MMQB: Why the Browns are making a mistake with Baker Mayfield (by starting Tyrod)

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Eh I get it. Mayfield comes from a spread offense and needs to work on his footwork. They don't need to rush him into the starting spot, they can afford to spend at least half a season developing him. The Browns aren't good yet. They're paying Tyrod $16 million to be a capable bridge starter. I kind of wish we would do a similar thing with Allen.

 

It seems like the right thing to do.  The Browns traded for TT way before they even knew who they were drafting.

Having TT start the season was their plan.  I think they should stick with it.

 

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The reason that the Browns are going with Tyrod is they need to win now. They are1-32 over the last two years!! With Taylor they win at least 6 games and may contend for a wild card. The whole culture needs to change in Cleveland. Tyrod is there to stabilize and then Baker to elevate them. It’s pretty similar to here in that sense. The Bills are stabilized and now they need to take the next step.

 

TT will win some games and will give the OC a good idea how his system is working and to evaluate all the new players the got.

 

6 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I’ve never understood the reasoning behind making a player wait if they’re the obvious winners in training camp. 

 

Its an archaic way of running a team. There’s no set blueprint. Some players benefit from sitting, some don’t. Forcing a player to sit “just because” it’s myopia at its finest. 

 

If you win the job you should play. 

 

Training Camp performance has nothing to do with how NFL games are played.  TT is not the greatest QB but he is the best that Cleveland fans

will see in a very long time.  Preseason games with the exception of the 3rd game is not close either.

Cleveland starts the season off with Pittsburg, that opponent is 3 times tougher than what Mayfield will see in camp.

 

For everyone (this includes the Josh Allen debate in Buffalo) I will reiterate, "Training Camp is nothing like an NFL opening game"!

[Boca BIlls]

51 minutes ago, grb said:

 

Yeah; I'm sure Taylor averaged 7.99 yards per attempt in 2015 "taking safe conservative throws".

 

 

Hey man all the saints said was they just had to make Tyrod play QB to win.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Eh I get it. Mayfield comes from a spread offense and needs to work on his footwork. They don't need to rush him into the starting spot, they can afford to spend at least half a season developing him. The Browns aren't good yet. They're paying Tyrod $16 million to be a capable bridge starter. I kind of wish we would do a similar thing with Allen.

WE will if AJ shines in TC

[grb]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:32 PM, BillsFan17 said:

The very same year where his 20 passing TDs was good for 21st in the league. Again, you arent winning games without points. Something Tyros seldom produced. Next!

 

Back for more? Aren't you a glutton for punishment! Yes, Taylor was 21st in number of tds passing. That's because Buffalo was 31st in passes attempted. Now I don't have much faith in your ability with higher math, so let me just cue you in : Those numbers suggest Taylor was more adept at throwing tds than many (if not most) of his peers. And lo & behold, this proves to be the case. Mr. Taylor's td percentage was 5.3, which was 12th in the NFL - tied with Kirk Cousins.  Those quarterbacks trailing Tyrod in touchdown passes per throw included : Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Jameis Winston and many others. I won't mention Taylors touchdowns rushing.

 

That would just be piling on.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by grb

[Lfod]

Once you start Mayfield you can't bench him for Tyrod without looking very stupid. It works a lot better the other way around. 

 

You can't start Mayfield if you think there is even the smallest chance you will have to bench him for Tyrod. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Lfod

[Bobby Hooks]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It seems like the right thing to do.  The Browns traded for TT way before they even knew who they were drafting.

Having TT start the season was their plan.  I think they should stick with it.

 

 

TT will win some games and will give the OC a good idea how his system is working and to evaluate all the new players the got.

 

 

Training Camp performance has nothing to do with how NFL games are played.  TT is not the greatest QB but he is the best that Cleveland fans

will see in a very long time.  Preseason games with the exception of the 3rd game is not close either.

Cleveland starts the season off with Pittsburg, that opponent is 3 times tougher than what Mayfield will see in camp.

 

For everyone (this includes the Josh Allen debate in Buffalo) I will reiterate, "Training Camp is nothing like an NFL opening game"!

You know the best way to get ready for an nfl game? Play in one. 

 

I mean why bother with training camp or any rookies at all? Let’s just get a team full of old vets that have experience in real games. 

 

Sitting on the sidelines teaches you one thing, how to sit on a sideline. 

 

Let me reiterate. If you win in training camp, you win the right to play in the game. The ONLY way to get in game experience!

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Tbh there are so many different ways to look at this. I totally get starting Tyrod if that makes sense... the team just wants to win a game. Any game. I just don’t see the wisdom in constantly shouting from the rooftops that Tyrod and only Tyrod will start. Just let the thing play out. Make the decision with you need to make the decision. At this point, he hasn’t earned it any more  than mayfield has.

Edited May 13, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

You know the best way to get ready for an nfl game? Play in one. 

 

I mean why bother with training camp or any rookies at all? Let’s just get a team full of old vets that have experience in real games. 

 

Sitting on the sidelines teaches you one thing, how to sit on a sideline. 

 

Let me reiterate. If you win in training camp, you win the right to play in the game. The ONLY way to get in game experience!

 

 

 

Believe what you want Bobby.  With your logic if Danny Etling has better "stat's" in Training Camp he should start in front of Brady.

[Teddy KGB]

 

9 hours ago, grb said:

 

When Taylor had a comparable amount of offensive talent around him in Buffalo as now in Cleveland?

He finished seventh in the NFL by passer rating - ahead of Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Ben Roethlisberger, etc, etc.

Maybe that's worth considering too.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2015

 

Can we trade in the qbr points from 2015 and add them to the 3 points scrubrod scored in Jax ? 

 

Lol @ comps like Big Ben, Cam etc ????.    

3 hours ago, The_Dude said:

Browns fans are gonna hate Tyrod by game 3. They’ll want the gunslinger to take over by then. 

 

Seems like a lock.  

Edited May 13, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How do you figure??

?

 

This is such a bad take. The Bills were tops in the league in points scored in Tyrods first two seasons here. The Bills scored points in a Tyrod led offense until Dennison and McDermott were hired.

100% agree. 

 

Although I'm not a fan of Hue.... I never understood the Tyrod hate. Some fans just don't know what they are watching. Or there is a little bit of deep seeded racism in some and they don't want a black QB. Or a little bit of both of the above.

 

Don't play the race card.  Seriously, don't.

 

Some fans know damn well what they're watching.  They were watching an ultra-conservative QB with an astronomical QB rating because he refused to throw the ball farther then five yards to a receiver if he was covered...or might have been covered...or might even be seen by a defender anywhere on the field.  He frequently underthrew open receivers, that is, if he saw them at all.  He checked down practically every time, even on third and long.  His careful approach prevented turnovers, but it also prevented big plays.  The Bills were the only team in the league not to have a single pass play of 50+ yards last season.  You want to tell me our receivers were so bad it was impossible for Tyrod to get one?  Go watch some film, like the 22, and then try telling me that.  There were a good number of plays last season where he gave up on receivers too early, and missed seeing them open.  Tyrod's play vs. JAX was a wonderful encapsulation of him and what he brings.  He's not going to lose you many games, but he's not going to win you many.  He is the median, the black hole that elevates teams below the 8-8 mark, and brings down teams above it.  I hold no hostility toward him, I respect what he did for the team.  The fact though, is the Bills have simply outgrown him.  Cleveland, bringing a 1-31 record to the table, is scraping the bottom and will be elevated by the aforementioned Tyrod black hole.  And by the time the Browns outgrow him, Mayfield will be ready to take over.

 

So no, my feelings toward Tyrod are not motivated by ignorance or racism, and I strongly resent the implication of either.  All else fails, play the race card?  That is both pathetic and insulting.

[transplantbillsfan]

Has MMQB made a similar proclamation that Allen should just be named the starter now? 

 

Same logic would apply, right?

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Has MMQB made a similar proclamation that Allen should just be named the starter now? 

 

Same logic would apply, right?

Again, they aren’t saying that the Browns should just name mayfield the starter now either. They are saying they should give him an opportunity to win the starting job in camp.The Browns are saying they won’t do that with Mayfield. The Bills are saying they will do that with Allen. 

[xxxxxxxx]

16 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

You are silly to think Mayfield will be better than or even equal to Tyrod by the start of the regular season. Not sure if you are serious or trolling.

 

As far as the article stating the Browns should declare Mayfield the starter right now shows the author may even have a lower football IQ than you uticaclub.

Yup. He's not coming from a pro system, and will take half a season, at least, before he starts. And to assume that any NFL club would let political correctness effect their starting QB choice is to be really, truly stupid. The opposite is more likely, as Colin Kapernick is far more serviceable than most backups in the league ( and the majority of the Qbs that Buffalo will be starting with) and he doens't have a job yet. The anti-political correct crowd has way more sway in the over NFL decision making, and its not even close.

Edited May 13, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Rochesterfan]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I actually think he did create a QB controversy where none existed by declaring a starter so early. Having an open competition between the #1 overall pick and an average vet seems less controversial to me. It’s not like Baker is stepping into a team with an established starter at the helm. Tyrod has never taken a snap for the Browns or played for any of the coaches before either. He has 3 more years of playing experience but don’t see why that gives he has the starting job on lock down before they see either of them in this offense with these players.

 

Agreed - much like the owner screwed the GM and forced them to keep Hue because he couldn’t shut his mouth.  The coach just literally did the same thing at QB.

 

If they shut their mouths and let it play out you have a natural dynamic at play, but not only has Hue stated multiple times that TT is their starter they are going on and on about his abilities in camp.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

10 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It seems like the right thing to do.  The Browns traded for TT way before they even knew who they were drafting.

Having TT start the season was their plan.  I think they should stick with it.

 

 

TT will win some games and will give the OC a good idea how his system is working and to evaluate all the new players the got.

 

 

Training Camp performance has nothing to do with how NFL games are played.  TT is not the greatest QB but he is the best that Cleveland fans

will see in a very long time.  Preseason games with the exception of the 3rd game is not close either.

Cleveland starts the season off with Pittsburg, that opponent is 3 times tougher than what Mayfield will see in camp.

 

For everyone (this includes the Josh Allen debate in Buffalo) I will reiterate, "Training Camp is nothing like an NFL opening game"!

 

 

I will disagree with your first 2 parts completely.

 

They traded for TT first, but they have had the number 1 pick locked up since near the middle of the season - so it is not like they won the lottery and now had to ID their QB.  They had been scouting these guys for over 1 year by this point.  Having TT is not a bad plan, but much like Buffalo - put it out there - we want the best man for the job.  

 

I agree that TT may win some games, but I do not think he will give the OC any kind of read on the players or the system.  That is exactly what happened in Buffalo and Haley is much less flexible in Cleveland than Dennison was here.  Just look at his treatment of Ben in Pittsburgh- no audibles - things like that where Ben got little input.  How is TT going to react when Haley wants him to throw a short crossing route an a three step drop to Landry and the guy is open, but TT holds the ball and scrambles or is sacked.  

 

This is what Sal talked about all year and why Dennison was frustrated with TT - the offensive was designed for a lot of quick throws off from breaks, but if you QB holds the ball the route combos are destroyed and now you are looking for a new spot to throw.  I think this gets amplified in Cleveland because Mayfield can do that type of throw and will show that in the preseason.

 

The last part is spot on training camp and preseason games are nothing like a regular season game, but where will he learn more - on the bench or in the game.  You know at some point he will be starting - just state we are having a competition and may the best QB win.  More than likely it should be TT, but if Mayfield looks good - his era starts now.

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

The very same year where his 20 passing TDs was good for 21st in the league. Again, you arent winning games without points. Something Tyros seldom produced. Next!

Um ... the Bills were pretty good at scoring points in 2015 and 2016 -- 12th and 7th overall if you exclude the final clown-show game from 2016, when Manuel started.

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

Don't play the race card.  Seriously, don't.

 

Some fans know damn well what they're watching.  They were watching an ultra-conservative QB with an astronomical QB rating because he refused to throw the ball farther then five yards to a receiver if he was covered...or might have been covered...or might even be seen by a defender anywhere on the field.  He frequently underthrew open receivers, that is, if he saw them at all.  He checked down practically every time, even on third and long.  His careful approach prevented turnovers, but it also prevented big plays.  The Bills were the only team in the league not to have a single pass play of 50+ yards last season.  You want to tell me our receivers were so bad it was impossible for Tyrod to get one?  Go watch some film, like the 22, and then try telling me that.  There were a good number of plays last season where he gave up on receivers too early, and missed seeing them open.  Tyrod's play vs. JAX was a wonderful encapsulation of him and what he brings.  He's not going to lose you many games, but he's not going to win you many.  He is the median, the black hole that elevates teams below the 8-8 mark, and brings down teams above it.  I hold no hostility toward him, I respect what he did for the team.  The fact though, is the Bills have simply outgrown him.  Cleveland, bringing a 1-31 record to the table, is scraping the bottom and will be elevated by the aforementioned Tyrod black hole.  And by the time the Browns outgrow him, Mayfield will be ready to take over.

 

So no, my feelings toward Tyrod are not motivated by ignorance or racism, and I strongly resent the implication of either.  All else fails, play the race card?  That is both pathetic and insulting.

Taylor did almost none of the things you say he did when he had a good receiving corps, which was far too infrequent in his time in Buffalo. He is limited, but he is not by nature a check-down or inaccurate qb. He is not the most accurate qb in the world, but when blessed with good receivers, he's at least a little better than league average. I agree about with you about what he does for a team vis-a-vis mean regression, but he's really not that bad. It'll be interesting to see what he does in Cleveland, which unlike the 2017 Bills is not stuck with an absolutely garbage receiving corps. People forget to mention that issue far too often. If Josh Gordon is on, he is the sort of player who can actually catch up to Taylor's deep throws and beat his man while doing it.

[BillsFan17]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How do you figure??

?

 

This is such a bad take. The Bills were tops in the league in points scored in Tyrods first two seasons here. The Bills scored points in a Tyrod led offense until Dennison and McDermott were hired.

100% agree. 

 

Although I'm not a fan of Hue.... I never understood the Tyrod hate. Some fans just don't know what they are watching. Or there is a little bit of deep seeded racism in some and they don't want a black QB. Or a little bit of both of the above.

Tyrod didn't produce points its that simple. Just because the TEAM finished high doesnt automatically mean Tyrod was responsible. Considering his running backs produced at a fantastic level. But no it was all Tyrod you got it.

 

2016 Shady and TD Mike accounted for 21 rushing TDs. Williams and Bush each had one TD. 23 rushing TDs combined. 

 

TYROD ONLY THREW FOR 17 TDS!!!! sure he rushed for four, but HES A QB WHO THREW FOR LESS THAN 20 TDs. Keeping in mind McCoy and Mike had receiving TDs.

 

But yeah, the team finishes tops in scoring thanks to Tyrod. So you can laugh at my "bad take" or admit Tyrod did little to propel the offense.

 

Moreover the fact you bring up race is absolutely weak and awful. Considering how much I pulled for EJ Manuel to succeed, ya know A BLACK QB! But yeah, bring up race you piece of garbage.

Edited May 13, 2018 by BillsFan17

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 Some fans just don't know what they are watching. Or there is a little bit of deep seeded racism in some and they don't want a black QB. Or a little bit of both of the above.

 

☝? What a ridiculous post.    

 

Im no racist so let’s forget option 2 and focus on option A as the alternative. 

 

When you say “we”didn’t know what we were watching are you referring to

 

The Saints game ?

All the embarrassing Pats games ? 

The season Opener in Baltimore ? 

The 3 point playoff game ? 

 

Tyrod didnt know what he was watching is what you really mean ?    

 

Supposed to be happy with Tyrod in a league with Watson, Rogers, Wentz, Brees, Cam, Brady, Big Ben, Cousins as his competition ????

 

That’s just crazy talk and a losing hand.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Tyrod didn't produce points its that simple. Just because the TEAM finished high doesnt automatically mean Tyrod was responsible. Considering his running backs produced at a fantastic level. But no it was all Tyrod you got it.

 

2016 Shady and TD Mike accounted for 21 rushing TDs. Williams and Bush each had one TD. 23 rushing TDs combined. 

 

TYROD ONLY THREW FOR 17 TDS!!!! sure he rushed for four, but HES A QB WHO THREW FOR LESS THAN 20 TDs. Keeping in mind McCoy and Mike had receiving TDs.

 

But yeah, the team finishes tops in scoring thanks to Tyrod. So you can laugh at my "bad take" or admit Tyrod did little to propel the offense.

 

Moreover the fact you bring up race is absolutely weak and awful. Considering how much I pulled for EJ Manuel to succeed, ya know A BLACK QB! But yeah, bring up race you piece of garbage.

 

Thus guy gets it. They scored points in spite of Tyrod not because of Tyrod.

[Big Gun]

12 hours ago, grb said:

 

Yeah; I'm sure Taylor averaged 7.99 yards per attempt in 2015 "taking safe conservative throws".

 

 

And then defenses figured him out. Go root for Cleveland as your pathetic schtick is old and lame!