Ramza86 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory Competition. We dont know if the QB position will be better this year. A QB is very limited with a poor Oline. Especially an immobile one. Hate Tyrod all you want...but he was able to move the sticks with his legs and mask a lot of the poor offensive line play.
Aussie Joe Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) I remember a year ago a lot of people crying about how bad the secondary was going to be.. Lets see what happens.. Edited May 8, 2018 by Aussie Joe 1
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory I think maybe you're putting too much thought into "upgrading talent" and not enough thought into the lack of experience of that talent. In year one, I wouldn't expect guys like Allen and Edmunds to come in and instantly improve the production at those positions. Edmunds has the talent, much more so than Preston Brown, and is a great fit for this defense, but he's very young. Brown may have had physical limitations, but he was the "QB" on defense each year. Edmunds will likely show flashes, but his lack of experience will probably negate some of his talent in the first year or two. Allen has a ton of talent as well, but also has a lot to learn. McCarron has some experience, but most of his time was on the sideline. At DB, the experience is there, but Gaines was a great fit for this defense. Replacing him with Davis may be a bit of a wash overall. White looked great as a rookie, but there could be a "sophomore slump". Our RBs are long in the tooth, and with a (perceived) worse offensive line, their overall production could take a hit. Then there's Daboll...unknown, and lacks experience in the NFL. So in relation to this year, I think the Bills take a step back, especially if you consider that they overachieved a bit last year, and had some luck along the way as well. I still think they're a 6-8 win team, but mainly due to the improvements on defense. Most of their additions there are seasoned vets, so experience won't be an issue. Now, if you were asking about 2-3 years from now, I think we're in great shape, talent wise and cap wise. We'll see how Allen factors into that, but I'm rather optimistic that he'll turn out ok at the very least, as opposed to busting. Edited May 8, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat 1
berg1029 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 the offensive line being worse is going to make a lot of those other position groups look worse on offense.
elltrain22 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I really don’t think it’s going to be as bad as people are saying. Losing Glenn really doesn’t affect anything. He’s barely played the last couple seasons. Dawkins stepped in and did awesome last year. Incognito was on the downslope of his career. He’s 34 years old and maybe had one more year left. I loved Eric Wood but he was pretty average. We signed Jeff Bodine in the offseason to play center and we also have Groy who has been a very solid backup for us. Glenn is a moot point bc he barely was ever on the field. Dawkins was great in his rookie season, but you hope he can stay healthy and continue to improve. Kinda scary that our best OL is in his sophmore season. Both Newhouse & Russel Bodine are backup/depth guys at best, and if we have to count on these playing alot, we are really in trouble. Groy is a nice swing lineman, but def not anything to get excited about
Tatonka68 Posted May 9, 2018 Author Posted May 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy. Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score? 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy. Where did they take a step back? 10 hours ago, DCOrange said: From this perspective, I'm just focusing on the short-term since you're putting it in the context of whether or not this team will be better this year: 1. Worse 2. Same 3. Worse 4. Worse 5. Better 6. Same or slightly better 7. Worse On top of this, I don't think Buffalo was really a 9 win team last year. I'd say they played like a 7ish win team and are probably worse this year. McCarron > Tyrod Peterman = Peterman Allen ??? so how are QB's worse??
JerseyBills Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: I'll answer that question... Because we're not very good - even if we're better. Both our offense and defense were ranked in the bottom half of the league last year. Timely take-aways and minimal turnovers gave us a winning record. We can't count on the getting take-aways at critical times this year. Phenomenal coaching tends to do that
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score? Where did they take a step back? McCarron > Tyrod Peterman = Peterman Allen ??? so how are QB's worse?? I know that you believe that but most of the league doesn’t. I don’t know if you’ve watched McCarron’s pro career to date but it hasn’t been very good. There has been a substantial drop off from Dalton despite great pass catchers. He’s averaged less passing yards than TT as well and is nowhere near as mobile. I think that people that hated Tyrod have this vision of McCarron that just isn’t accurate. That’s why he got paid half of what Josh McCown did. Allen is the question mark. If he is good it is an upgrade. If he isn’t ready it is a downgrade. That was the point that it is “set up to be better long-term but is likely worse this year.” Allen is either the guy immediately or they are worse this year. Too often we fall into the trap of extreme opinions on Bills players because of our emotional investment. We overrate Kyle and underrate Tyrod. We underrated Sammy and overrated Freddie. That doesn’t mean that they are awful or great. They are just worse and better than our perception. The contracts around the league tell the story. Teams pay guys what they think comparable quality players are paid. Edited May 9, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1
Fadingpain Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 11 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory Homer analysis. The QB position is likely much worse, until Allen (if ever) comes up to speed.
The Now Moment Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory We will be in a lot of games with the solid defense and shady but who knows what to expect? McDermott took a team last year that was predicted to be garbage and broke the drought. We will see how we do but last year we had a lot of rookies that played really well. I think our success depends on how quickly this draft class develops. Edited May 9, 2018 by Buffalo30 1
BuffaloRebound Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 It’d be nice to get Allen a WR that can run past people. Coleman from Cleveland is supposedly odd man out and on trading block. He was highly thought of out of Baylor and hard to hold his last 2 years against him with Kizer and Kessler throwing him passes. 1
Adam727 Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better Is the running back roster better/worse? Better. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better. If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory 1. Worse 2. Same 3. Worse 4. MUCH worse 5. Better 6. Too soon to tell. I like the moves at this position but so far we swapped the NFL leading tackler for a Rookie with much bigger upside. 7. Worse
Tatonka68 Posted May 9, 2018 Author Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I know that you believe that but most of the league doesn’t. I don’t know if you’ve watched McCarron’s pro career to date but it hasn’t been very good. There has been a substantial drop off from Dalton despite great pass catchers. He’s averaged less passing yards than TT as well and is nowhere near as mobile. I think that people that hated Tyrod have this vision of McCarron that just isn’t accurate. That’s why he got paid half of what Josh McCown did. Allen is the question mark. If he is good it is an upgrade. If he isn’t ready it is a downgrade. That was the point that it is “set up to be better long-term but is likely worse this year.” Allen is either the guy immediately or they are worse this year. Too often we fall into the trap of extreme opinions on Bills players because of our emotional investment. We overrate Kyle and underrate Tyrod. We underrated Sammy and overrated Freddie. That doesn’t mean that they are awful or great. They are just worse and better than our perception. The contracts around the league tell the story. Teams pay guys what they think comparable quality players are paid. Tyrod did ZERO for the team. His best attribute is "he didn't turn the ball over", which means ZERO if you don't score. McCarron has more post season TD'S than Tyrod. 1 hour ago, Fadingpain said: Homer analysis. The QB position is likely much worse, until Allen (if ever) comes up to speed. I pretty sure that McCarron or Allen can pass for more than 56yards in a game. Tyrod did nothing last year.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Tyrod did ZERO for the team. His best attribute is "he didn't turn the ball over", which means ZERO if you don't score. McCarron has more post season TD'S than Tyrod. I pretty sure that McCarron or Allen can pass for more than 56yards in a game. Tyrod did nothing last year. Again, your emotions are clouding your judgement. Tyrod led 2 top 10 scoring offenses in his 3 years. You are dismissing the strengths while exaggerating the flaws. That is your way of justifying it. FWIW, as much as Tyrod struggled last year he still averaged more passing yards than McCarron (who played with Green, Sanu and a good Eiffert). What you think is the case and what IS actually the case are different. That is the point. Again, Allen is the long-term answer (hopefully). If he is the guy, the problem is solved. If he isn’t, we will be looking again in a couple of years. McCarron is simply a placeholder and potential back-up. I suggest you follow this thread in twitter to familiarize yourself with what actually happened when McCarron played: Edited May 9, 2018 by Kirby Jackson
DCOrange Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score? Where did they take a step back? McCarron > Tyrod Peterman = Peterman Allen ??? so how are QB's worse?? In my opinion, McCarron is likely significantly worse than Tyrod. Peterman is Peterman. Allen is a question mark as you said. I think he ends up starting very early and I personally think he’ll develop into a good starter but I don’t expect him to be better than Tyrod in his rookie season.
Tatonka68 Posted May 9, 2018 Author Posted May 9, 2018 1 offense TD against playoff Carolina. 1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta. 1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints 1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD 0 offense TDS against New England 0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game. Tyrod is gone get over it.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 1 offense TD against playoff Carolina. 1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta. 1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints 1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD 0 offense TDS against New England 0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game. Tyrod is gone get over it. Did you just become a Bills fan in 2017?
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 1 offense TD against playoff Carolina. 1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta. 1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints 1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD 0 offense TDS against New England 0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game. Tyrod is gone get over it. Again, no one is talking about Tyrod but you. We are just challenging the notion that McCarron is any sort of upgrade based on what he has done. You pick random things that you hated about Tyrod as your proof and bury your head in the sand regarding McCarron’s struggles at the pro level. He has actually been a worse pro, with better surrounding talent, than Taylor. There is a reason that he is making half of McCown, about 28% of Tyrod, 1/6th of Ryan, etc...The league has spoken pretty loudly. Now if you are referring to Allen we can discuss. He has massive upside and if he comes close to his potential he is absolutely an upgrade. That likely isn’t going to happen this year. If it does, fantastic!! The Bills even know that they are likely taking a step back to take a step forward. That’s why they keep saying things like, “this isn’t going to happen overnight.” The frustrating thing about discussing this with you is that you stick your fingers in your ears and scream “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA, I CANT HEAR YOU.” If you want to do that it’s up to you but that doesn’t strengthen your argument. While we are at it I don’t understand how you believe the RB position will be better? Ivory is maybe a slight upgrade from Tolbert but Shady is a year older and they are running behind a significantly worse OL. They lost a Pro Bowl LG, a former Pro Bowl C and one of the highest paid OTs in the league (despite his injury problems). How do you see that RB group improving?? 1
Ramza86 Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Tatonka68 said: Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score? Where did they take a step back? McCarron > Tyrod Peterman = Peterman Allen ??? so how are QB's worse?? The delusion is real. What Average Mcarron can do with his arm wont be more effective than what Tyrod did with his legs.
Bray Wyatt Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 for people saying our WR group is worse, is it because Thompson left? I dont see how it got worse, granted its not good but that doesnt mean it got worse than last year
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