How Did Beane and McDermott “Drain The Swamp” At One Bills Drive So Quickly?

[RevWarRifleman]

On 5/3/2018 at 11:33 AM, May Day 10 said:

thats what happens when a franchise is on moth balls for 20 years and someone comes in, throws the curtains aside and opens a window to the outside world.

 

lack of "continuity", bad luck, Patriots, etc did not cause the drought.  Buffalo Bills "management" did.

Yup. It all flows down from the top.

[Saxum]

On 5/3/2018 at 11:09 AM, BuffaloRush said:

This leaves Jim Overdorff as really the last connection to Ralph Wilson.

 

There is time to put Jim Overdorff out to pasture.

 

And entire marketing department was left in place but that appears to had been under control of Brandon.  Kim could clear that out as well.

On 5/3/2018 at 11:45 AM, HansLanda said:

Interesting that Overdorf is still on board. For all of the flack many give him, he must be super at his job as the cap expert. Beane said they meshed immediately. I guess we can't fault JO for all the bad contracts Whaley drew up. Maybe he's just the pencil pusher to get them hammered out and signed with the agents.

 

No JO did all of the contracts NOT Whaley.  JO including clauses which prevented pulling of signing bonus after drug suspension for big stuff.

On 5/3/2018 at 11:41 AM, CardinalScotts said:

It was unusual under Ralph...wouldnt eat any contract. New coach using not his assistants

 

Pegula doesnt care willing to eat contracts get the right guy--he has him now

 

The problem with that is then head coach does not take as much care as he should on signing of new coaches hence good coaches let go and coaches which lasted one year after being hired by McD.

[Nihilarian]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:30 AM, TroutDog said:

I agree with 26. But, when Pegula’s originally purchased the team, they specifically stated they were going to leave things as they were, admitting that they were ‘green’. Understandable but, not so shockingly, led to the same result on the field. 

 

When McD was hired, I believe they had realized that a complete overhaul was needed and that this included culture. Ridding an organization of people is one way to very clearly let people know that a new sheriff is in town and they have McD the power to do it. 

 

I, for one, am glad they came to the realization. 

 

As am I, as am I. Rex Ryan was the wrong hire from day one and we all should be grateful that Whaley, Brandon brought about their own demise with their stupidity. 

 

My take on the situation is that Russ Brandon convinced the Pegula's to give Whaley some time to get things right. Probably out of respect for Ralph Wilson I think the new owners wanted to see how things went before making any major changes. 

 

I also think they hired a consultant after things didn't go quite as anticipated after that 9-7 season and Marrone stepping away. Let's not forget that Brandon was there prodding the Pegula's to "not let Rex Ryan leave the building". 2015 saw that #5 defense head into the ceramic convenience with the supposed defensive guru the sole reason for this nosedive.  

From 8-8 to 7-9 and suddenly Ryan lost all credibility as did Doug Whaley.

 

 

On another note. While things have changed for the better in so many ways since the McD hire. My biggest concern now is will this defensive-minded head coach fall victim to what killed so many other regimes since Marv levy, Wade Phillips eras. That is not having a superior talent offensive line like the team had for their super bowl years. The team just lost an above average center, left tackle along with their all-pro left guard. Things could go south very quickly for this new regime. 

 

 

[Keukasmallies]

I think McD was successful because Terry Pegula awoke to the fact that if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Keukasmallies

[Saxum]

On 5/5/2018 at 7:18 PM, Nihilarian said:

 

On another note. While things have changed for the better in so many ways since the McD hire. My biggest concern now is will this defensive-minded head coach fall victim to what killed so many other regimes since Marv levy, Wade Phillips eras. That is not having a superior talent offensive line like the team had for their super bowl years. The team just lost an above average center, left tackle along with their all-pro left guard. Things could go south very quickly for this new regime. 

 

Agree that OL needs to get better but was the performance of the OL due to the firing OC (one of a number of coaches let go after one year) or the OL / Running game corrdinator we still are stuck with?

 

Yes a left tackle who only started 16 games in last two years and was ineffective in some of them was traded but that fact was convienently left out.

 

Continue your campaign Nil.

[BobbyC81]

On May 3, 2018 at 8:34 AM, JoeF said:

Agree CB. 

 

My speculation...McD showed the Pegulas a plan to transition leadership in the administration, personnel, player and coaching side.  They liked the plan and gave him the direct pipeline but they wanted to be kept informed.  This would be a normal transition.  Whaley, Berchtold, etc were all as good as gone the day he walked in...but you don't fire the personnel staff in January when they have all the draft information.  

 

McD built his coaching staff and looked at the other parts of the organization including the players.  He found that the loser mentality permeated parts of the organization he didn't anticipate, but he wanted a second set of eyes that he trusted to evaluate players, personnel and administration.  Enter his hand picked GM - Brandon Beane.  Beane worked on his staff first, then reviewed McD's assessment of players...Watson (low effort diva); Darby (not a fit for the hard nosed cover corner); Dareus (keep him but get rid of him if his attitude starts to go south) --then together they started to work the plan.  They were patient and open-minded but once a decision was made they acted quickly with Terry's full support.

 

Brandon's public persona of a slick, fast talking, marketing deal maker just wasn't ever going to fit McDermott's style.  I speculate that the reported rift was over Watkins -- Russ saying -- no way he's all we've got to market and he's all over our electronic and print materials and McDermott saying that's no longer how we make decisions and by the way get out of my face...this is a football team not a promotions event. 

 

Just speculating -- but I think this is probably a bit more than normal new coach turnover but clearly shows McDermott and Beane are in charge.

 

I agree with you and all of this makes it even more puzzling that Danny Crossman retains his job now across multiple owners, GMs and head coaches.  It's not like he's some young, innovative and highly successful special teams coach.  Why didn't McDermott get his own guy like he did for the other positions on his staff?  Does Crossman have some dirt on someone?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

 

On 5/3/2018 at 11:09 AM, BuffaloRush said:

One of the most remarkable things about the hiring of McDermott and Beane (to a lesser extent) is how they have eesentiallu completely turned over the entire organization and the football roster as well.

 

if you recall in 2014, when Terry Pegula bought the team very little changed.  Russ was moved to President as PSE but the overall structure seemed very similar (one exception was Rex reporting to TP and not the GM).  Essentially the same decision makers who “tarnished the brand” for year were still employed and in power to make questionable decision.

 

Cut to 2017, when McDermott was hired he immediately made big changes by firing the following long-time employees

 

PR Scott Berchtold (still a “consultant” but powerless”)

GM Doug Whaley 

Jim Monos (Director of Pro Personnel

Buddy Nix (Still was working as a scout)

Whaley’s Entire Scouting Dept

James Trapp (Chaplan)

Paul Lancaster (Director of Engagement)

Michael Lyons (Director of Analytics)

Entire Analytics Staff

Bud Carpenter (Trainer)

Shone Gibson (Trainer)

 

This leaves Jim Overdorff as really the last connection to Ralph Wilson.

 

So here is my question - how did McDermott do it?  It just seems unprecedented that someone could come in an clean house within the span of year - nonetheless a coach and GM.

 

I remember hearing that Marrone was not happy with some of these people and yet he was not successful at getting any of them fired.  He had problems with Whaley but Terry elected to keep him.  I guess what I’m wondering is why was McDermott and Beane able to drain the swamp, whereas Marrone was not able.  

 

It seemed as though the Pegula’s were pretty happy with their staff and yet within a year everyone was fired.  

 

How do you think this went down behind the scenes?

 

 

 

 

After dealing with Wrecks and Marroon and seeing how organized, professional and the plan McDermott had , Terry gave him all the Power to reshape the organization in his image.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[BillsBytheBay]

On 5/3/2018 at 11:15 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Is this something unusual when a team hires a new coach and GM?  No. 

You would think we know better than anyone.... But no.  For over a decade this is unusual for the bills. 

 

I can't remember the last time we traded away multiple first round players under contract.  Front office moves have been stagnant or slow developing changes.

 

"Is this something unusual when a team hires a new coach and GM?" For this team, YES.

Edited May 8, 2018 by JaxBills

[John from Riverside]

On 5/5/2018 at 4:18 PM, Nihilarian said:

As am I, as am I. Rex Ryan was the wrong hire from day one and we all should be grateful that Whaley, Brandon brought about their own demise with their stupidity. 

 

My take on the situation is that Russ Brandon convinced the Pegula's to give Whaley some time to get things right. Probably out of respect for Ralph Wilson I think the new owners wanted to see how things went before making any major changes. 

 

I also think they hired a consultant after things didn't go quite as anticipated after that 9-7 season and Marrone stepping away. Let's not forget that Brandon was there prodding the Pegula's to "not let Rex Ryan leave the building". 2015 saw that #5 defense head into the ceramic convenience with the supposed defensive guru the sole reason for this nosedive.  

From 8-8 to 7-9 and suddenly Ryan lost all credibility as did Doug Whaley.

 

 

On another note. While things have changed for the better in so many ways since the McD hire. My biggest concern now is will this defensive-minded head coach fall victim to what killed so many other regimes since Marv levy, Wade Phillips eras. That is not having a superior talent offensive line like the team had for their super bowl years. The team just lost an above average center, left tackle along with their all-pro left guard. Things could go south very quickly for this new regime. 

 

 

I think the OL is not as bad as some make it out to be.....starters anyway.

 

Groy stepped in when players went down and the OL did not miss a beat....I think Groy is VERY underrated.  I do hope that next year's draft and free agency is all about addressing the OL however making it a strength of the team.

 

LT doesnt bother me at all...Glenn barely played....Dawkins looks like a find.

 

If the OG from the draft ends up being solid depth then all we really needed to worry about is RT...which we really need to address this next off season.

[Nihilarian]

22 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Agree that OL needs to get better but was the performance of the OL due to the firing OC (one of a number of coaches let go after one year) or the OL / Running game corrdinator we still are stuck with?

 

Yes a left tackle who only started 16 games in last two years and was ineffective in some of them was traded but that fact was convienently left out.

 

Continue your campaign Nil.

2

The guy they fired was the passing game coordinator, Rick Dennison. The O line/run game coordinator is still with the team Juan Castillio. IMO Castillo should have been fired too. 

 

In 2016 Buffalo was #2 in rushing attempts, #1 in rushing yards, #1 in rushing TDs, #1 in rushing yards per carry average. 

in 2017 Buffalo was #4 in rushing attempts, #6 in rushing yards,  #15 in rushing TDs, #14 in rushing yards per carry average. 

 

For most of the early part of last year, McCoy was having a tough time of it during some games. The team was able to gain a good deal of rush yards later in the year. Nevertheless, Mccoy had his YPC average drop a significant 1.4 YPC. from 5.4 to 4.0. 

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think the OL is not as bad as some make it out to be.....starters anyway.

 

Groy stepped in when players went down and the OL did not miss a beat....I think Groy is VERY underrated.  I do hope that next year's draft and free agency is all about addressing the OL however making it a strength of the team.

 

LT doesnt bother me at all...Glenn barely played....Dawkins looks like a find.

 

If the OG from the draft ends up being solid depth then all we really needed to worry about is RT...which we really need to address this next off season.

You guys need to understand the difference between having a top left guard on the line and JAG. Wood, Incognito, and Glenn added some real stability to that line called continuity so when Glenn went out Dawkins stepped in pretty well. He could be that good on his own but I suspect he played better because Incognito was in there next to him. Incognito also elevated Glenn's play too. 

 

We shall soon see if Dawkins is a viable left tackle without that all pro left guard next to him. I think Dawkins will suffer big time without that anchor next to him. Losing an above average center, LG and LT are going to take its toll, trust me. A 5th round draft pick is not going to replace an all-pro. 

 

Look back to 2010 when Buddy Nix stated: "we're not that far away". Then the team went 0-8 with Fitz running for his life most of the time. This line looks that bad to me. JMO
 

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The guy they fired was the passing game coordinator, Rick Dennison. The O line/run game coordinator is still with the team Juan Castillio. IMO Castillo should have been fired too. 

 

In 2016 Buffalo was #2 in rushing attempts, #1 in rushing yards, #1 in rushing TDs, #1 in rushing yards per carry average. 

in 2017 Buffalo was #4 in rushing attempts, #6 in rushing yards,  #15 in rushing TDs, #14 in rushing yards per carry average. 

 

For most of the early part of last year, McCoy was having a tough time of it during some games. The team was able to gain a good deal of rush yards later in the year. Nevertheless, Mccoy had his YPC average drop a significant 1.4 YPC. from 5.4 to 4.0. 

You guys need to understand the difference between having a top left guard on the line and JAG. Wood, Incognito, and Glenn added some real stability to that line called continuity so when Glenn went out Dawkins stepped in pretty well. He could be that good on his own but I suspect he played better because Incognito was in there next to him. Incognito also elevated Glenn's play too. 

 

We shall soon see if Dawkins is a viable left tackle without that all pro left guard next to him. I think Dawkins will suffer big time without that anchor next to him. Losing an above average center, LG and LT are going to take its toll, trust me. A 5th round draft pick is not going to replace an all-pro. 

 

Look back to 2010 when Buddy Nix stated: "we're not that far away". Then the team went 0-8 with Fitz running for his life most of the time. This line looks that bad to me. JMO
 

I Honestly sought thought that cog was slipping last year he didn’t look nearly as good and I thought he might be a cap casualty in the off-season as it turns out he was his own worst enemy

Edited May 9, 2018 by John from Riverside

[Mr. WEO]

Buddy Nix??  come on...

 

And Pegula fired Whaley, just like he said he would before Douggie's (and Rex's) last season.

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

The guy they fired was the passing game coordinator, Rick Dennison. The O line/run game coordinator is still with the team Juan Castillio. IMO Castillo should have been fired too. 

 

I have been saying this SINCE Juan Castillo was hired.  They signed the OL coach before the OC and that had to affect planning.  I  understand they coached together at Eagles but that was not a good enough reason to hire him and of all his hires it is most which shows nepotism.   I would not mind if he was assistant OC but the coaches they let go on OL were very, very good aside from beach chair incident.

 

Coach McDermott dumped a lot of good personnel to get his staff and STILL fired more following year.  He kept one coach Danny Crossman and while Crossman has shown he can produce okay special teams when he player he needs he has not shown ability to elevate team,

[BullBuchanan]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:52 AM, BadLandsMeanie said:

But as he said. it IS unusual for Buffalo.

 

Also it is next to unheard of in the entire NFL for a rookie head coach to come in and do all of that.

Rookie coach comes in, fires the GM (in essence). Can you think of a single example of that ever having happened on any team at any time?

 

If not, why are you in here saying it is normal?

 

 

 

That's not at all what happened, though. I'm 90% certain that the McDermott hire had next to nothing to do with Whaley being canned. WHaley was done as soon as the previous season ended, but he had years of research and prep done on the draft by that point. You can't bring in a new GM who hasn't picked or established any trust with the scouts and expect them to have any sort of success in the draft. The smart move is always firing the GM right after the draft.  

[Peace Frog]

On 5/3/2018 at 8:33 AM, May Day 10 said:

thats what happens when a franchise is on moth balls for 20 years and someone comes in, throws the curtains aside and opens a window to the outside world.

 

lack of "continuity", bad luck, Patriots, etc did not cause the drought.  Buffalo Bills "management" did.

I've always said that the Patriots were the reason the Bills couldn't win the division.  The Bills themselves were the reason they couldn't win a wildcard spot.

[Thurman#1]

At the time it was obvious the Pegulas liked him from the beginning. But within a week or two stories came out saying that watching him work had given them tremendous faith in him. He'd been hired to work with Whaley but within that one or two weeks they trusted him a lot more than they had ever trusted Whaley.

 

They saw that in the interviews that he had good plans. When he came in and started working they saw he had the wherewithal to make those plans work and to get things done in an organization.

[Nihilarian]

21 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I Honestly sought thought that cog was slipping last year he didn’t look nearly as good and I thought he might be a cap casualty in the off-season as it turns out he was his own worst enemy

These men need to work together to make that line a solid unit that works cohesively. I kind of think it was more Cogs helping out that rookie tackle then it was a failure to do his own job.

 

I can see why the guy might want to retire at this point if the team is low balling him on money as he will really be tested without Glenn, Woods next to him. Without those tried and true veterans next to him it would make his job infinitely more difficult. 

 

The Bills face the Chargers in week two and Vikings week three. I just hope these young Bills QBs survive some of these games this year. Scary to me with Castillo still the line coach, run game coordinator.  

[Saxum]

Scares me too!  Imagine Rick Dennison's OL having a better performance than Castillo's!

[Bing Bong]

Not a fan of the "Draining the swamp" phrase. Swamp got started draining when the pegulas took over, just took them a while to get rolling with it. And what swamp did we drain? Whaley\Nix drained the Juaron swamp. There was no swamp we've just been steadily improving from those 6-10 seasons. We have better players and coaches what other swamp are we so worried about lol