Do we have the worst QB situation in the league?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

I think if Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen were the QB, you wouldn't see people throwing such a stink, I don't think experience has anything to do with it.

 

It doesn't matter though, the second Allen plays lights out, all the negativity and division go away.

 

Your last point is right-on, though it has its counter-point that the moment he puts together a streak of 4 bad games (and he will, because even great QB do), they'll reemerge.

 

I liked Mayfield and Rosen and felt, based on film, they were the most NFL ready.  So I would feel better about this season if they were our guys.  But I think you'd have just as much stink if they were, it would just be different stink from different people.  Darnold seemed to be most people's consensus "best QB" and less controversial, so maybe less there? 

 

The "experience" thing is my opinion based on reading what people are saying in the thread.  I think people are defining "worst" differently and that's maybe 85% of the disagreement.

Some people are all optimistic based on potential.  Other people are looking at NFL results and saying 'eek!'.  They're both valid points, they're just based on different ways of looking at it.  My $0.02 for whatever it's worth  (Edit: LOL I typed worst instead of worse.  Freudian field day.)

[Dr. Who]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think people are defining "worst" differently and that's maybe 85% of the disagreement.

Some people are all optimistic based on potential.  Other people are looking at NFL results and saying 'eek!'.  They're both valid points, they're just based on different ways of looking at it.  My $0.02 for whatever it's worst

Equivocity of key terms is what is causing some confusion.  It is also why the argument often leads to folks talking past one another.  Imo, worst most accurately implies a judgment based on performance.  No doubt, optimists are projecting based on potential.  Pessimists are also projecting (in Allen's case, they are interpreting college data without allowing for a context that could plausibly admit more promise.)  I think it is more correct to say the Bills have one of the most unclear qb situations; because of that, one has the equivalent of an inkblot test where individuals largely see what they are temperamentally inclined to see.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Dr. Who

[Sky Diver]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your last point is right-on, though it has its counter-point that the moment he puts together a streak of 4 bad games (and he will, because even great QB do), they'll reemerge.

 

I liked Mayfield and Rosen and felt, based on film, they were the most NFL ready.  So I would feel better about this season if they were our guys.  But I think you'd have just as much stink if they were, it would just be different stink from different people.  Darnold seemed to be most people's consensus "best QB" and less controversial, so maybe less there? 

 

The "experience" thing is my opinion based on reading what people are saying in the thread.  I think people are defining "worst" differently and that's maybe 85% of the disagreement.

Some people are all optimistic based on potential.  Other people are looking at NFL results and saying 'eek!'.  They're both valid points, they're just based on different ways of looking at it.  My $0.02 for whatever it's worth  (Edit: LOL I typed worst instead of worse.  Freudian field day.)

 

I think that there will be a vocal contingent of fans that will never accept Allen no matter how well he plays. The will continue to find fault if he is less than perfect.

 

The reality is we don't know how any of the top four QBs will perform when they step on the field.

 

I'm optimistic about Allen and McCarron and I don't think Peterman is nearly as bad as he is made out to be here.

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

No. The Broncos do. They traded away a solid starter in Siemian, and paid big money for a journeyman QB who has been garbage for all but 1 season in his career.

I’d rather have Case Keemun starting than

 

Bradford

Taylor

Flacco

Dalton

Bortles

Winston/one year

 

 

Jags have it the worst. Bortles is EJ. The only reason they didn’t lose to the Bills was because he is faster than Jerry Hughes. Such a good defense wasted.

[ghostwriter]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your last point is right-on, though it has its counter-point that the moment he puts together a streak of 4 bad games (and he will, because even great QB do), they'll reemerge.

 

I liked Mayfield and Rosen and felt, based on film, they were the most NFL ready.  So I would feel better about this season if they were our guys.  But I think you'd have just as much stink if they were, it would just be different stink from different people.  Darnold seemed to be most people's consensus "best QB" and less controversial, so maybe less there? 

 

The "experience" thing is my opinion based on reading what people are saying in the thread.  I think people are defining "worst" differently and that's maybe 85% of the disagreement.

Some people are all optimistic based on potential.  Other people are looking at NFL results and saying 'eek!'.  They're both valid points, they're just based on different ways of looking at it.  My $0.02 for whatever it's worth  (Edit: LOL I typed worst instead of worse.  Freudian field day.)

Agree. It would be a different stink for sure, for Darnold it'd be turnovers, for Mayfield it'd be height and a gimmicky college offense and for Rosen it'd be character and injury concerns.

 

It's going to come down to Rosen versus Allen, it's going to be discussed for a long long time. Let me say this though, how many drafts had Rosen #1? How many drafts had Allen #1? From what I read it was either Darnold or Allen most of the time, I wish the more critical fans would look at it from that perspective.

 

Allen has more ability than any QB in the draft, I like how you put it so eloquently when you said Rosen is more likely to be good and Allen is more likely to be great.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The number I stated was Games he started.  192, 200, 160, 212.  All full games.  What is the average of those 4 numbers? Is it 191 or isn't it?

If you average those 4 numbers and get 208.8, you learned a different arithmetic than is taught in any school I attended.

 

If someone says "Started a number of games, in which he averaged 191 ypg", you can argue "I think we should include all his games" or some such.

In which case his average that year would be ~122 ypg.  But it looks pretty foolish to tell someone they're incorrect if they're, you know, NOT, given the boundary conditions they clearly state.

 

Whether it's 122, 191, or 209, the point stands that McCarron's demonstrated NFL passing productivity as a starter to date is on a par with Tyrod's average in games he started, which is 201 ypg.  Which folks here have repeatedly informed all is entirely woeful and inadequate.

 

Now maybe McCarron has taken a step and/or will do better throwing to Benjamin and Zay Jones and Clay and whoever than he did throwing to AJ Green, Sanu, and Eifert.

We can all hope so as fans, if he starts.  But until it happens, it's just opinion and potential, it's not demonstrated NFL ability.

I think it may be worthy of some thought.  

 

When McCarron came into his first (real) NFL game he threw for 280 yds, 2 TD's, 2 INT's  and went 22/32 against Pitt in a LOSS. 

His first GS was a WIN against San Francisco 24-14.  McCarron threw for 192 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT and went 15/21 

His 2nd GS was against Denver a  20-17 LOSS in OT.  McCarron threw for 200 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT and went 22/35 

His 3rd GS was a WIN against Denver 24-16.  McCarron threw for 160 yds, 2 TD, 0 INT and went 17/27

 

His 4th GS was a Playoff game against Pitt.

McCarron threw for 212 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT and went 23/41.   He had the Bengals up 16-15  with 1:30 to go in the 4th.

 

Cincinnati might want to do the same after somehow losing despite rallying from a 15-point deficit to have the lead and the ball in Pittsburgh territory and the lead with 1:30 to go.

Then the Bengals turned into ... the Bengals.

 

Hill was stripped of the ball by Ryan Shazier while trying to run out the clock. The Steelers recovered at the Pittsburgh 9, and Roethlisberger and his aching right shoulder returned for a last-gasp drive. Unable to pass with any real authority, he still managed to get the Steelers near midfield with 22 seconds to go when he threw high to Brown in Cincinnati territory.

 

Burfict, whose sack of Roethlisberger sent the quarterback to the locker room, lowered his shoulder as Brown landed. The volatile linebacker earned a personal foul. Jones compounded the problem when he lost his cool while jawing with Porter, easily putting Boswell within field goal range after Cincinnati's eighth -- and final -- flag of a ghastly night that ended with an unthinkable collapse.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/recap/_/gameId/400820428

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I agree with this entire post. Well said. 

 

 

 Cle:  So sorry. I take Tyrod over McCarron and Mayfield over Allen every single time. 

 

Chi: Trubisky is a better prospect than Allen. Sorry. 

 

indy: It all depends on Luck’s health. If healthy, there’s no contest. Wait and see. 

 

Jax:  Bortles. Wow.  It would depend on what Allen becomes. Bortles is serviceable. No QB on the Bills has proven to be so yet. 

 

Mia:  Ditto

 

Hou:  Ditto except Watson showed to be better than serviceable before being injured. 

 

Bal:  Seriously?  Flacco has fallen off considerably since he was Super Bowl MVP.  But he was, you know, Super Bowl MVP - and he’s still better than anyone on the Bills roster has shown to be.

 

i hope the Bills QB roster far exceeds my expectations - and I’ll be rooting for them all - but take the rose colored glasses off for just a sec. 

 

I have and Each Team listed has big ?s at QB and you can say each of their respective QB room is arguably worse when you facter in injuries and money. 

[John from Riverside]

We certainly have one of the most "unknown"

 

Worst?  I dont know yet.

[ndirish1978]

You could say we have the worst situation. I prefer to say we have the least established QB room in the league. Our presumed vet starter could be great, or he could stink; same goes for our rookie QB. I prefer to think of it as a high-upside room, but yeah we could be in for a rough few years if our FO was wrong about this. 

[Boca BIlls]

9 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I looked at the 2015 numbers real quick. I also assumed McCarron started the week 13 game, just for easier math.

 

2015 Andy Dalton:
12 Games, 66.1% Completions, 8.38 YPA, 266 YPG, 6.56% TD%, 1.57% INT%

 

2015 AJ McCarron:

5 Games, 63.5% Completions, 6.69 YPA, 209 YPG, 4.49% TD%, 1.92% INT%

 

Hoping for even Dalton-like production out of McCarron is still a stretch, imo.

To keep it even can we compare Dalton's first 5 games to McCarron's. The fact that Dalton has been a starter and is only marginally better than McCarron who was just starting is actually a good thing for us.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Boca BIlls said:

To keep it even can we compare Dalton's first 5 games to McCarron's. The fact that Dalton has been a starter and is only marginally better than McCarron who was just starting is actually a good thing for us.

That's not marginally better, that is significantly better. And the reason they are compared as they are is because they played on the same team with the same coaches and same weapons. There is no better comparison.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

To keep it even can we compare Dalton's first 5 games to McCarron's. The fact that Dalton has been a starter and is only marginally better than McCarron who was just starting is actually a good thing for us.

Excellent point. 

 

We can hope.   Lets not despair ? 

5 years to 5  games experience.  

 

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[John from Riverside]

hard to know how AJM is gonna do because he honestly has not played that much.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

hard to know how AJM is gonna do because he honestly has not played that much.

 

 

No, he has not.  But he faced some very good teams and played well enough to win 2 and lose 2 by 2 and 3 points.  

[John from Riverside]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

No, he has not.  But he faced some very good teams and played well enough to win 2 and lose 2 by 2 and 3 points.  

My point is that he may be much better then his play thus far indicates.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The last was because a guy fumbled at the Steelers 9 and Burfict and someone else has back to back 15 yard penalties costing the Bungles the game. 

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

My point is that he may be much better then his play thus far indicates.

 

 

Agreed.   

[wppete]

Jordan Palmer said on the Dan Patrick show that Josh Allen is the most talented WB he has ever seen. Planner has played in the NFL and has worked with many of the recent top QBs coming out.

 

 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

To keep it even can we compare Dalton's first 5 games to McCarron's. The fact that Dalton has been a starter and is only marginally better than McCarron who was just starting is actually a good thing for us.

 

Those numbers aren’t “marginally better.” They are much, much, better. 

 

[Buffalo716]

No

[Teddy KGB]

We had it last year, not sure about this year.