Soda Popinski Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, theRalph said: What the Bills no doubt recognize - and what many fans, apparently, do not, is the fact that you can't evaluate College QBs with analytics unless you go far deeper into the numbers than these lame-brain draftniks that craft their careers by pushing their nonsense onto unsuspecting pinheads like Mike Schopp. As much as the likes of Schopp like to say that NFL teams don't know how to evaluate talent, the fact is scouts know a lot more about it than do the number crunching analytics-nerds we listened to for months. The Bills avoided Josh Rosen not unlike how you or I avoid touching a red stovetop. Rosen himself demonstrated the reasoning with his post-selection rant. But the Bills, behind closed doors, are snickering at the press on Allen. They know what they have and will unleash it on the league soon enough. Until then, here's an important safety tip: The instant any of these talent-evaluator hacks that are paraded across our airwaves make a connection between 56% and accuracy, immediately turn them off. And if anyone wishes to debate the merit of using 56% as a measure of Josh Allen's accuracy, bring it... I'm guessing you've seen the actual game tape of the Hawaii game
John from Riverside Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'm not really suggesting anything. It is just a fact that he had the same number of college concussion as Mayfield but his were mentioned a lot more. Not sure what was behind that, but that is what happened. I may not agree with everything that Gunner says...but I learned a long time ago to LISTEN to what he says......I believe all of this. Rosen - the most accurate QB in this draft Played on a good team Injury concerns Committment to football concerns I honestly dont care about his opinions off the field because he is allowed to them......and I actually wanted him through the draft process.....but there is just something about his little speech of making 9 teams regret not drafting him where he came across as a smug SOB. I started getting turned off the more time went by. I have NO idea how Allen is gonna work out.....but im all aboard that train now Edited May 3, 2018 by John from Riverside
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 I absolutely see Mayfield and Rosen not being on McDermott and Beanes board
buffalostu2 Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Billsflyer12 said: With Beane and McD, one now must ask if potential draftee or signee fits into their “faith, family, football,” and unfortunately it may be in that order. In a pre draft interview McD said they were doing character and fit evals before play evaluation. That seems crazy out of order.
LabattBlue Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I absolutely see Mayfield and Rosen not being on McDermott and Beanes board Not being in the top 1/2 of the first round I can buy. If they are off the Bills board completely...that is idiotic. So you would be okay with passing on these 2 in the 3rd or 4th rounds?
GunnerBill Posted May 3, 2018 Author Posted May 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I tend to disagree. The Patriots have won over the years without amazing receivers and such. They run a very specific passing game with complicated route trees and things of that nature. They have the GOAT basically, who excels at making good decisions in that scheme. Yeah sometimes they isolate Gronk and take a shot, but that isn't their offense. I think that is what wins football games consistently, finding holes in the defense. I don't want my entire offense built on matchups, because when your stud receiver is hurt, you are left with no offense. I think you look for mismatches and matchups pre snap and take advantage accordingly. I feel a lot better with an E-P passing attack that utilizes play action and such over an RPO offense in which the quarterback looks at one guy and makes a simple decision based on that one read. That works in the short term...RG3, Kaepernick, Watson. Tyrod...Mayfield. But defenses catch up. The game is designed to go vertical. Defenses use the sideline to scheme all of the time. You simply run out of room going sideways. The Patriots haven't been about great receivers but they have been about mismatches. Your linebacker might be fast in a straight line but can he spin his hips fast enough when James White goes horizontal and then cuts it upfield after taking a 5 yard swing pass? Is his first step fast enough to stop Wes Welker getting position from the snap and beating him to that soft zone? Those are still mismatches. RPO is a slightly different beast and I don't actually associate it with horizontal offense exclusively. Nobody went down the field as much as the Texans during Deshaun's starts. Yes you can run RPO as a component of a college style spread and be all about ball out quick hitters but you don't have to. I am not advocating for the RPO as a staple of an offense either. It was the staple of the Eagles offense with Nick Foles but it was just one part of their scheme when Wentz was starting. I just don't see the NFL as a run and go deep league anymore. I suppose if you want a nice catchy way of encapsulating my thoughts it would be that this is now a Pat Schurmer league not a Norv Turner league.
MrEpsYtown Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: I just don't see the NFL as a run and go deep league anymore. I suppose if you want a nice catchy way of encapsulating my thoughts it would be that this is now a Pat Schurmer league not a Norv Turner league. Gotcha. I think it is a little bit of both. I think when you draft a guy who can throw it 80 yards, you should certainly include elements of the Norv turner stuff. I also think Allen will be able to drive the ball into those small windows. I think Daboll seems like the type of guy who will implement a lot of different stuff, so I am happy about that.
blacklabel Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, LabattBlue said: If Mayfield was removed from their draft board for "off-field/character" concerns, I'd like to see the complete list, because it must be pretty long. Ya, this is a fair point. Mayfield has done a few things that may come off as cocky or immature but nothing that anyone should consider "detrimental to a team." I don't mind Mayfield's attitude, kid has confidence and swagger, those are necessary traits if you wanna succeed at the toughest position in sports. Always felt like way too much was made out of Mayfield's off-field stuff and Rosen's personality. Not only does it suck to wait so long for the draft but with the time between the Combine and the actual Draft, so many things get nitpicked and blown out of proportion. We've heard GMs and teams say it before that they have to be careful with how much analysis they do on players because it's easy to keep circling back to some minor thing and let that thing go from a molehill to a mountain and give teams false reasons not to draft a guy. I assume setting their board and compiling their scouting reports is like painting. At some point you gotta put down the brushes and walk away from the canvas and call it done.
BillsFan17 Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Except broken bones are not concussions. And Rosen had two concussions last season. Getting three in one year and you are playing with fire. The point is, injuries are a knock on three of the big four QBs. Moreover, broken clavicle is not to be taken litely, look at Romo as an example. And again, as far as concussions, to use that as a knock, he could go an entire career without getting another. Or the likelihood of him getting more throughout his career that we dont even know about, ala Brady style is possible as well. I mean, we act like teams don't have their doctors evaluate these kids. We watch players every year fall in the draft due to medicals. If teams were that worried, he wouldn't have went in the top ten.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, LabattBlue said: Not being in the top 1/2 of the first round I can buy. If they are off the Bills board completely...that is idiotic. So you would be okay with passing on these 2 in the 3rd or 4th rounds? I didn’t say I wanted this. But I completely see this. leading up to the draft I suggested that there are personality components and off the field aspects that seem very important to ‘McBeane’ and could completely see them outright DQ’ing players that don’t fit their culture, irrespective of football talent. I even suggested their board was Darnold, Allen, Mason.. and that’s it.
hemma Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) Buffalo at its own 35 ..... 11 seconds left in the game .... Allen takes the snap and ducks under an untouched Bosa .... takes 4 steps to his left and launches a pass to the endzone ... Zay Jones .... yes.. yes... Zay Jones rips out of not one, but two defenders hands and falls down with the ball fully under control. Bills win! Bills win! Edited May 3, 2018 by hemma
John from Riverside Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 33 minutes ago, blacklabel said: Ya, this is a fair point. Mayfield has done a few things that may come off as cocky or immature but nothing that anyone should consider "detrimental to a team." I don't mind Mayfield's attitude, kid has confidence and swagger, those are necessary traits if you wanna succeed at the toughest position in sports. Always felt like way too much was made out of Mayfield's off-field stuff and Rosen's personality. Not only does it suck to wait so long for the draft but with the time between the Combine and the actual Draft, so many things get nitpicked and blown out of proportion. We've heard GMs and teams say it before that they have to be careful with how much analysis they do on players because it's easy to keep circling back to some minor thing and let that thing go from a molehill to a mountain and give teams false reasons not to draft a guy. I assume setting their board and compiling their scouting reports is like painting. At some point you gotta put down the brushes and walk away from the canvas and call it done. He grabbed his junk on national TV......you dont think a GM is gonna give a long hard thought to that being the face of the franchise? There is also TMZ footage of him being arrested.
LabattBlue Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: He grabbed his junk on national TV......you dont think a GM is gonna give a long hard thought to that being the face of the franchise? There is also TMZ footage of him being arrested. So you would take him off your board completely because of that? That is what is being stated in the OP.
John from Riverside Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, LabattBlue said: So you would take him off your board completely because of that? That is what is being stated in the OP. I believe that Gunner believes his contacts.....and I think there is credibility to that. It could also be more then that.......the fact that he is 6' tall and had concussions might also be playing into it. I think it is probably a overall evaluation of the players that might have taken them off the board....but off the field concerns probably had a big role in it
muppy Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: GM debunked this and said absolutely Josh Rosen was considered Have they. There was a source reporting the Allen pick since Late Feb. maybe now that Brandon is Gone all the leaks have been eliminated. which QB wasn't rumored to be at top of Bills draft board...it was a smorgasbord pick your sourced rumor of whom the Bills would take Ridiculous amount of smoke this past pre draft.....SMH
LabattBlue Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: I believe that Gunner believes his contacts.....and I think there is credibility to that. It could also be more then that.......the fact that he is 6' tall and had concussions might also be playing into it. I think it is probably a overall evaluation of the players that might have taken them off the board....but off the field concerns probably had a big role in it My point is...would you not use a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick on Mayfield or Rosen..or remove them from your board completely, as was reported.
Boatdrinks Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, ddaryl said: Baker Mayfield being off the board screams what I already have figured out. We are going to be Carolina Panthers north. Baker can't run a similiar offense that Cam is running. I believe the bills didn't rate him low they just couldn't design an offense for Mayfield because they do not know how or feel condfident they could, so off the baord he went This makes me a little nerovous because it kinda saying to me, that our coaches don't have that much ability to design a offense around different styes of QB's. I would like to feel confident that our OC and McD could go any direction whenver they need to but ob vioulsy this is not the case In the ase of Rosen I can see the concern that he is not a process guy However if it ever becomes a "faith" reasoning why we don't pick someone up I will be repulsed. Faith should never come up, that is a personal journey one that does not have to be shared with anyone or expected from anyone Yet through the entire combine/ draft process Beane has said the offense would be different based on the player they drafted and that unique skill set. Sounds like exactly what you would want them to do. Are they going to have a preferred player profile of their " ideal QB" ? Of course , and that's as it should be. Why should this indicate that they don't know / have the ability to work with something else? It doesn't , an dthe goal if most every team is to have one QB that leads their team for years. Not to have a bunch of QBs and design various offenses around them.
HappyDays Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 There was an insider on this board, can't remember who but other people here vouched for him, who said that the Bills were trying like hell to get 1 of 2 QBs they really liked in this draft. He said that they knew the other guys had issues they wanted to avoid. So that makes sense with the info you heard. They've been trying to trade up for Darnold or Allen all along.
BearNorth Posted May 3, 2018 Posted May 3, 2018 I like the Allen Pick. Watching the Bills Raiders in a 42 degree downpour, Cali QB Carr struggled, Tyrod & Shady won the game on the ground and with control passing game with a big assist from Milano on D. Allen is big, big hands, and has played in nasty conditions. Granted Jack Kemp was a cali boy who helped the bills win their only two titles.
Recommended Posts