Are you a fan of Josh Allen?

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Magnum Force said:

If Josh Allen's completion percentage would have been 10% higher....we wouldn't be talking about him on Two Bills Drive forum right now.  

 

There is a lot more to predictive success for a QB than his CFB numbers.

[Wayne Arnold]

47 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

There's a difference between rooting for Allen to be good or even great (which I think every Bills' fan is doing) and being convinced that he will based on what he has shown.  We'll all have to wait and see what the outcome is beginning next weekend. 

 

Anyone who is "convinced" that Allen will be good or great is fooling him/herself. No one knows how a quarterback will turn out in the NFL. There are so many variables, most of which are out of the player's control. 

 

My issue is that the backlash over this kid being chosen in the Top 10 was absolutely ludicrous. If you actually watch him play at Wyoming with the understanding of his environment and how he lead his teammates despite the issues, you'd understand that he should have been the #1 pick. Doesn't mean he will be successful in the league. But there's no doubt in my mind that the only reason he wasn't chosen #1 by the Browns was because of the social media analytics warriors who bashed him day after day for four straight months.

 

http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/04/josh_allens_accuracy_issues_ha.html

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Anyone who is "convinced" that Allen will be good or great is fooling him/herself. No one knows how a quarterback will turn out in the NFL. There are so many variables, most of which are out of the player's control. 

 

My issue is that the backlash over this kid being chosen in the Top 10 was absolutely ludicrous. If you actually watch him play at Wyoming with the understanding of his environment and how he lead his teammates despite the issues, you'd understand that he should have been the #1 pick. Doesn't mean he will be successful in the league. But there's no doubt in my mind that the only reason he wasn't chosen #1 by the Browns was because of the social media analytics warriors who bashed him day after day for four straight months.

 

http://www.mlive.com/sports/2018/04/josh_allens_accuracy_issues_ha.html

 

Talk to one of your ex-girlfriends. Maybe they can help you. 

[Magnum Force]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

There is a lot more to predictive success for a QB than his CFB numbers.

Nice one and true.

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Talk to one of your ex-girlfriends. Maybe they can help you. 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

Irony. 

[Rockpile233]

OBV

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Talk to one of your ex-girlfriends. Maybe they can help you. 

Is this football related or more insults? 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This x 10.  

 

You would think for a guy who just got warned by a mod for insulting he’d learn a lesson.  

 

If you want respect 26CB you need yo give respect.  

[stuvian]

I went into the draft wanting Lamar Jackson but I've bought in

[Magnum Force]

Nothing like some Love and Hip Hop to unite the fan base. 

[SoTier]

22 hours ago, dlonce said:

 

In another post I pointed to people who do not know enough about what a good QB looks like to make the mistakes you have.

JP, Trent, EJ and Tyrod were not ever good QBs,they never were going to be good QBs.You fell in love with these guys,probably like your love for Rosen.

 

You’re a fan, you want your QB to succeed,that’s normal.

 

Youve applied past failures as your litmust test to the future results. I’m going to go opposite of what you have said because of your past, but now you’ve learned. You go by what you see,not because you’re a homer.

 

So, what is it you see? Is it independent thought or are you listening to the clowns on sports talk radio?

Give us something better than a 56% completion rate. The difference between 56% and 60% is minimal.

 

 

How, exactly, is Josh Allen all that different from JP Losman or EJ Manuel?   All three were NOT the consensus best player in their draft class, which is pretty much the closest a QB comes to being a "sure thing" in the draft, but all three were first round picks.  All three were  selected in the first round because the Bills were set on drafting a QB in the first round.  All three were considered "projects" who would have to sit for a season or two to be ready for the NFL because they all had faults with their mechanics.  For the record, no first round QB considered a "project" has developed into a successful NFL QB in the last two or three decades, and that has been what has so many Bills fans worried.

 

That you lumped Edwards and Taylor, neither of whom were first rounders, together with failed first rounders as "bad QBs" demonstrates that YOU don't know what you're talking about.  Drafting a QB in the top ten doesn't necessarily make him better than other first QBs.  Vince Young was drafted #3, Jake Locker #8, and Blaine Gabbert #10.  Aaron Rodgers was drafted at #24.  Russell Wilson was a third round pick, and of course Tom Brady was a flyer taken in the sixth round.

[Bills Freak]

On 5/5/2018 at 7:57 AM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You must be a blast at parties.

I felt the same at first but then I watched every game Allen played that I could my eyes on. I think this is different. My eternal hope is at play, I admit. He seems to have some qualities the others didn't display.

[Troll Toll]

We picked him so I’m pulling hard for the kid now. Before the draft I didn’t want him. I think the Bills made a lot of good personnel decisions last year, so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Wayne Arnold]

40 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

How, exactly, is Josh Allen all that different from JP Losman or EJ Manuel?   All three were NOT the consensus best player in their draft class, which is pretty much the closest a QB comes to being a "sure thing" in the draft, but all three were first round picks.  All three were  selected in the first round because the Bills were set on drafting a QB in the first round.  All three were considered "projects" who would have to sit for a season or two to be ready for the NFL because they all had faults with their mechanics.  For the record, no first round QB considered a "project" has developed into a successful NFL QB in the last two or three decades, and that has been what has so many Bills fans worried.

 

That you lumped Edwards and Taylor, neither of whom were first rounders, together with failed first rounders as "bad QBs" demonstrates that YOU don't know what you're talking about.  Drafting a QB in the top ten doesn't necessarily make him better than other first QBs.  Vince Young was drafted #3, Jake Locker #8, and Blaine Gabbert #10.  Aaron Rodgers was drafted at #24.  Russell Wilson was a third round pick, and of course Tom Brady was a flyer taken in the sixth round.

 

Losman and Manuel were chosen in the first round because the Bills chose them. Otherwise both likely would have fallen into the 2nd Round or later.

 

Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process, was strongly considered to be the #1 pick by the Browns and would have been chosen in the Top 10 by another team if the Bills hadn't chosen him first.

 

That's the difference.

[BringBackFergy]

I have read about an affliction called “media induced pre-selection amorousity” which basically means if an expert on national or local talk shows uses the phrase “NFL ready”, “pinpoint accuracy”, “intelligent” or “tennis prodigy” you must declare that individual the exact person who should be selected by your team. The Rosenites will pound their chest and scream at the top of their lungs that we are wrong for trusting in the process. There is no known antidote to this affliction. We can only watch them collapse in a heap and whine about what might have been had we chosen the right person. 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Losman and Manuel were chosen in the first round because the Bills chose them. Otherwise both likely would have fallen into the 2nd Round or later.

 

Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process, was strongly considered to be the #1 pick by the Browns and would have been chosen in the Top 10 by another team if the Bills hadn't chosen him first.

 

That's the difference.

 

You don't know that for a fact. If the Bills hadn't traded up, it's possible that neither does Arizona or maybe the Cards always wanted Rosen and would have taken him with the tenth pick even with Allen available so that Allen would have been available at #12.  Not what actually happened nor what might have happened changes the Allen's quality as a NFL QB prospect.  He is what he is, at #7 or #12 or at #22.

 

Moreover, "Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process" is simply hype from the media draft mavens; he was only a "Top 10" pre-draft because the talking heads said he was.  Allen's stock rose significantly only after his Combine performance IIRC, so he might not have actually been "always a Top 10 pick throughout the process".  He was a good story, and after Carson Wentz's meteoric rise and his Combine, there was a lot more interest in a kid from ND State.  Those same talking heads claimed that Sam Darnold was the best QB in the draft ... until he wasn't, and Cleveland didn't take either when they could have, did they?  They took the QB who actually produced in games, not just in shorts and controlled situations, and who demonstrated accuracy, good mechanics, knowledge of the game, on-field leadership, etc. 

 

Mayfield and Rosen were the best prospects in this draft, and Mayfield was better than Rosen because he doesn't have the concussion injury.  That's a very valid reason IMO to downgrade him, and I think it factored into evaluations.  Darnold and Allen only really had excuses for why they didn't do was well as Mayfield or Rosen; the excuses were a constant whenever the media experts listed their QBs.  Now, maybe some or all of the excuses were legit, but Allen is still the same thing that Losman and Manuel were: a project QB who has a greater chance of busting than succeeding as an NFL QB, and that's not because of where he was drafted but because of the skills and talents he has or doesn't have.

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Dang. 91% approval rating??  Nice. You probably can't even get that on Patsfans.com message board for Tom Brady.

 

I wasn't a big fan leading up to the draft or even in the moment of the draft. But glad to see we have pretty much all come around to him and will support him.

[Wayne Arnold]

26 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You don't know that for a fact. If the Bills hadn't traded up, it's possible that neither does Arizona or maybe the Cards always wanted Rosen and would have taken him with the tenth pick even with Allen available so that Allen would have been available at #12.  Not what actually happened nor what might have happened changes the Allen's quality as a NFL QB prospect.  He is what he is, at #7 or #12 or at #22.

 

Moreover, "Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process" is simply hype from the media draft mavens; he was only a "Top 10" pre-draft because the talking heads said he was.  Allen's stock rose significantly only after his Combine performance IIRC, so he might not have actually been "always a Top 10 pick throughout the process".  He was a good story, and after Carson Wentz's meteoric rise and his Combine, there was a lot more interest in a kid from ND State.  Those same talking heads claimed that Sam Darnold was the best QB in the draft ... until he wasn't, and Cleveland didn't take either when they could have, did they?  They took the QB who actually produced in games, not just in shorts and controlled situations, and who demonstrated accuracy, good mechanics, knowledge of the game, on-field leadership, etc. 

 

Mayfield and Rosen were the best prospects in this draft, and Mayfield was better than Rosen because he doesn't have the concussion injury.  That's a very valid reason IMO to downgrade him, and I think it factored into evaluations.  Darnold and Allen only really had excuses for why they didn't do was well as Mayfield or Rosen; the excuses were a constant whenever the media experts listed their QBs.  Now, maybe some or all of the excuses were legit, but Allen is still the same thing that Losman and Manuel were: a project QB who has a greater chance of busting than succeeding as an NFL QB, and that's not because of where he was drafted but because of the skills and talents he has or doesn't have.

 

 

"You don't know that for a fact."

 

Later...

 

"(The notion of Allen being a Top 10 pick) is simply hype from the media draft mavens; he was only a 'Top 10' pre-draft because the talking heads said he was."

 

Um, yeah...they said Allen was a Top 10 pick and they were exactly right about that. And he's not any more of a "project quarterback" than Mayfield (spread system) or Darnold (sophomore, lots of picks) or Rosen (inconsistent play) or any other quartarback that has come out in recent history.

 

Listen, dude - you're entitled to ignore legitimate information in order to believe whatever you want. People do it every day. I'm not going to waste anymore time on someone with such a myopic view and poor grasp of logic...and thinks Josh Allen went to North Dakota State. You do you.

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Woulda Coulda Shoulda. If we drafted Wilson seventh overall I'd have the same doubts so I'm having right now about Allen. Third-round he's a steal, 7th overall at that time don't know. I'm saying we picked a kid, 7th overall, who hasn't shown me anything in college. So I go by what I see,  you go by what it could be. I hope you're right. The one thing I won't do, like everybody else on the board seems to do, is recreate the past and make excuses for it. The kids got a lot of proving to do.

He hasn’t shown you a thing?  You clearly mean he hasn’t shown you that he can complete passes at a 60% clip while running for his life with bum WRs.  He’s shown that he has a generational arm, great mobility and can move the chains with his legs, the ability to throw on the run and make throws that no other QB can make.  If he hasn’t shown you that, then your just hating.  

 

He needs work. No doubt about it.  Darnold needs work. Mayfield needs work. Rosen needs mobility and an unscrambled brain.

 

now it’s up to our brain trust to develop him.

17 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Yeah I'mnot trying to be Debbie Downer here. It's just that he was my least favorite going in because I saw a lot of hesitation after his first read was covered. I saw a lot of bolting out of the pocket that was otherwise clean.  I don't know it's just a lot going on that I didn't like. But I hope, beyond all hope, he's the exception that blossoms at this level. I want a legit franchise QB more than you can imagine. I'm 55 years into following and loving this team.

By saying he hasn’t shown you anything is being a Debbie downer.  He’s shown a lot.  he’s also shown a lot of bad.  No question.  Problem is, you only focus on the bad.  Your choice.  Have fun

16 hours ago, JM57 said:

Thanks for this. This is how I feel. I was a Rosen guy in the week leading up to the draft. I really, truly felt that Allen would be a mistake, especially on the Bills, because of the WR/OL situation, and of course, because of Battered Bills Fan Syndrome. When the trade happened, I was so nervous.

 

When Goodell said "The Buffalo Bills select Josh--" I held my breath and waited for them to not screw it up. And then they did. I felt as though I just received a swift kick in the nuts. I sat in silence with my head in my hands for a good 10 minutes. I was absolutely demoralized by it. Just when I thought maybe the guys in charge were different this time, they did THIS.

 

 

That being said, you can see the *tools* Allen has that they fell in love with. The question is whether they have the coaching staff (who knows) and personnel (definitely not right now) to turn those tools into on field production. I think he has a long way to go, and I hope they can prove me wrong. If not? Well, Allen will join the Manuel/Losman bust pile, and McDermott and Beane will be joining Gregg, Jauron, Donahoe etc in the hall of shame

Exactly how I felt.  But I didn’t sit there silent. 

 

Not only did did I choose to focus on the plus side of Allen after he was drafted, I took a closer look at the guy that I wanted.  A douchey kid that had 2 concussions last year, injury history and no mobility.  Then I looked at our OL.  I took into consideration that the RPO is a legit threat.  That McD really values a QBs ability to throw on the run and move outside the pocket.  Rosen’s lack of play in a cold climate and, again, his douchey attitude.  Now I’m happy.  Doesn’t mean we picked the right guy, but I feel MUCH better about the pick.

[26CornerBlitz]

16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He hasn’t shown you a thing?  You clearly mean he hasn’t shown you that he can complete passes at a 60% clip while running for his life with bum WRs.  He’s shown that he has a generational arm, great mobility and can move the chains with his legs, the ability to throw on the run and make throws that no other QB can make.  If he hasn’t shown you that, then your just hating.  

 

He needs work. No doubt about it.  Darnold needs work. Mayfield needs work. Rosen needs mobility and an unscrambled brain.

 

now it’s up to our brain trust to develop him.

By saying he hasn’t shown you anything is being a Debbie downer.  He’s shown a lot.  he’s also shown a lot of bad.  No question.  Problem is, you only focus on the bad.  Your choice.  Have fun

Exactly how I felt.  But I didn’t sit there silent. 

 

Not only did did I choose to focus on the plus side of Allen after he was drafted, I took a closer look at the guy that I wanted.  A douchey kid that had 2 concussions last year, injury history and no mobility.  Then I looked at our OL.  I took into consideration that the RPO is a legit threat.  That McD really values a QBs ability to throw on the run and move outside the pocket.  Rosen’s lack of play in a cold climate and, again, his douchey attitude.  Now I’m happy.  Doesn’t mean we picked the right guy, but I feel MUCH better about the pick.

 

To sum it all up.