerleader for like 6 years to make that. It was highly competitive and the girls all danced in college or at a high level. They had to deal with some of the bs but in general it was a good part time job while she was in school. 2
The Now Moment Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Doc said: What is your problem with it, specifically? Do you have a problem with women walking around "half-naked" in Summer time? Why is it not directed more towards a family atmosphere? Why is it just female dancers, there are male dancers too. Why do they have to be half-naked? It really just doesn't make sense why they need to be half-naked and only female. The sport is not just for men anymore, it is a family sport.
Doc Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: My guess to the answer there is "no." Because it's only objectification if people objectify the individual dressed in that manner. Did I guess right? But, are we truly "objectifying" cheerleaders? Or are they just women doing a job they signed up for and that's their business attire? Hmmmmmm. Just now, Buffalo30 said: Why is it not directed more towards a family atmosphere? Why is it just female dancers, there are male dancers too. Why do they have to be half-naked? It really just doesn't make sense why they need to be half-naked and only female. The sport is not just for men anymore, it is a family sport. Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms? 1
The Now Moment Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms? That's a really far reach man. There are dancers that wear clothes too.
LeGOATski Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: My fiancé danced in the NBA for 2 seasons. It was a totally different environment. She used to get like $50 an hour for appearances. That’s probably why you don’t hear the complaints. These girls made $1200 on all-star weekend. You’d need to be an NFL cheerleader for like 6 years to make that. It was highly competitive and the girls all danced in college or at a high level. They had to deal with some of the bs but in general it was a good part time job while she was in school. Yep. People like money. People like to dance and feel sexy. Some people are good enough at dancing and being sexy to make money doing it, so let them. Contract a real dance team and entertain the fans with it.
Doc Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: That's a really far reach man. There are dancers that wear clothes too. Look, I don't care about cheerleaders and would rather the Bills never bring them back. I just don't see the problem with them, and they're no more "half-naked" than your average girl/woman during summer, which was my point. And unless they're simulating sex acts on the field, it's not family unfriendly. 1
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, joesixpack said: I already I told you I agree with you. But it ain't because i'm worried about "the children." If you’re worried about “the children”, you wouldn’t bring them to a Bills game. 1
The Now Moment Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Look, I don't care about cheerleaders and would rather the Bills never bring them back. I just don't see the problem with them, and they're no more "half-naked" than your average girl/woman during summer, which was my point. And unless they're simulating sex acts on the field, it's not family unfriendly. I disagree that they are family friendly.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, MC Hamburg said: Im not clear why after all these years we still don't have a cheerleading squad...are we the only NFL team to not have them? I know there was a lawsuit of some sorts but isn't it settled by now? From Wiki: " As of 2016, six teams do not have cheerleading squads: Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. " There was some sort of ruling last fall, I think to the effect that the Jills were "non-exempt employees" not "independent contractors" and that it's a valid "class action lawsuit", but AFAIK the lawsuit is not settled. If you want a serious answer, I think the heart of the problem for the Bills and some other teams is that they wanted to have it both ways - they wanted to gain the PR benefits of having cheerleaders, but to avoid the expense and overhead by letting an independent contractor manage and supervise and schedule the Jills and claiming to not be involved. The lawsuit exposed the downside to that business model. Having the cheerleaders run by an independent contractor with potential negative PR from abuses is now seen as an unacceptable liability risk. So unless someone within the Bills organization has a lot of energy around setting up and running cheerleaders in-house (and paying them minimum wage for the hours they're required to put in), I don't think we'll see a Jills revival. 2
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Doc said: But, are we truly "objectifying" cheerleaders? Or are they just women doing a job they signed up for and that's their business attire? Hmmmmmm. Why do the players have to be in such tight uniforms? Exactly. At one point do we outlaw actors who take their shirts off for female audiences to leer at? What about all the male musicians who attract female audiences based almost solely on appearance? Of course it will never get to that point, because there is a different agenda at play. For the sake of equality this should be what occurs however. My point is that this is all ridiculous. Pop culture lynch mobs should never be created to prevent people from “objectifying” themselves. If society gets to the point where women themselves choose to no longer be cheerleaders, the argument would be completely different. Edited May 13, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: If you’re worried about “the children”, you wouldn’t bring them to a Bills game. EXACTLY. 1
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: From Wiki: " As of 2016, six teams do not have cheerleading squads: Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. " There was some sort of ruling last fall, I think to the effect that the Jills were "non-exempt employees" not "independent contractors" and that it's a valid "class action lawsuit", but AFAIK the lawsuit is not settled. If you want a serious answer, I think the heart of the problem for the Bills and some other teams is that they wanted to have it both ways - they wanted to gain the PR benefits of having cheerleaders, but to avoid the expense and overhead by letting an independent contractor manage and supervise and schedule the Jills and claiming to not be involved. The lawsuit exposed the downside to that business model. Having the cheerleaders run by an independent contractor with potential negative PR from abuses is now seen as an unacceptable liability risk. So unless someone within the Bills organization has a lot of energy around setting up and running cheerleaders in-house (and paying them minimum wage for the hours they're required to put in), I don't think we'll see a Jills revival. Great post. You’re looking at this issue from a logical standpoint based on what really matters, money. This is the real reason the Jills don’t exist, and it’s the reason we won’t be seeing them return any time soon. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I agree. People are WAY too politically correct these days and nothing good can come from what would inevitably be viewed as the objectification of women. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it really has to do with concerns about objectification of women. Follow the $$ IMO. All about the bottom line. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 The NFL should just get rid of all the cheerleader squads. Theyre completely pointless, and just another point of problems for the NFL.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it really has to do with concerns about objectification of women. Follow the $$ IMO. All about the bottom line. If “objectification” is cited as a cause for the decline of pro cheerleading, it is nothing more than a convenient excuse. Social change rarely occurs until the powers that be determine the financial consequences imo. In this case, social progress would be a front for protecting the wallet.
Mountain Man Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 Regardless of the reasons why the Jills dont perform. The simple question is, what do they add and why do you gain from having them?
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