John Ledyard on with Schopp & Sal today

[Big Gun]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What happened to you brah?  You've become such a Luddite, and you seem proud of it - "I never 'erd of 'em, he sucks!"  

 

Just because you're out of the loop doesn't mean these guys don't know what they're talking about.

But they really don't know what they are talking about, that is obvious.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

14 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

2 things that sticks out...

14 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Ledyard on Allen:

 

He had 3rd round grade on him.  Talent/athleticism is awesome, but at end of day decision making/accuracy are issues.

 

Is it possible to develop the talent?  Yes, but difficult.

 

 

He had Allen as a 3rd rd grade... wow

 

Then us not getting weapons around Allen. I want to see Allen succeed but I was thinking the same thing... how can he without any legitimate weapons. I love Benjamin but I've lost faith in Zay cause he had alot of drops last year. 

 

After today, & I could be reading too much in it, but I think they are gearing up for Allen to start day 1... especially with the 1-on-1 treatment he was getting today. 

Well then he was DEAD wrong because at least TWO, if not more teams had him in the top ten of the first round, if not more

[Wayne Arnold]

9 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

I totally disagree...only because he's made a statement that most of us know. It's not blowing smoke... besides Kiper, Mayock, Chris Simms, & DJ... everyone said this dude is a project, but given the position he's going in the top 10. Bucky Brooks, Charles Davis, Heck Sal, Jeremy White, Nate Geary, & Donald Jones from WGR said numerous occasions have either stated or had guests on the air saying Don't Draft this guy with a 1st rd pick. 

 

There's a difference between a project and a third round talent. You give four examples of national guys who are big fans of Allen, and two guys who really like Allen but recognize him as not a finished product. Not exactly an endorsement for the statement "Many, if not most, 'expert draft analysts' had him as a 3rd round type project."

Just now, Nineforty said:

I remember seeing plays used as examples of his confusion on plays and having no idea on checkdown or where Blitzer was coming from.

 

It all seemed to be corrective stuff, and I was more optimistic than most were on Allen leading up to draft, as an aside.  But seeing those scared/scare me. 

 

 

You can cherry pick bad plays by every quarterback in history.

[Cripple Creek]

15 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

2 things that sticks out...

 

He had Allen as a 3rd rd grade... wow

 

Then us not getting weapons around Allen. I want to see Allen succeed but I was thinking the same thing... how can he without any legitimate weapons. I love Benjamin but I've lost faith in Zay cause he had alot of drops last year. 

 

After today, & I could be reading too much in it, but I think they are gearing up for Allen to start day 1... especially with the 1-on-1 treatment he was getting today. 

I suppose that they should "gear up" for Allen to start day 1. I hope they "gear up" every player to start from day 1.  He did get blanketed by Dabol yesterday & that's a good thing.  

 

Devil's advocate to your points above would be that Allen sits (mostly) this year. (I do think that this is the preferred plan of the coaches)  That gives you next off season with tons of cap space and another draft to purchase those weapons for Allen.

[Nervous Guy]

48 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What happened to you brah?  You've become such a Luddite, and you seem proud of it - "I never 'erd of 'em, he sucks!"  

 

Just because you're out of the loop doesn't mean these guys don't know what they're talking about.

He wasn't exactly glowing in his reviews of Carson Wentz either...." He still struggles with location and accuracy, operating from a wide base at times instead of standing more upright in the pocket. Wentz has a big arm that will occasionally force the ball into coverage, often because he processes his reads and opposing defenses too slowly in the pocket. By the time he’s made a decision, defenders have often maneuvered into position to make a play on the ball."       Does this sound familiar?  I wouldn't mind if Allen turned out like Wentz.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/01/31/carson-wentz-is-who-we-thought-he-was-and-there-is-nothing-wrong-with-that/

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, mykidsdad said:

 

 

No one knows anything until we all do. But boy oh boy I'm hoping.....

At first I thought this seemed outrageous, but if you think about it, its probably true: these two players could be awesome. Now, they may not pan out, but as far as upside is concerned Allen and Edwards are truly players in the first round that have a chance of being great, not just very good but great. Its like we had two at bats and we swung for the fences on both. We could strike out, but we have the most potential coming out of the first round of any team this year. Part of that is because we had 2 picks which multiplies the chance of this being a truly memorable first round, but also, neither pick was safe. These are all-ins. Raw talent, energy, potential. Can these coaches guide them to greatness? Time will tell. I'm worried, but holding out hope. We rolled the dice and there's a stack of chips on the line. For my peace of mind, I just think of Edmunds being our 7 and Allen being our 16th, because truth be told Edmunds seems more likely to be a homerun.

 

That 1st line sounds like a Yogi Berra quote.

 

We’ll know when we know.

 

They’re all bad until they’re good.

[billspro]

14 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

Well, his analysis for Cardale Jones was spot on:

 

Cardale Jones, Buffalo Bills – 4th (139)

My No. 3 quarterback in the draft with a second round grade, Jones was a great value selection by the Bills in the fourth round, and should fit their offense well. I think he’ll be given the opportunity to compete with Tyrod Taylor for the starting spot, and has the electric arm and underrated smarts to succeed earlier than many expect. I’m not sure he’s worse than Taylor, but the Bills may ultimately feel more comfortable with the incumbent – for now.

 

Year One Impact: Will push for starting spot

 

For more interesting analysis -

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/05/23/2016-nfl-draft-review-quarterbacks/

 

 

LOL anyone who had a second round grade on Jones should not be taken seriously (I had a 5th-6th). Jones had accuracy issues all over his tape, unlike Allen who occasionally misses an easy swing pass, but does not have accuracy issues. Decision making, on the other hand, needs to be improved. 

1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:

Well I've watched 6 games of Allen... & I literally text Jeremy & told him to stop sending me game times & the channel of Josh Allen... those games were wasting my life! 

 

Allen has lots of good tape. 

3 hours ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

Yep, pretty funny to review the "expert" in hind-sight: on Carson Wentz: "slow to read the field" [sound familiar] Eagles gave up to much for him [sound familiar], Paxton Lynch and Cardale Jones both higher-rated prospects. Time will tell, but I'd take McBean's opinions over Ledyards.

 

The fact that he had Jones and Lynch over Wentz should end this thread. 

10 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"My #1 (concern about Allen) was just that I thought he consistently showed on tape struggling to process what was going on. Almost like he had no plan at the line of scrimmage and simple stuff that defenses were doing to him. Whether it was a one linebacker blitz against the protection he seems surprised by it. And I just know that that is something that is really difficult to understand and take to the next level when you get to the NFL because it only becomes more detailed, more complicated, more disguised. So I think that's going to be a big hurdle for him to jump."

 

I didn't see this on 2017 tape and find it hard to believe that this is the case considering the reports that teams were impressed with his chalkboard explanations and recall. I wonder what Orlovsky is referring to specifically. 

 

I understand his statement on Allen. There are many plays where I questioned Allen's processing. Saying that I wonder if it was actually a problem processing or was he expecting so much pressure to get through that he knew he would have to improvise. His oline and WRs were terrible in 2017.

[Big Gun]

16 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

 

The fact that he had Jones and Lynch over Wentz should end this thread. 

 

 

Yup, 

 

Amazing how the people who dislike the Allen pick will search for any non credible analyst who shares their view and discredit the Bills pick to try and justify their belief that they are right and the Bills and everyone else is wrong. WTF! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

I totally disagree...only because he's made a statement that most of us know.

 

When someone makes a statement that "most of us know", but can't back it up, that usually means it's just something people mindlessly repeat but has no factual basis.

If "Many, if not most, 'expert draft analysts' had him as a 3rd round type project" then it should be easy to find people who have said that on the record.

 

Quote

It's not blowing smoke...

 

It's the very definition of same - something "everybody knows" that has little or no factual foundation

 

Quote

besides Kiper, Mayock, Chris Simms, & DJ... everyone said this dude is a project, but given the position he's going in the top 10.

 

That is closer to truth - people said he's a project, and given his enormous physical potential he's going in the top 10.  And he did, just as they said.

 

Quote

Bucky Brooks, Charles Davis, Heck Sal, Jeremy White, Nate Geary, & Donald Jones from WGR said numerous occasions have either stated or had guests on the air saying Don't Draft this guy with a 1st rd pick. 

 

Should be easy for you (or Fadingpain) to find where they said "don't draft this guy with 1st round pick" then.  Nate Geary had him as his QB #4 behind Rosen, Mayfield, and Darnold (which happened to be my rank order, so we're both off from NFL pros) but that's different than saying "don't draft in 1st round".  And different still from "Many, if not most, 'expert draft analysts' had him as a 3rd round type project"

I wouldn't call Donald Jones an "expert draft analyst" btw.  If by "expert draft analyst" you mean "dude with a mic and an opinion" or "former player with a mic and an opinion" that explains a lot.

 

[stony]

10 hours ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Ledyard's a nobody, btw so is Orlovsky! LOL I saw the Orlovsky interview on the WGR website and I seriously have very little recollection of the guy other than he was a backup for a couple of years in the NFL. I don't even know what teams he played for. Did Orvlosky ever start an NFL game?

 

Do you really hold these nobodies viewpoints in a higher regard  than that of Phil Simms or Boomer Esiason? ..or even Beane or McDermott for that matter? C'mon now, let's be real. I wouldn't trust Ledyard or Orvlovsky as far as I could throw them. I'll take Beane's, McDermott's, Simms' and Esiason's opinion's on Josh Allen thank you.

 

 

12 years in the league.  And yes, I respect anyone's viewpoint more than Phil Simms.  

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Who the $#%@ is John Ledyard?  Oh yeah, another guy sitting at a computer in his mother's basement "evaluating" college players.

 

3rd round grade?  You guys are suckers listening to this crap.

I'm ecstatic that the Bills drafted Josh Allen. And I'm more than pleased that they took aggressive actions to get him. But that doesn't diminish what the self-designated scout guru said about the prospect. He made the same observations about the prospect that many pro scouts made. There were plenty of pro scouts who didn't have a first round grade on our number one pick. 

 

If you generalize his takeaway on Allen it is that he is qb with outstanding physical attributes but is very raw on the mental side of the game. Even as a college player he was considered a player with impressive tools but a player who still has a way to go to grasp the intricacies of the position. That's basically the scouting world's consensus on him and the Bills view on him. 

 

The issue that Ledyard appropriately focuses on and is an issue that the Bills organization has to wrestle with is when to play him. Will playing him very soon hurt his development or will it accelerate it. My inclination is to be cautious. But if he shows that he is more precocious then we thought then isn't it worth the risk to get him out sooner rather than later? What I'm saying is that what Ledyard is saying makes a lot of sense and are issues that the Bills will be facing.  

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, N.Y. Orangeman said:

John Ledyard Bio...you decide.

Jon Ledyard has been writing about the NFL draft for several years now, and is thrilled to be bringing creative content and unique analysis to NDT Scouting. He lives with his wife Brittany and four-month old daughter Caylee in mid-western Pennsylvania. Jon is also the host of the Locked on NFL Draft and Breaking the Plane podcasts, while covering the Steelers for scout.com. The Office, LOST, weightlifting, ultimate frisbee, grilling, Duke basketball, and all Pittsburgh pro sports teams are his greatest passions.

 

Seeing the way he elected to spell his daughter's name shows he does not always correctly process.  He took a cute name and turned it goofy.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, The_Dude said:

Ledyard is a SOLID analyst. His job isn’t to reassure you on your teams draft pick; it’s to give his honest opinion. It was all professional criticism.  

 

Gonna break this down:

1) Any analyst's job is to give honest opinion and professional criticism, not to make fans feel good.  Agreed. 

2) Isn't Jon Ledyard fundamentally "JAG" (fan like the rest of us)?  From NDT scouting:

" Jon Ledyard has been writing about the NFL draft for several years now, and is thrilled to be bringing creative content and unique analysis to NDT Scouting.(...)Jon is also the host of the Locked on NFL Draft and Breaking the Plane podcasts, while covering the Steelers for scout.com. The Office, LOST, weightlifting, ultimate frisbee, grilling, Duke basketball, and all Pittsburgh pro sports teams are his greatest passions."

I don't read anything there about playing the game, coaching the game, scouting the game on a higher level....he sounds to me like a fan who is turning is passion into a bit of a career, and Good for Him! 

 

Not to take away from him, a guy can be a fan and educate himself, put in the time, analyze the film, and so forth.  But it is worth asking what makes him SOLID, more than several people here who also watch film, put in the time, educate themselves.

 

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

2) Isn't Jon Ledyard fundamentally "JAG" (fan like the rest of us)?  .

 

 

Absolutely...

[billsredneck1]

16 hours ago, Albwan said:

wow peoples are still mad...as a casual draft watcher i don't think i saw one time

him out of the first round, i thought their best option was to go bpa early

and with lamar jackson late. However I'm thrilled with Allen, mostly because

I'm behind a management team 100% who gets a bills team led by tt to their

first playoff win in forever. I hope they hit a home run.

I almost forgot who the heck is john ledyard

i figured, lb at 12, rudolph at 22 then j. washington and harrison in the second, but i'm really warming up to allen.

 

i just hope they don't plan on starting him day one. i really want to see what a.j. can do. after listening to the radio yesterday,it sounded like every one viewed him as a day one jim kelly savior.  well pump the brakes a bit here and remember is was a rookie camp. the vets will be showing up soon.

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

This thread should be renamed,”I dislike Allen so here’s a guy with a microphone who dislikes him too. I want everyone to know I really dislike our player. But Incase I’m wrong and look like a total jacka$$, I will say that I hope I’m wrong.”

 

nevermind, that would never too long of a title. Dumb thread though, but I’m glad I posted in it. 

[Green Lightning]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I promise to share my Crow Pie with you.  Tender meat flaking off the bone with rich gravy in a flaky crust.

It'll be good, I promise.

I'll bring the legal beverages. 

[The_Dude]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gonna break this down:

1) Any analyst's job is to give honest opinion and professional criticism, not to make fans feel good.  Agreed. 

2) Isn't Jon Ledyard fundamentally "JAG" (fan like the rest of us)?  From NDT scouting:

" Jon Ledyard has been writing about the NFL draft for several years now, and is thrilled to be bringing creative content and unique analysis to NDT Scouting.(...)Jon is also the host of the Locked on NFL Draft and Breaking the Plane podcasts, while covering the Steelers for scout.com. The Office, LOST, weightlifting, ultimate frisbee, grilling, Duke basketball, and all Pittsburgh pro sports teams are his greatest passions."

I don't read anything there about playing the game, coaching the game, scouting the game on a higher level....he sounds to me like a fan who is turning is passion into a bit of a career, and Good for Him! 

 

Not to take away from him, a guy can be a fan and educate himself, put in the time, analyze the film, and so forth.  But it is worth asking what makes him SOLID, more than several people here who also watch film, put in the time, educate themselves.

 

 

My argument isn’t that Ledyard’s opinion is better; it’s that his job is to give HIS opinion. It’s noy to say what fans want to hear. That’s all. 

[Scorp83]

4 hours ago, PeterGriffin said:

But they really don't know what they are talking about, that is obvious.

Why because they are not praising our top 10 pick???  Your being bias... 

[Stanley Lombardi]

18 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Many, if not most, "expert draft analysts" had him as a 3rd round type project.

 

 

Before the draft occurred, I read many, many articles about the QB prospects.  Somehow I missed many, if not most, of the "expert draft analysts" you are referring to.