ESPN Insider: Anonymous Execs weigh in on Bills picks and QBs

[bills_believer]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It would surprise me.  Also if Brady Quinn were to "take a poke at him" as the one exec irresponsibly suggested.

Rosen is not Geno Smith, your team's struggling 2nd round draft pick.  He's the guy your team just traded up in the first to draft.

 

Unless you're dumber than a can of dried latex, they all should be able to do that math.

 

Do you remember JP Losman the Bills first round QB draft pick years ago? From what I remember some of the veterans took offence to the way he carried himself. Troy Vincent who was a union rep gave him a hard hit in practice and broke his arm. JP lost his rookie season to the injury. 

[stuvian]

We play as many as 8 games a year in cold weather. Allen's arm strength is an important factor in this. Rosen and Mayfield made a lot of their completion rates off dink and dunk. Ironically Allen will have to do more dink and dunk to raise his completion rate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, bills_believer said:

 

Do you remember JP Losman the Bills first round QB draft pick years ago? From what I remember some of the veterans took offence to the way he carried himself. Troy Vincent who was a union rep gave him a hard hit in practice and broke his arm. JP lost his rookie season to the injury. 

 

Leg, not arm.

Troy Vincent was dumber than a can of dried latex if he did it deliberately but that wasn't the impression of eyewitnesses at the time:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/t-52695.htmlMichael82

 

"08-24-2004, 06:07 PM

JP Losman faked the handoff to the RB, and then ran a bootleg. He was going downfield towards the sideline and Troy Vincent was right there, in front of him. It looked like Vincent hit him with his shoulders and it wasn't purposely. I will say right now...Vincent was NOT intentionally trying to hurt him, and wasn't trying to hit him hard. It was just the way he hit him. They wore pads and there was a LOT of hard hitting. After the play, JP Losman got up and limped a little bit and then the training staff came over and worked his leg, and ankle. They picked him up and loaded him onto the cart. One more thing...

When Losman was down, Troy Vincent stayed with him for a while and wanted to make sure he was okay, plus was telling him how sorry he was. He stayed with him, until the cart came."

 

This folklore gets perpetuated and no one takes 2 minutes to ask whether it's really what happened.

[Paulus]

2 hours ago, QB12 said:

A promising review @Bills...filled w/accolades all around.

You should read what was said under the "Pittsburgh Stealers" caption...

 

[Carter]

We can all agree this was a HUGE risk.  

 

Hopefully it pays off. 

 

If history is any indication, we’re !@#$ed. 

 

? 

[Paulus]

11 minutes ago, Carter said:

We can all agree this was a HUGE risk.  

 

Hopefully it pays off. 

 

If history is any indication, we’re !@#$ed. 

 

? 

Suprised more people are not yelling, "JP Losman."

[BadLandsMeanie]

51 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

I am not saying Leftwich would stoop so low, I was merely suggesting one of his teammates, not so high on the ladder, might take exception to his obnoxious personality. Growing up in SB I guarantee you this guy would have gotten his ass kicked plenty til he changed his ways.

He would clean your clock in two seconds flat.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

i always love the cold, snow, wind reasoning for picking a QBs. Let's look at those blustery game conditions last year: 

sept 10- 67*

sept 17- 87*

sept 24- 90*

oct 1- Dome

oct 8- 71*

oct 22- 79*

oct 29- 44*

nov 2- 71*

nov 12- 42*

nov 19- 73*

nov 26- 65*

dec 3- 47*

dec10- 29* (snow game!)

dec17- 25*

dec24- 49*

dec 31- 75*

 

playoff: 55*

 

You don't draft a guy based on his ability to play in cold weather, when two of your games are below freezing. 

Beane said they would have drafted Allen even if they played in a dome. So...

[Turk71]

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

He would clean your clock in two seconds flat.

Who? You do not know me very well, Joe Muscato taught me to box, my brother was a NY state wrestling champion and I beat up bullies on a regular basis in SB. Maybe he would clean your clock, I would not be afraid of that punk even at my age.

[Wily Dog]

Supposedly, Arizona had a trade worked out with Denver to move up to five. It all went to hell because of Chubb's availability to Denver. They were going to take Allen. The Colts didn't want to trade because of Nelson being available to them. That left the Buc's and Beane outbid the Cardinal's. The Cardinals were Distraught by the turn of events and had to settle for Rosen. Rumor has it that the Jets scouts wanted their GM to take Allen but he didn't have the stones to. The thing that if it is true that the Bronco's GM .Elway had a tacit agreement with the Cardinals  , did Beane know about it and was Elways price too high for the Bills. or was Elway screwing the Bills.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

Who? You do not know me very well, Joe Muscato taught me to box, my brother was a NY state wrestling champion and I beat up bullies on a regular basis in SB. Maybe he would clean your clock, I would not be afraid of that punk even at my age.

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

[wppete]

I love the Allen and Edmunds picks. Perfect for the Bills. 

[Turk71]

18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

Like I said, you do not know me very well; with my experience I can tell you he is not a tough guy and yes I am confident I could still wipe the floor with his sorry ass.

[bills_believer]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Leg, not arm.

Troy Vincent was dumber than a can of dried latex if he did it deliberately but that wasn't the impression of eyewitnesses at the time:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/t-52695.htmlMichael82

 

"08-24-2004, 06:07 PM

JP Losman faked the handoff to the RB, and then ran a bootleg. He was going downfield towards the sideline and Troy Vincent was right there, in front of him. It looked like Vincent hit him with his shoulders and it wasn't purposely. I will say right now...Vincent was NOT intentionally trying to hurt him, and wasn't trying to hit him hard. It was just the way he hit him. They wore pads and there was a LOT of hard hitting. After the play, JP Losman got up and limped a little bit and then the training staff came over and worked his leg, and ankle. They picked him up and loaded him onto the cart. One more thing...

When Losman was down, Troy Vincent stayed with him for a while and wanted to make sure he was okay, plus was telling him how sorry he was. He stayed with him, until the cart came."

 

This folklore gets perpetuated and no one takes 2 minutes to ask whether it's really what happened.

 

During that drill JP Losman was wearing a red jersey which meant that no one was supposed to touch him. I don't think Vincent intended to hurt him, but in that drill he shouldn't have even touched him. 

 

Of course everyone denied that it was intentional, but at the time there were those who said Losman was acting pretty cocky. 

 

From the Olean Times Herald at the time, "In his very first training camp, the California native came off as a bit cocky and when he was reportedly hot-dogging during a scramble, Losman was tagged by safety Troy Vincent, a popular team leader, and J.P. fell awkwardly, breaking his leg."

 

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/article_b93cd309-410f-5f5c-aa92-e4fa4c0e2470.html?mode=jqm

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Badlands Meanie brought up some interesting points in another thread.  There is something going on here.

 

We have guys who got arrested, who were accused of various kinds of assault and arguably "shielded" by the hometown police and college shirking the investigation, guys who were accused of academic fraud and stealing, all that jive.  And yet I can't ever remember a fraction of the kerfluffle.

 

I'll put it out there, I think this is all a "dogwhistle" for the "F*ck (presidential candidate)" hat and the various strongly expressed views about college athletics.

 

I think NFL owners are scared to death Rosen will build a name for himself in the league and then become Kaepernick 2.0.

 

And they just might have a point, and there really isn't anything he could say to put them at ease on it.

 

 

Yeah, so here's the paradox.  There have been plenty of QB who are arrogant a*holes.  Aaron Rodgers signed up for a couple years of hazing h*ll by walking up to meet Brett Favre for the first time and greeting him with "Hello, Grandpa!" (Seriously, Rodgers?  You called him "Grandpa" the first time you met?) You named 2 more.  Tom Brady isn't called "Tom Terrific" because he's beloved of all in the locker room, and Peyton Manning wasn't called "The Sherriff" because he was such a nice guy.

 

But can anyone recall a similar amount of kerfluffle about a guy's "likeability"?   That's what I thought, I can't either. 

 

It's not the QB job to be likeable, it's his job to play well and make the other team look like "fools with their pants on the ground".  Do that and your locker room charisma instantly elevates.

I always enjoy the read. Kudos for dropping kerfuffle. 

 

That said...I think you're working awful hard on this "dogwhistle" thing. Rosen was selected with the 10th pick of the draft, only 9 guys went ahead of him, 200++ after him, and he was the 4th qb overall.  Forbes is projecting his rookie contract to be worth nearly $18 million.  For all the positive attributes he brings to the table, he is not--as far as I have read or seen--a sure-fire-can't-miss player.  NFL ready, yup, got all that, but he's not Peyton Manning.  It's sensible to consider all aspects of the player when evaluating him as a prospect, and certainly attitude and the consideration of how he might fit in your scheme is 100% fair and certainly not nefarious. We all know teams can miss, but I see this as really quite the opposite of a dog whistle...it's a pronouncement by 9 teams that they wanted someone other than Rosen, for whatever reason revealed or hidden---and as importantly, the 10th team who bet strongly on him, f the prez hat notwithstanding. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Cutler won, and teammates still didnt like him.  So no, I don't think winning always changes everything.  Winning a lot, winning titles...sure, people get past a lot more.  Point is, you need a leader and a field general out there that guys rally for to give yourself the best chance at winning.  

 

And there were 5 highly graded QBs and a 6th in Mason who had a shot at going in the first round.  You weigh them all together and then you make your list on who you feel has the best chance to succeed, and apparently many teams felt the other QB's had a better chance as they went first.

 

People who have an ocean more information on Rosen, who he is, his personality...his pros and cons...all chose to pass on him over other prospects over those concerns.  So you can defend Rosen all you want, but you really don't know anything about Rosen other than highlight film, just like all of us.  And the people who interviewed him felt his personality and durability was enough of a red flag to pass him over for other prospects.  

 

All that matters now is what he does on the field...actually scratch that, F him...all that matters now is what Josh ALLEN does on the field, because he is a Bill and thats all that matters now.  GO BILLS

You are portraying him as a player who is so toxic that teams avoided him like the plague. That belies the fact that he was drafted in the top ten and by a team that moved up to get him. It's apparent that he doesn't have a warm and congenial personality. So what? Whatever criticisms he has attracted none of them relate to how hard he works and how advanced he is as a qb 

 

All four qbs in the top tier had issues. Although all the top qbs in this draft were highly rated every one of them had various flaws that were factored in by the teams selecting qbs. My feeling toward this group is that each of them, different as they may be, will be successful. 

 

The below link highlights the fact that Rosen is a more complicated personality than most college players. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by JohnC

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Badlands Meanie brought up some interesting points in another thread.  There is something going on here.

 

We have guys who got arrested, who were accused of various kinds of assault and arguably "shielded" by the hometown police and college shirking the investigation, guys who were accused of academic fraud and stealing, all that jive.  And yet I can't ever remember a fraction of the kerfluffle.

 

I'll put it out there, I think this is all a "dogwhistle" for the "F*ck (presidential candidate)" hat and the various strongly expressed views about college athletics.

 

I think NFL owners are scared to death Rosen will build a name for himself in the league and then become Kaepernick 2.0.

 

And they just might have a point, and there really isn't anything he could say to put them at ease on it.

 

 

Yeah, so here's the paradox.  There have been plenty of QB who are arrogant a*holes.  Aaron Rodgers signed up for a couple years of hazing h*ll by walking up to meet Brett Favre for the first time and greeting him with "Hello, Grandpa!" (Seriously, Rodgers?  You called him "Grandpa" the first time you met?) You named 2 more.  Tom Brady isn't called "Tom Terrific" because he's beloved of all in the locker room, and Peyton Manning wasn't called "The Sherriff" because he was such a nice guy.

 

But can anyone recall a similar amount of kerfluffle about a guy's "likeability"?   That's what I thought, I can't either. 

 

It's not the QB job to be likeable, it's his job to play well and make the other team look like "fools with their pants on the ground".  Do that and your locker room charisma instantly elevates.

Um ... Brady is more or less beloved or at the least deeply respected by his teammates, and has been forever. I challenge anyone to present *compelling* evidence suggesting otherwise. You will not find it.

[Turk71]

22 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Big talk. He is a 6 foot 4 inch elite athlete in superb physical condition..

 

You think he hasn't had to deal with judgmental jealous punks all his life?

 

2 seconds even if you were his age.

For your information I am not jealous at all. I am perfectly happy with my situation in life, happily married and successful, and I would gladly kick the **** out of that punk if the opportunity presented itself. You have no idea who I am and what I am capable of. I was a guy who fought his way out of a life I was not destined for. I left with nothing and have built a great life with a woman I love for 21 years and could not be happier. To insinuate I would be intimidated by a 6'4" douchebag is laughable, I am 6'3" and 225 lbs myself, I also grew up fighting jackasses and do not fear people in that way. Live with your own fears and don't project them on people you don't know.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are portraying him as a player who is so toxic that teams avoided him like the plague. That belies the fact that he was drafted in the top ten and by a team that moved up to get him. It's apparent that he doesn't have a warm and congenial personality. So what? Whatever criticisms he has attracted none of them relate to how hard he works and how advanced he is as a qb 

 

All four qbs in the top tier had issues. Although all the top qbs in this draft were highly rated every one of them had various flaws that were factored in by the teams selecting qbs. My feeling toward this group is that each of them, different as they may be, will be successful. 

 

I have said all this too...they all had flaws.  We are talking about Rosen specifically here, not saying he was only one with flaws, but talking about why he slid.  No one said he isnt still a good prospect or cant overcome the concerns, including me.  I even said repeatedly I would have been excited to have him, he still is a talented prospects.  But of the 4 he was the one I wanted the least, and the guy I wanted to risk the least on in a trade up.  I would have been fine if the Bills took him at 7 in fact.  

 

I do think that Rosen compares much more to Jay Cutler than Aaron Rogers though.  Just absurd to compare him to Rogers, they are not remotely on the same level or the same type of player.  I think Jay Cutler is his ceiling personally...solid career, but not what I am targeting in the top 10.  

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Anyone can pull it together for one interview, especially when your PR person coaches you.  

 

You know his PR person, said man you have to get people to like you.  The opinion of you must be squashed during this pre-draft process.  They worked on it and worked on it and he still couldn't.