ESPN Insider: Anonymous Execs weigh in on Bills picks and QBs

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have said all this too...they all had flaws.  We are talking about Rosen specifically here, not saying he was only one with flaws, but talking about why he slid.  No one said he isnt still a good prospect or cant overcome the concerns, including me.  I even said repeatedly I would have been excited to have him, he still is a talented prospects.  But of the 4 he was the one I wanted the least, and the guy I wanted to risk the least on in a trade up.  I would have been fine if the Bills took him at 7 in fact.  

 

I do think that Rosen compares much more to Jay Cutler than Aaron Rogers though.  Just absurd to compare him to Rogers, they are not remotely on the same level or the same type of player.  I think Jay Cutler is his ceiling personally...solid career, but not what I am targeting in the top 10.  

 

Josh Rosen is not a qb that all teams would be comfortable drafting. I just think that he has been unfairly stigmatized because he comes from a wealthy and accomplish family and because he himself is very intelligent with regards to football and also outside interests. I belatedly attached a link in my first post and I'm including it in this post to add more clarity to my position on him. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

[BadLandsMeanie]

16 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

For your information I am not jealous at all. I am perfectly happy with my situation in life, happily married and successful, and I would gladly kick the **** out of that punk if the opportunity presented itself. You have no idea who I am and what I am capable of. I was a guy who fought his way out of a life I was not destined for. I left with nothing and have built a great life with a woman I love for 21 years and could not be happier. To insinuate I would be intimidated by a 6'4" douchebag is laughable, I am 6'3" and 225 lbs myself, I also grew up fighting jackasses and do not fear people in that way. Live with your own fears and don't project them on people you don't know.

All that may be true and if it is I am glad for you.

 

But, you can be trolled. You are basically waving your button around and all I had to do was push it.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

 

Josh Rosen is not a qb that all teams would be comfortable drafting. I just think that he has been unfairly stigmatized because he comes from a wealthy and accomplish family and because he himself is very intelligent with regards to football and also outside interests. I belatedly attached a link in my first post and I'm including it in this post to add more clarity to my position on him. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

 

Well I couldn't disagree with more with your reasons though.  I don't care about his background, his smarts, etc.  None of that literally plays into the concerns.  When you say on national TV essentially your ego is so bruised that you are sulking, tuning out, and angry you don't go top 3 and need to "fake a smile" when drafted in the top 10, then you are announcing you are mentally weak and a bit of a poor sport.  People keep making this inaccurate excuse you just made, yet no one is bothered by any of that.  Its his actual pissy attitude, fake tough guy schtick, me first attitude, etc.

 

ZERO issues about him feeling he should have gone earlier, thinking the other teams made a mistake, etc.  But sulking and faking a smile when you are the 10th pick in the draft is weak and a poor attempt of acting tough. 

 

He puts on such a fake tough guy competitor act that its very off putting.  I don't care if he speaks his mind, but he is a poser when he does this schtick. Thats what I don't like.  I fear he wont handle losing, struggles, criticisms, etc well.  I don't think he cares enough either.  

 

No disrespect bud, just we see it very different.  I don't know that I am right, but thats my experience of him, and many others feel it too.  Time will tell...and I have nothing against him other than I don't care what he does anymore because he isnt a Bill.  GO ALLEN and GO BILLS.

[Nitro]

I get the same vibe on Rosen that I got with Jeff George. I wish the kid well but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way.  I am happy Josh Allen is on the Bills roster.  He has a bright future if he puts in the work and learns the art of being a NFL QB.

[White Linen]

14 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I get the same vibe on Rosen that I got with Jeff George. I wish the kid well but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way.  I am happy Josh Allen is on the Bills roster.  He has a bright future if he puts in the work and learns the art of being a NFL QB.

 

I don't like the Jim Kelly comparisons to Rosen.  It's such a different personality.  Kelly was a typical 1980's cocky jock (what we used to call em) - he was a tough guy with a ton of prick to him.  Does that sound like Rosen to anybody? 

 

He seems fragile and whiney, not a grinding rough and tough SOB.   Which was absolutely Kelly from the beginning.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, bills_believer said:

 

During that drill JP Losman was wearing a red jersey which meant that no one was supposed to touch him. I don't think Vincent intended to hurt him, but in that drill he shouldn't have even touched him. 

 

Of course everyone denied that it was intentional, but at the time there were those who said Losman was acting pretty cocky. 

 

From the Olean Times Herald at the time, "In his very first training camp, the California native came off as a bit cocky and when he was reportedly hot-dogging during a scramble, Losman was tagged by safety Troy Vincent, a popular team leader, and J.P. fell awkwardly, breaking his leg."

 

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/article_b93cd309-410f-5f5c-aa92-e4fa4c0e2470.html?mode=jqm

 

I don't want to pick a nit, but that article wasn't "at the time" - it was written in 2007, and revisionist history sometimes takes hold.

 

From ESPN article written at the time:

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/1866917

Calling the collision an accident, coach Mike Mularkey said: "Troy's not going to try to hurt anybody and J.P., he loosened up right there at the end -- you can't do that."

Vincent said the two collided when Losman attempted to cut back into the middle.

"I didn't hit him to tackle him, he was cutting back and I just happened to catch the blade of his shoulder pad," Vincent said. "I didn't know he had fallen. I just continued to run, and when I looked back, he was on the ground."

 

I mean, if guys who watched it at the time said it wasn't intentional, the coach said it wasn't intentional, and there's at least a plausible way for it to be unintentional, you know, maybe it was?

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, racketmaster said:

Biggest takeaways: 

1. There has to be something wrong with Rosen’s personality/character. Too many people don’t like the guy and in turn would pass on the player. 

2. Execs love the pick of Tremaine Edmunds and the fit in McDermott’s defense. 

 

Yeah, my biggest takeaway was the Rosen thing, too.

 

I mean, I seriously wanted Goodell to call his name when we traded up... like so much so that I threw my phone across the room... it's a flip phone, so it's fine.

 

But then when I heard several radio and TV interviews immediately after on draft night, I couldn't believe what a jackass he was. 

 

And those interviews were when my paradigm shift began, and it's continued as I've really really looked at Allen both on the field and off.

 

It's possible I'd make excuses for Rosen if we drafted him and he said the same things, but I don't think so. I've seen people comparing Rosen to Mayfield in terms of what was said as a means to excuse Rosen, portraying it as some double edged sword, but I think it'd be different with Mayfield because he wouldn't get all weirdly snobby and political with his comments.

 

I dunno... but evidently his personality is actually a pretty big problem.

[Putin]

5 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

If we drafted Allen because he's a  "cold weather quarterback" or because he "fits the City of Buffalo" we're dumber than I thought we are.  If we drafted him because we were looking for a "Cam Newton type" who can run a Carolina offense, then we're still pretty dumb.  If, however, we drafted him because he has a lot of impressive physical tools and because in two or three years the FO believes he can be an elite-level NFL quarterback, then we may be pretty smart.  Man, NFL executives are idiots.

How about if we drafted him for all those reasons ?? 

 

29 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What is the deal with thinking Buffalo is like !@#$ing Siberia? 

 

They play once a week on a Sunday. Buffalo doesn't get a !@#$ing blizzard every day. 

 

You dont need a big QB with a "cannon arm" because it's Buffalo. That shouldn't be a priority. Just draft a guy that can play QB. I feel like every time I read something from an exec about Buffalo that's always brought up. It's ridiculous. 

Until we get a new stadium ( dome ) don’t expect anything to change , 

[MJS]

5 hours ago, Ifartalot said:

Wish reporters would cut the crap.

 

Arizona was thrilled Rosen was there at 10 to trade up for and it cost them a lot less than what iffy Allen cost the Bills. 

 

 

 

But you don't actually know that to be true.

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What is the deal with thinking Buffalo is like !@#$ing Siberia? 

 

They play once a week on a Sunday. Buffalo doesn't get a !@#$ing blizzard every day. 

 

You dont need a big QB with a "cannon arm" because it's Buffalo. That shouldn't be a priority. Just draft a guy that can play QB. I feel like every time I read something from an exec about Buffalo that's always brought up. It's ridiculous. 

 

I agree with you. And when it's winter it get's cold most places in the US. A lot of places get snow, too, so if it's cold in Buffalo chances are it is cold most other places too.

[Coach Tuesday]

I for one love the anonymous rumblings from scouts, execs, agents and coaches, and wish there were more of it out there.

 

Did anyone else use to wait religiously for Len Pasquarelli's Friday "Tip Sheet"?  He had a "rumblings from around the NFL" section at the very end that I always found fascinating.  And Pro Football Weekly used to have a weekly "Whispers from Around the League" section that I couldn't wait to read.

 

I get why sourceless, largely unverified info is frowned upon as it probably should be - but a lot of the content turned out to be dead accurate.

[Zardoz]

10 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

i always love the cold, snow, wind reasoning for picking a QBs. Let's look at those blustery game conditions last year: 

sept 10- 67*

sept 17- 87*

sept 24- 90*

oct 1- Dome

oct 8- 71*

oct 22- 79*

oct 29- 44*

nov 2- 71*

nov 12- 42*

nov 19- 73*

nov 26- 65*

dec 3- 47*

dec10- 29* (snow game!)

dec17- 25*

dec24- 49*

dec 31- 75*

 

playoff: 55*

 

You don't draft a guy based on his ability to play in cold weather, when two of your games are below freezing. 

 

It may have been effectual to list the wind conditions for the games as well.  Temperature alone does not define "cold weather" conditions.

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I for one love the anonymous rumblings from scouts, execs, agents and coaches, and wish there were more of it out there.

 

Did anyone else use to wait religiously for Len Pasquarelli's Friday "Tip Sheet"?  He had a "rumblings from around the NFL" section at the very end that I always found fascinating.  And Pro Football Weekly used to have a weekly "Whispers from Around the League" section that I couldn't wait to read.

 

I get why sourceless, largely unverified info is frowned upon as it probably should be - but a lot of the content turned out to be dead accurate.

 

Equally Peter King's column often includes these sorts of whispers and they often come to be accurate. The whole reason I posted the thread about Rosen and Mayfield being off our board is because when the guy who told me explained how he had heard it sounded like a legit way for him to get info. People around the league talk to other people around the league off the record all the time. It is life. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

15 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

If we drafted Allen because he's a  "cold weather quarterback" or because he "fits the City of Buffalo" we're dumber than I thought we are.  If we drafted him because we were looking for a "Cam Newton type" who can run a Carolina offense, then we're still pretty dumb.  If, however, we drafted him because he has a lot of impressive physical tools and because in two or three years the FO believes he can be an elite-level NFL quarterback, then we may be pretty smart.  Man, NFL executives are idiots.

 

15 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

i always love the cold, snow, wind reasoning for picking a QBs. Let's look at those blustery game conditions last year: 

sept 10- 67*

sept 17- 87*

sept 24- 90*

oct 1- Dome

oct 8- 71*

oct 22- 79*

oct 29- 44*

nov 2- 71*

nov 12- 42*

nov 19- 73*

nov 26- 65*

dec 3- 47*

dec10- 29* (snow game!)

dec17- 25*

dec24- 49*

dec 31- 75*

 

playoff: 55*

 

You don't draft a guy based on his ability to play in cold weather, when two of your games are below freezing. 

 

I highly doubt that was the reason the Bills drafted him. I think maybe you're focusing on that quote to much. Here's the rest of that:

 

"It's a cold-weather quarterback who is big and strong, not frail and little, in a cold-weather city where it's windy,"

 

If anything, I would put more emphasis on the windy comment than the cold. It's rather windy in WNY, and especially so on the field at New Era. At least we know we have a guy that can throw in that wind, as opposed to not having one. Its a plus; a reason, not the reason he was drafted. 

 

And to be honest, last season was probably the warmest it's been in Orchard Park in some time. Using last season's game temps is probably not the best example. I was at the week 3 game, and it was brutally hot...and I live in Florida. It was hotter at the game than it was where I live that day. I would bet that the average temperature for home games last year was 15-20 degrees hotter than normal...just saying. I'd rather have a big and strong, not frail and little QB to play in those 20-30 below-freezing games over the course of 10 years than not. 

 

I'm guessing that the Bills drafted him for his overall talent and smarts, rather than being able to play in cold weather.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[4thandGoal]

11 hours ago, Ifartalot said:

Wish reporters would cut the crap.

 

Arizona was thrilled Rosen was there at 10 to trade up for and it cost them a lot less than what iffy Allen cost the Bills. 

 

 

your post is confusing because Arizona too wanted to trade for our "iffy" QB at 7. 

 

And as for the people who talk about Rosens personality. as long as he wins!!  Jim Kellys personality , off field antics,  press confernces, hesitant to come to Buffalo and other incidents didnt make him the perfect QB but JIm WON and that is all that counts. If social media was as big back then as it is now-- Jim would have been chastised severely

 

[Kemp]

My fear is that the Bills were prone to select Allen because of his arm strength and because he has the "look" of the prototypical NFL QB, despite his college stats being mind-numbingly poor, and I'm not just talking about his abysmal completion percentage.

 

This selection is a great example of gut feelings triumphing over analytics. 

 

No one knows how it will turn out, but my money will always go on analytics over gut feelings.

 

I hope so much that gut feeling win this time, because if it doesn't, the Bills just set themselves back another couple of seasons.

[formerlyofCtown]

12 hours ago, Ifartalot said:

Wish reporters would cut the crap.

 

Arizona was thrilled Rosen was there at 10 to trade up for and it cost them a lot less than what iffy Allen cost the Bills. 

 

 

They wanted Allen.

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I for one love the anonymous rumblings from scouts, execs, agents and coaches, and wish there were more of it out there.

 

Did anyone else use to wait religiously for Len Pasquarelli's Friday "Tip Sheet"?  He had a "rumblings from around the NFL" section at the very end that I always found fascinating.  And Pro Football Weekly used to have a weekly "Whispers from Around the League" section that I couldn't wait to read.

 

I get why sourceless, largely unverified info is frowned upon as it probably should be - but a lot of the content turned out to be dead accurate.

Agreed 100 percent! PFW used to have a good similar column too. I recall a piece late in maybin's first training camp quoting anonymous sources saying that maybin looked like a bust, and a whole bevy of posters here attacked the piece because it was anonymously sourced. 

[st pete gogolak]

 

54 minutes ago, Kemp said:

My fear is that the Bills were prone to select Allen because of his arm strength and because he has the "look" of the prototypical NFL QB, despite his college stats being mind-numbingly poor, and I'm not just talking about his abysmal completion percentage.

 

This selection is a great example of gut feelings triumphing over analytics. 

 

No one knows how it will turn out, but my money will always go on analytics over gut feelings.

 

I hope so much that gut feeling win this time, because if it doesn't, the Bills just set themselves back another couple of seasons.

I don't think it was a "gut feeling".  I'm pretty sure it was watching his tape.  Isn't there a big difference between the two?

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed 100 percent! PFW used to have a good similar column too. I recall a piece late in maybin's first training camp quoting anonymous sources saying that maybin looked like a bust, and a whole bevy of posters here attacked the piece because it was anonymously sourced. 

 

 

I remember "The Coach" Chuck Dickerson somberly relaying that Maybin was a bust after watching his first practice.   Spot on.  Maybin was 100% fake hustle like a pro wrestler.   At the first sign of resistance he acted like he'd been destroyed to give the illusion of high effort.    People were like "he tries hard but the poor fella's too light, what were the Bills thinking".........and what do you know.....now the NFL is full of 240# pass rushers.   Gotta' hand it to that kid he pulled it off long enough to cash most of those FAT rookie contract checks.      

 

As an aside I found it funny that in the "Four Falls of Buffalo" they blamed the SB XXVI loss on Dickerson's "hog" comments and never mentioned all the other controversy around that team  including Bruce Smith saying that week that Buffalo was a racist city because he got some racist letters,   which was a total firestorm of a controversy that overshadowed the Dickerson comments.........and the players basically partying all week and showing up unprepared.    

[Chuck Wagon]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What is the deal with thinking Buffalo is like !@#$ing Siberia? 

 

They play once a week on a Sunday. Buffalo doesn't get a !@#$ing blizzard every day. 

 

You dont need a big QB with a "cannon arm" because it's Buffalo. That shouldn't be a priority. Just draft a guy that can play QB. I feel like every time I read something from an exec about Buffalo that's always brought up. It's ridiculous. 

 

 

I said it when people were justifying the Allen pick because of weather, if the weather is so bad is severely impacts the type of players we can draft then build a dome.