Freddie's Dead Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 You forgot my boy and fellow NT alum Randy "Woody" Ribbeck.
SoTier Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Results give you credibility Yes, a great 9-7 record highlighted by ... 2 games (2 losses) where the team failed to score a TD 6 games (3 losses) where the team failed to score more than 1 TD 7 games against playoff teams ... 3 wins, 4 losses ... and finally a playoff appearance that resulted in a 10-3 loss to Jacksonville should punch McDermott and Beane's tickets to the HOF especially since we all know that the offense is so much better today than it was at this time last year since the Bills have at long last found their franchise QB!
oldmanfan Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoTier said: Yes, a great 9-7 record highlighted by ... 2 games (2 losses) where the team failed to score a TD 6 games (3 losses) where the team failed to score more than 1 TD 7 games against playoff teams ... 3 wins, 4 losses ... and finally a playoff appearance that resulted in a 10-3 loss to Jacksonville should punch McDermott and Beane's tickets to the HOF especially since we all know that the offense is so much better today than it was at this time last year since the Bills have at long last found their franchise QB! You can be a smartass just to be a smartass I suppose. Or one can acknowledge that the current HC and GM got the team to the playoffs last year. And that even so they have acknowledged they have a long way to go still to build the team into what they want. 1
Soda Popinski Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You can be a smartass just to be a smartass I suppose. Or one can acknowledge that the current HC and GM got the team to the playoffs last year. And that even so they have acknowledged they have a long way to go still to build the team into what they want. I think what a lot of fans don't see is the culture change within the organization, all they see are the Ws and Ls and even that should be enough. Did anyone think after Watkins and Darby were dumped last year this was a 9-7 team? I had us at 6 wins and I wasn't sure that was realistic. We overachieved last year, but the Pegulas can see the plan that was mapped out by McDermott through his interviews coming to fruition. He has given them tangible results to justify everything he asked for when they brought him in. The same with Beane. He gets rid of two very popular players with the fans and says "next year I'll get us a QB" and he delivers. And I believe firmly none of this was done with any involvement of Brandon at all. I also believe that McBeane had nothing to do with him being let go they neither wanted or cared what RB did it had no effect on their day to day work. Brandon brought this firing on himself.
BADOLBILZ Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 20 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: You have had a GM continuum for quite a long time in Buffalo that ended with Beane being hired as a total outsider to work with McDermott. That's why there has been such a purge and again I find nothing jaw dropping or amazing about it. Standard NFL fare. Yeah the perception that it's special or inherently meaningful is laughable. People desperately grasping for signs of proof of future greatness that aren't there. Major-to-complete turnover is the norm in the absence of success and is not a predictor of future success. 1
mjt328 Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 I wouldn't attribute the "swamp drain" to Sean McDermott specifically. The Pegulas were not experienced in the football business when they first purchased the Bills. They weren't planning to just walk into the building and fire everyone, regardless of what the fans wanted to see happen. The overhaul was something that would clearly take some time. When Doug Marrone quit only a year after the Pegulas bought the team, I think it really caught them off guard. The team looked pretty talented on defense, and had just put together the first winning season in a very long time. Things were starting to look up. Usually head coaches are fired as part of a team totally clearing house. That wasn't the case here. The Pegulas liked the direction the team appeared to be going, so they kept Doug Whaley as General Manager and tried to find a coach that could work with him. When Rex Ryan was fired, the Pegulas were clearly ready to start-over. But in order to keep the scouting work done over the previous 12 months, they decided to wait until after the draft to get rid of Whaley and the scouting staff. Once that move happened, it was only a matter of time before everything underneath was overhauled. This whole Russ Brandon thing was an unexpected situation. I don't believe he makes football decisions and hasn't for awhile. If all of this questionable conduct stuff hadn't come around, I believe he would have continued to be part of the Bills organization for a very long time. 3
Behindenemylines Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 As a new owner it's All about managing variables. If you change everything immediately you have no baseline. Also maybe some people were constrained by the former management but will shine with the new. Who knows but having the Rex debacle, which did buy time and generate interest set them up for real and astute leaders. Well played in my book and thank goodness too! Now let's hope it continues and this draft gets us where we want to go!
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 Thing I love about McDermott is that he made it FUN for these guys. You can clearly tell the Bills players were having a blast on the sidelines, celebrating for the littlest things. Almost like watching kids playing pop warner. Hope Josh Allen pans out and these guys stay here for a LONG, LONG time.
MJS Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 On 5/3/2018 at 9:33 AM, May Day 10 said: thats what happens when a franchise is on moth balls for 20 years and someone comes in, throws the curtains aside and opens a window to the outside world. lack of "continuity", bad luck, Patriots, etc did not cause the drought. Buffalo Bills "management" did. I disagree. Those things absolutely contributed to the drought. Bad management did as well.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, SoTier said: Yes, a great 9-7 record highlighted by ... 2 games (2 losses) where the team failed to score a TD 6 games (3 losses) where the team failed to score more than 1 TD 7 games against playoff teams ... 3 wins, 4 losses ... and finally a playoff appearance that resulted in a 10-3 loss to Jacksonville should punch McDermott and Beane's tickets to the HOF especially since we all know that the offense is so much better today than it was at this time last year since the Bills have at long last found their franchise QB! Spin however you may wish to... 1) winning team 2) playoff Berth Rationalize they should’ve have lost, its as sorry a plight as trying to rationalize all those years of losing into moral victories. Results are results. And that’s all that matters.
Mat68 Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 In reguards to Pegula. Terry was not a big football fan. That seems to be more Kim. Coming into an organization that has been middling what is the issue? What needs be fixed? That is not something that happens over night. When Marrone wanted more power and change imo Brandon painted it a money grab. Pegula even offered more money. Brandon was explaining the business and Marrone was wanting him out. After the search and Rex debackle I think Pegula had a better handle of the issues at hand. The Mcderrmot hire and Beane hire now shows a vision and systematic clense of the organization top to bottom. The recent news about Brandon is a surprise in infraction but possibly the best outcome for the Pegulas. Kim was always going to be the day to day operator of the franchises she just needed to learn that side of it. Not perfect but best situation to make the change.
Steptide Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 Im very late to this thread, but I think the simple answer to the original post is that pegula handed over authority and control to McDermott after the Rex mess. Terry probably took a step back after firing Rex and realized that maybe it's not as easy as he originally thought
SoTier Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You can be a smartass just to be a smartass I suppose. Or one can acknowledge that the current HC and GM got the team to the playoffs last year. And that even so they have acknowledged they have a long way to go still to build the team into what they want. The statement I was commenting was one about "results". The "results" from the Bills first season under McDermott and less than a year under Beane were certainly not that good, and certainly not great, enough to merit more than a "nice job". Neither has demonstrated that he's a coaching or personnel genius. Major personnel changes usually happen when there's a change in ownership/management, not when a team has a modestly successful season. 5 hours ago, Soda Popinski said: I think what a lot of fans don't see is the culture change within the organization, all they see are the Ws and Ls and even that should be enough. Did anyone think after Watkins and Darby were dumped last year this was a 9-7 team? I had us at 6 wins and I wasn't sure that was realistic. We overachieved last year, but the Pegulas can see the plan that was mapped out by McDermott through his interviews coming to fruition. He has given them tangible results to justify everything he asked for when they brought him in. The same with Beane. He gets rid of two very popular players with the fans and says "next year I'll get us a QB" and he delivers. And I believe firmly none of this was done with any involvement of Brandon at all. I also believe that McBeane had nothing to do with him being let go they neither wanted or cared what RB did it had no effect on their day to day work. Brandon brought this firing on himself. Excuse me, but winning football games is, and should be, the first priority of every NFL football team, although I don't think that was necessarily true of the Bills during Ralph Wilson's ownership. Except for McDermott, his coaching staff, and in small part, Beane, all of the Bills non-player personnel responsible for the Bills 9-7 2017 season were hold overs from previous regimes or were hired at some point after the 2017 NFL draft and OTAs began. McDermott introduced "culture change" into the team itself, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about; he was asking about the replacement of long-time employees who had been with organization over several coaching changes. McDermott's means of "culture change" has been getting rid of players who don't apparently fit into his "culture" despite the cost in talent. This isn't anything particularly new for the Bills, either; McDermott's "process" philosophy is simply a resurrection of Dick Jauron's "my way or the highway", and Beane's drafting of a questionable first round QB just to placate the fans echoes Dough Whaley's drafting of EJ Manuel in 2013. The only thing really separating Whaley and Beane is that Beane paid a whole lot more for Allen than Whaley did for Manuel. 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Spin however you may wish to... 1) winning team 2) playoff Berth Rationalize they should’ve have lost, its as sorry a plight as trying to rationalize all those years of losing into moral victories. Results are results. And that’s all that matters. I'm not the one rationalizing "moral victories" and pretending that the 2017 Bills were so awesome that the HC and GM should be given carte blanche in running the team. I pointed out that not only were the Bills not that great, but they haven't done anything to fix their serious flaws on offense, which you are trying to now claim is "rationalizing all those years of losing". Sorry, dude, but you're the one doing the rationalizing over a 9-7 team that lucked into a playoff berth, and then promptly lost in the WC game. You can start crowing about "results" when the Bills beat NE in NE with Brady playing QB and when the Bills manage to win 10 games in the same season or -- be still my heart! -- win a playoff game! Edited May 4, 2018 by SoTier
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, SoTier said: The statement I was commenting was one about "results". The "results" from the Bills first season under McDermott and less than a year under Beane were certainly not that good, and certainly not great, enough to merit more than a "nice job". Neither has demonstrated that he's a coaching or personnel genius. Major personnel changes usually happen when there's a change in ownership/management, not when a team has a modestly successful season. Excuse me, but winning football games is, and should be, the first priority of every NFL football team, although I don't think that was necessarily true of the Bills during Ralph Wilson's ownership. Except for McDermott, his coaching staff, and in small part, Beane, all of the Bills non-player personnel responsible for the Bills 9-7 2017 season were hold overs from previous regimes or were hired at some point after the 2017 NFL draft and OTAs began. McDermott introduced "culture change" into the team itself, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about; he was asking about the replacement of long-time employees who had been with organization over several coaching changes. McDermott's means of "culture change" has been getting rid of players who don't apparently fit into his "culture" despite the cost in talent. This isn't anything particularly new for the Bills, either; McDermott's "process" philosophy is simply a resurrection of Dick Jauron's "my way or the highway", and Beane's drafting of a questionable first round QB just to placate the fans echoes Dough Whaley's drafting of EJ Manuel in 2013. The only thing really separating Whaley and Beane is that Beane paid a whole lot more for Allen than Whaley did for Manuel. I'm not the one rationalizing "moral victories" and pretending that the 2017 Bills were so awesome that the HC and GM should be given carte blanche in running the team. I pointed out that not only were the Bills not that great, but they haven't done anything to fix their serious flaws on offense, which you are trying to now claim is "rationalizing all those years of losing". Sorry, dude, but you're the one doing the rationalizing over a 9-7 team that lucked into a playoff berth, and then promptly lost in the WC game. You can start crowing about "results" when the Bills beat NE in NE with Brady playing QB and when the Bills manage to win 10 games in the same season or -- be still my heart! -- win a playoff game! I’m not rationalizing a thing. Not one. I am merely stating that when you take over a losing team, turn it into a winning team and make the playoff for the first time in two decades as a first year coach, you earn credibility on what additional changes should be made to keep improving. If i hire a manager and put them in charge of a failing business unit, he/she turns it around, that is a result. No matter how many ‘high level business meetings’ ? had lucky outcomes. Results earn credibility. This is a simple fact of life. losers sit around trying to figure out how someone else’s success is really a just failure of perception... winners figure out how to keep grinding and get better... mcdermott is has a winning record as a head coach. It’s an indisputable fact. He is 1/1 fielding a playoff contender, that is a fact. He has earned the right to have the latitude to keep moving forward. That’s an opinion but I suspect it’s shared by the owner based on what I see. 2
K-9 Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 6 hours ago, mjt328 said: I wouldn't attribute the "swamp drain" to Sean McDermott specifically. The Pegulas were not experienced in the football business when they first purchased the Bills. They weren't planning to just walk into the building and fire everyone, regardless of what the fans wanted to see happen. The overhaul was something that would clearly take some time. Good point. They took over a team on its way to a 9-7 record and in contention until the last few weeks. That’s not a situation that screams panic and lets blow the whole thing up. Being in that .500 area the next two years is the purgatory of mediocrity that deludes even the most experienced owners into thinking they’re only a player or two away. It’s understandable why they were patient initially.
BuffaloRush Posted May 4, 2018 Author Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, SoTier said: The statement I was commenting was one about "results". The "results" from the Bills first season under McDermott and less than a year under Beane were certainly not that good, and certainly not great, enough to merit more than a "nice job". Neither has demonstrated that he's a coaching or personnel genius. Major personnel changes usually happen when there's a change in ownership/management, not when a team has a modestly successful season. Excuse me, but winning football games is, and should be, the first priority of every NFL football team, although I don't think that was necessarily true of the Bills during Ralph Wilson's ownership. Except for McDermott, his coaching staff, and in small part, Beane, all of the Bills non-player personnel responsible for the Bills 9-7 2017 season were hold overs from previous regimes or were hired at some point after the 2017 NFL draft and OTAs began. McDermott introduced "culture change" into the team itself, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about; he was asking about the replacement of long-time employees who had been with organization over several coaching changes. McDermott's means of "culture change" has been getting rid of players who don't apparently fit into his "culture" despite the cost in talent. This isn't anything particularly new for the Bills, either; McDermott's "process" philosophy is simply a resurrection of Dick Jauron's "my way or the highway", and Beane's drafting of a questionable first round QB just to placate the fans echoes Dough Whaley's drafting of EJ Manuel in 2013. The only thing really separating Whaley and Beane is that Beane paid a whole lot more for Allen than Whaley did for Manuel. I'm not the one rationalizing "moral victories" and pretending that the 2017 Bills were so awesome that the HC and GM should be given carte blanche in running the team. I pointed out that not only were the Bills not that great, but they haven't done anything to fix their serious flaws on offense, which you are trying to now claim is "rationalizing all those years of losing". Sorry, dude, but you're the one doing the rationalizing over a 9-7 team that lucked into a playoff berth, and then promptly lost in the WC game. You can start crowing about "results" when the Bills beat NE in NE with Brady playing QB and when the Bills manage to win 10 games in the same season or -- be still my heart! -- win a playoff game! Again playing the whole “coulda, shoulda, woulda” game is pathetic. Bottom line...the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 2 decades. Of course they got some lucky breaks, as most teams do during every season. The fact remained that the Bills teams for nearly 20 years were so bad, that couldn’t get in the playoffs. I really get annoyed when people short- change the team. What McDermott did was a limited roster last season was pretty impressive
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 12 hours ago, Shaw66 said: This is a good description of the likely scenario. I do think then OP is correct. This was unusual. If you bring in a Chip Kelly or an Ndy Reid, if he tells the owner the GM hasntongo, fine, I get. But this was a young, rookie head coach. What happened here, I would guess, was anyoung combination of pre-existing dissatisfaction with Whaley and Brandon and a very positive impression made by McD. I can't disagree it was unusual. There were articles that pointed out little things that were observed suggesting Whaley was gone as far back as the Sr Bowl in January, right after McDermott was hired and culminating in a scene after the March Owner's Meeting where the rest of most team's scouting staffs had gone off to Pro Days and other pre-draft activities, and there was Doug Whaley playing with his toddler daughter on the hotel lawn. It seems likely McDermott was hired with the understanding that Whaley and staff would be fired after the draft.
John from Riverside Posted May 4, 2018 Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, SoTier said: The statement I was commenting was one about "results". The "results" from the Bills first season under McDermott and less than a year under Beane were certainly not that good, and certainly not great, enough to merit more than a "nice job". Neither has demonstrated that he's a coaching or personnel genius. Major personnel changes usually happen when there's a change in ownership/management, not when a team has a modestly successful season. Excuse me, but winning football games is, and should be, the first priority of every NFL football team, although I don't think that was necessarily true of the Bills during Ralph Wilson's ownership. Except for McDermott, his coaching staff, and in small part, Beane, all of the Bills non-player personnel responsible for the Bills 9-7 2017 season were hold overs from previous regimes or were hired at some point after the 2017 NFL draft and OTAs began. McDermott introduced "culture change" into the team itself, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about; he was asking about the replacement of long-time employees who had been with organization over several coaching changes. McDermott's means of "culture change" has been getting rid of players who don't apparently fit into his "culture" despite the cost in talent. This isn't anything particularly new for the Bills, either; McDermott's "process" philosophy is simply a resurrection of Dick Jauron's "my way or the highway", and Beane's drafting of a questionable first round QB just to placate the fans echoes Dough Whaley's drafting of EJ Manuel in 2013. The only thing really separating Whaley and Beane is that Beane paid a whole lot more for Allen than Whaley did for Manuel. I'm not the one rationalizing "moral victories" and pretending that the 2017 Bills were so awesome that the HC and GM should be given carte blanche in running the team. I pointed out that not only were the Bills not that great, but they haven't done anything to fix their serious flaws on offense, which you are trying to now claim is "rationalizing all those years of losing". Sorry, dude, but you're the one doing the rationalizing over a 9-7 team that lucked into a playoff berth, and then promptly lost in the WC game. You can start crowing about "results" when the Bills beat NE in NE with Brady playing QB and when the Bills manage to win 10 games in the same season or -- be still my heart! -- win a playoff game! LOL There is no need for "moral victories" the bills had real victories.....on their way to a winning record and a playoff birth (by the way there is no such thing as "luck into a playoff birth"....you either GO OR YOU DONT.....let me know when the patriots start complaining about the lucky wins they get every year. All this while going through a rebiuld on the go....turning the top of the roster upside down for draft picks.....we were and are REBIULDING McDermott is a defensive coach......he is going to fix his defense first which was deplorable under Rex Ryan. The rebiuld and getting rid of the top half of the roster resulted in over 40 million of dead cap this year...they are REBIULDING....but STILL managed to play in a wild card....most teams that rebiuld just plain suck so yes they did a GREAT job. Wake up for christ sake
SoTier Posted May 5, 2018 Posted May 5, 2018 15 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Again playing the whole “coulda, shoulda, woulda” game is pathetic. Bottom line...the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 2 decades. Of course they got some lucky breaks, as most teams do during every season. The fact remained that the Bills teams for nearly 20 years were so bad, that couldn’t get in the playoffs. I really get annoyed when people short- change the team. What McDermott did was a limited roster last season was pretty impressive McDermott's 2017 coaching job hardly merited consideration for "Coach of the Year", and his "limited roster" was/is largely of his own making since he had significant input in determining which players were added, sent packing or kept kept over 2017 and into this season. You can jump on the McDermott bandwagon but even Dick Jauron, easily the Bills worst HC in the last three decades, once coached a team to a playoff berth (13-3), so I'll wait and see if he can replicate or improve on 2017 before I nominate him for the HOF.
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