John from Riverside Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 It’s all about the qb if Allen hits the team is immediately better
Tatonka68 Posted May 10, 2018 Author Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Did you just become a Bills fan in 2017? 1978. Does this change that Tyro d sucks? NO! 21 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Again, no one is talking about Tyrod but you. We are just challenging the notion that McCarron is any sort of upgrade based on what he has done. You pick random things that you hated about Tyrod as your proof and bury your head in the sand regarding McCarron’s struggles at the pro level. He has actually been a worse pro, with better surrounding talent, than Taylor. There is a reason that he is making half of McCown, about 28% of Tyrod, 1/6th of Ryan, etc...The league has spoken pretty loudly. Now if you are referring to Allen we can discuss. He has massive upside and if he comes close to his potential he is absolutely an upgrade. That likely isn’t going to happen this year. If it does, fantastic!! The Bills even know that they are likely taking a step back to take a step forward. That’s why they keep saying things like, “this isn’t going to happen overnight.” The frustrating thing about discussing this with you is that you stick your fingers in your ears and scream “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA, I CANT HEAR YOU.” If you want to do that it’s up to you but that doesn’t strengthen your argument. While we are at it I don’t understand how you believe the RB position will be better? Ivory is maybe a slight upgrade from Tolbert but Shady is a year older and they are running behind a significantly worse OL. They lost a Pro Bowl LG, a former Pro Bowl C and one of the highest paid OTs in the league (despite his injury problems). How do you see that RB group improving?? Random things,l like he didn't score any points. Very random. McCarran won two national titles and will not be scared to throw to receivers who are not wide open. Try actually watching tape of McCarron instead of waddling in your man crush of a player who was BENCHED last year than TRADED away. Edited May 10, 2018 by Tatonka68
Kirby Jackson Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 1978. Does this change that Tyro d sucks? NO! Random things,l like he didn't score any points. Very random. McCarran won two national titles and will not be scared to throw to receivers who are not wide open. Try actually watching tape of McCarron instead of waddling in your man crush of a player who was BENCHED last year than TRADED away. Ha ha, yeah the Bills desperately need to throw the ball to receivers that aren’t open. Ha ha, quit while you’re behind.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: 1978. Does this change that Tyro d sucks? NO! I guess you don't like it when the Bills score points...
Tatonka68 Posted May 10, 2018 Author Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I guess you don't like it when the Bills score points... You mean the 3 points they scored in the Wild card game????? 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Ha ha, yeah the Bills desperately need to throw the ball to receivers that aren’t open. Ha ha, quit while you’re behind. Ever here of a 50/50 ball. I guess not.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: You mean the 3 points they scored in the Wild card game????? No, I mean the 2 years of top 10 DVOA offenses and 2 of the top 10 scoring offenses in the team's history.
SoCal Deek Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 Wow, that list of receivers reads like a grab bag of mediocrity alright. I still find it hard to believe that an entire receiving corp could be so decimated in so short a time. I remember when it was considered one of the strengths of the Team with Watkins, Woods, and Clay. Fast forward a couple of years and....yikes! The Bills better hope against hope that Zay Jones gets it figured out, and fast!
JohnC Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 On 5/8/2018 at 10:01 AM, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy. I'm in the same vicinity as you are but with some differences. Our receiving corps is in general from a league standpoint mediocre at best. I believe a healthy Benjamin playing with another functional veteran receiver will make this unit better than it was last year. I am not giving up on Zay. I still believe that he can be solid. He should be healthy and motivated entering this season. His production in college was too good for him to completely fall off the cliff entering the next season. I'm not saying this to purposely antagonize you but I consider McCarron an upgrade over TT because I believe that he can run a pro offense that includes progressions and rhythm throws. That in itself should benefit the receivers. My concern is the same as it is for most others i.e. the OL. The Incognito loss is more damaging than the Eric Wood loss. The ability of McCarron to make quick reads and throws should help out the OL in pass protection. I see the rebuild moving forward but I don't consider this a playoff team. It's not how Allen comes along this upcoming season but how he progresses into his second and third year.
Tatonka68 Posted May 10, 2018 Author Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: No, I mean the 2 years of top 10 DVOA offenses and 2 of the top 10 scoring offenses in the team's history. 3 points in playoff game. 56 total yards passing against the Saints. 0 offensive TD's in two games against the Patriots. benched and traded by McBean. Edited May 10, 2018 by Tatonka68
Infinitum Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 On 5/8/2018 at 9:40 AM, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory They had a good O-Line last year, this up coming season it has the potential to be one of the worst in the NFL. I don't think we'll see 9 wins.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 37 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 3 points in playoff game. 56 total yards passing against the Saints. 0 offensive TD's in two games against the Patriots. benched and traded by McBean.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Why do you keep bringing up entire seasons?!? Why don’t you just isolate a few specific games/moments that prove your point and ignore the other 98%? Don’t you know how to support your argument?!? 1
Tatonka68 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Why do you keep bringing up entire seasons?!? Why don’t you just isolate a few specific games/moments that prove your point and ignore the other 98%? Don’t you know how to support your argument?!? Padding stat's against bad teams then throwing for 56 total yards against the Saints, and can't score against play-off teams. Seems McBean doesn't hold your opinion and your precisions Tyrod is not on the roster. Edited May 11, 2018 by Tatonka68
Kirby Jackson Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Just now, Tatonka68 said: Padding stat's against bad teams then throwing for 56 total yards against the Saints, and can't score against play-off teams. Seems McLean doesn't hold your opinion and your precisions Tyrod is not on the roster. I’m so confused by everything you say. The Bills decided to pay their placeholder $3M + a 3rd round pick instead of $16M. You understand that right? It was a good decision. No one is arguing that. You need to see the whole picture though not what fits your narrative.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Why do you keep bringing up entire seasons?!? Why don’t you just isolate a few specific games/moments that prove your point and ignore the other 98%? Don’t you know how to support your argument?!? What I found really interesting was that the 90's teams on that list all valued Thurman more than Kelly. In fact, Taylor is the only QB to have the highest AV on the team of any of those top 10 scoring years.
Bray Wyatt Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Lets be honest, the strength of those scoring teams was based on the run game, not TT and the passing game (yes TT did help the run game) Also, we are not running that offense any more so to bring up a possible improvement by replacing AJM with TT and trying to state that it wont happen because of those teams seems disingenuous I do think its possible that AJM could do better than what TT did last year, he could also be worse. I dont think you can at this point say definitively one way or the other
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: Lets be honest, the strength of those scoring teams was based on the run game, not TT and the passing game (yes TT did help the run game) Also, we are not running that offense any more so to bring up a possible improvement by replacing AJM with TT and trying to state that it wont happen because of those teams seems disingenuous I do think its possible that AJM could do better than what TT did last year, he could also be worse. I dont think you can at this point say definitively one way or the other Get back to me when he leads the Bills to 400 points. Edited May 11, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13
Bray Wyatt Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Get back to me when he leads the Bills to 400 points. The point of the therad was comparing this roster to last years, what you are saying is irrelevant as last years team did not put up 400
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: The point of the therad was comparing this roster to last years, what you are saying is irrelevant as last years team did not put up 400 No, it's comparing the position groups now to the previous position groups. The QB had been here for more than 2017, much like the OL and the MLB.
Bray Wyatt Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: No, it's comparing the position groups now to the previous position groups. The QB had been here for more than 2017, much like the OL and the MLB. But you arent making an apples to apples comparison, this is not the same offense with the same personnel that TT had in those years. You can go back two years if you like to think that somehow makes a better comparison, I will stick with the more recent. Asking AJM to put up 400 pts in order to be an equivalent to what TT did (which seems to be your implication) in a different offense that what TT did is not a good comparison
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