Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: That's great stuff. Plenty of details. One thing that's changed under McBeane is that they aren't afraid to tell you stuff. They are confident about what they can and can't say, and they share information. That's great for the fans. One question. Beane says he knew very very little about the qbs on the day the Jets traded up. Beand saod, essentially, that he was in no position to make a move like that at that time. Well, the Jets traded a boat load to get to three, so they to know there were three qbs they would take. How could they be so sure about threw when Beane didn't know anything? Were the Jets just stupid and got lucky? I think a couple of things can be inferred: 1) Beane is prevaricating. I don't think the exact quite was "very very little" but he certainly did try to give that impression ("I've only met with these guys for 15 minutes"). Yet at the Combine, he said he had told his scouts to set the draft board as though they were going to "draft tomorrow" and then they would revisit it after the combine and pro days etc. How could they do that if they really knew so very very little? They would be setting it without data, it would make no sense. 2) The Jets made the trade because they knew enough to believe there were 3 QB available that they wanted at #3 OR they had intel that Gettleman was all in on keeping the pick and drafting a QB and there were 2 QB they wanted #3 (I'm gonna guess the latter), but not 4. 3) The Bills did NOT make the trade at that point because, trading up from pick #12 vs pick #6, they would have had to give up a much bigger haul, and they weren't certain they had 2 or 3 QBs for whom they were willing to give up that size of a haul (almost certainly 2 1sts this year, 1 1st next year, and a bunch of 2nds this year and next)
BillsFan4 Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Just now, Shaw66 said: That's great stuff. Plenty of details. One thing that's changed under McBeane is that they aren't afraid to tell you stuff. They are confident about what they can and can't say, and they share information. That's great for the fans. One question. Beane says he knew very very little about the qbs on the day the Jets traded up. Beand saod, essentially, that he was in no position to make a move like that at that time. Well, the Jets traded a boat load to get to three, so they to know there were three qbs they would take. How could they be so sure about threw when Beane didn't know anything? Were the Jets just stupid and got lucky? I read numerous pieces from the NY media that said Mike Maccagnan sold Woody Johnson well over a year ago on going all in and doing whatever it took to get one of the top 4 QBs in this class (hence all the veteran players cut and the pretty much unprecedented trade up to #3 6 weeks before the draft (when has that ever happened before?)). Id have to dig up the articles again, but the impression I got was Maccagnan basically bet his job on landing one of these top 4 QBs, so not getting one of the 4 was not an option for him. I think it also comes down to Beane and McDermott being much more thorough and calculating, and Maccagnan being a bit more reckless. The Jets hadn't even had a chance to sit and talk with any of these QBs before that trade up, and had no idea which one of 3 they would land. Smells like desperation to me...
WotAGuy Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Logic said: Yeah, it's just...I live in Portland, Oregon, so having a Buffalo newspaper subscription doesn't make a ton of sense for me. Even in terms of "home town coverage", I'm from Rochester, so....I dunno. I can't seem to justify it in my mind. So you can’t see the Logic in it? 1
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: The Jets hadn't even had a chance to sit and talk with any of these QBs before that trade up, and had no idea which one of 3 they would land. Smells like desperation to me... hey hey .. desperation maybe - or he had done his research and felt #3 QB was worth the trade up and #2 QB would be a bonus with #1 QB the icing. It appears that the Jets GM has done well this offseason - of course games still need to be played. That said, I liked our GM's approach to the whole thing. 1
zevo Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Fadingpain said: I can't read the article. Maybe someone can answer a question: Did Beane make it clear that he would have taken Josh Allen at #5 had the deal with Denver happened? Who was the target at #5 if Denver is willing to deal with us? Who else would they have picked at 5? 1 1
Cheektowaga Chad Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 This makes me wonder how high they had Edmunds rated, if he was sticking out on their board at pick 13. Top 5 or 6?
Boca BIlls Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 3 hours ago, mannc said: What’s interesting is that the Bills would not have given up much more (if any) to move up to 5. And that TB, not Buffalo, was the one who initiated the deal at 7, although I’m sure they had spoken. Good stuff. #22 in the first round is light years better than anything else you can think of the Bills had.
BillsFan4 Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) Just now, IgotBILLStopay said: hey hey .. desperation maybe - or he had done his research and felt #3 QB was worth the trade up and #2 QB would be a bonus with #1 QB the icing. It appears that the Jets GM has done well this offseason - of course games still need to be played. That said, I liked our GM's approach to the whole thing. I am sure Maccagnan had done as much research as he could have at that point in time. But if its true that this was his plan over over a year ago, Darnold and Allen had only played a single season at that point and Rosen had just missed the 2nd half of the season with a bad shoulder injury (to his throwing shoulder IIRC), so he had only played 1 & 1/2 seasons. A LOT can change over the course of a year... Christian Hackenberg was the next great thing and sure fire #1 overall pick after his first year in college. Matt Barkley was thought to be a potential top 3-4 pick if he had entered the draft in 2012 (Luck/RGIII) and after he didn't declare most thought he'd be a top pick in 2013 (he ended up going in the 3rd IIRC and 5 years later hasn't really done anything in the NFL). Plus, like I mentioned, since scouts aren't allowed to talk to college players during the season, the Jets hadn't had a chance to even meet with the QBs personally at the point of that trade. Maybe a couple of them for a grand total of 15mins at the senior bowl/combine. Pre draft visits hadn't happened yet. Private workouts hadn't happened yet. The Jets took a big gamble IMO. When has Any team ever traded up to #3 6 weeks before the draft? It just comes off as a team willing to just throw a dart at one of these QBs and hope it sticks. Like you said, I like our GMs approach better. He vetted these QBs as fully as possible, using every available avenue to do so, waited to see if the actual guy(s) he wanted were still on the board, and only then did he decide to move up and take a shot on that QB. And the Jets may very well end up being lucky with their pick. But it still doesn't necessarily mean their method was right... Edited May 5, 2018 by BillsFan4
Logic Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 It is an absolute MIRACLE that the Bills got to use both 1st round picks, landed a quarterback AND Tremaine Edmunds, AND somehow also did not give up any of next year's picks. All because the Browns took Denzel Ward. What a crazy league. By the way...as good as I feel about the direction of the Bills this offseason...Think about NEXT offseason! They have about $90 million in cap space, their full complement of draft picks, and you KNOW they'll be looking to surround Allen with talent. Exciting times. 4
BillsFan17 Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Shaw66 said: That's great stuff. Plenty of details. One thing that's changed under McBeane is that they aren't afraid to tell you stuff. They are confident about what they can and can't say, and they share information. That's great for the fans. One question. Beane says he knew very very little about the qbs on the day the Jets traded up. Beand saod, essentially, that he was in no position to make a move like that at that time. Well, the Jets traded a boat load to get to three, so they to know there were three qbs they would take. How could they be so sure about threw when Beane didn't know anything? Were the Jets just stupid and got lucky? I feel like there is a bit of fabrication with the "we didnt know who we wanted" at that point. Sure they may have needed more one on one time, but you have been scouting these kids for how long? You dont put all your eggs in a QBs basket without having a good body of information on them. One thing I remember reading during the draft process about teams working out/setting up visits with these QBs... Not so much to read into them as forgone interest in the spec, but could help the team gauge a little bit in terms of- they may already have their guy in mind and want to see if anyone in the field can do enough to change their mind. 1
BuffaloRebound Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Seems like Beane made sure he was the only team the Giants and Browns would’ve traded down with and then honed in on the Broncos knowing one of his top 3 QB’s was gonna be there at 5 if Beane wasn’t doing a deal with Giants or Browns. With the Jets trading to 3 almost 2 months before the draft, seems like Bills and Jets both viewed this draft as having 3 top QB’s. Rosen really must’ve rubbed teams the wrong way. 2
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) BTW, the real info in that interview was for the Saints Fans - Now we know why Saints had to part with an arm and a leg for #14 from the Packers. They were bidding against the Bills, who only needed to move from #22 (as opposed to #27). One way to assess how good the draft strategy was is to see if we overreached - could we have gotten the same player with a lower pick? It is still possible Bills could have gotten Allen at 10, but we know for sure they couldnt have gotten Edmunds below since Chargers were picking him at 17. Edited May 5, 2018 by IgotBILLStopay
zevo Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: BTW, the real info in that interview was for the Saints Fans - Now we know why Saints had to part with an arm and a leg for #14 from the Packers. They were bidding against the Bills, who only needed to move from #22 (as opposed to #27). One way to assess how good the draft strategy was is to see if we overreached - could we have gotten the same player with a lower pick? It is still possible Bills could have gotten Allen at 10, but we know for sure they couldnt have gotten Edmunds below since Chargers were picking him at 17. The Bills were not getting Allen at 10 1
Mat68 Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 13 hours ago, Fadingpain said: I can't read the article. Maybe someone can answer a question: Did Beane make it clear that he would have taken Josh Allen at #5 had the deal with Denver happened? Who was the target at #5 if Denver is willing to deal with us? He wasnt trading up for Nelson. I think the answer is obvious. Allen was the target everywhere from 3 on. The trade was agreed on, only contigent was unless the Broncos guy was there. That guy was Chubb..
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, zevo said: The Bills were not getting Allen at 10 Only said it is "possible" - not that it is "likely" we dont know whether arizona was offering something worthwhile to Tampa Bay to trade down - though I'd be surprised if they didnt
bkep32 Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Glad it worked out they way it did....per pft..http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/05/bills-tried-to-trade-up-with-browns-broncos-before-getting-josh-allen-at-no-7/ I dunno if i would have liked allen at 5 for the 2firsts and a 2nd. Deal was in place all depending on if chubb was there at 5 or not. So once again thank you cleveland for taking ward. 2
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Absolutely. We do either of the deals with Cleveland or Denver and we can kiss Edmunds good bye. If Edmunds goes on to be a perennial pro bowl type player we will thank our lucky stars Beane held steadfast on not giving up two first rounders. 2
Doc Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Hopefully he took the right QB at 7. Otherwise it means little.
Magnum Force Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 Assuming we made no trades and both Allen and Edmunds would have fell to pick 12 (this was pre draft ) I was debating on which outcome I would rather have....Allen at 12 and Vander Esch at 22 or Edmunds at 12 and Jackson/Rudolph at 22
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