Rumour: Rosen and Mayfield were off the Bills' Board

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I just don't love the horizontal passing game in the NFL. Guys on defense are just too damn fast. All those quick screens and RPOs just will not work when defensive coordinators get caught up. I still think you need to win the traditional way, run the ball, stop the run, stretch the field vertically, create turnovers, sack the quarterback. 

 

Stretching the defense vertically is a way to beat the speed on defense, if my guy can throw it far. Stretching the defense horizontally is very limited because the sideline acts as a barrier, defenses are too fast. Just my opinion, but I'm a traditionalist in that way. I think the entire game is built on the idea of getting to the end zone gaining yards in a north-south way. Otherwise, they would have built the field differently.

I can't disagree with your opinion knowing the traditional way has won the majority of the time.  But the problem i feel with traditional football is pigeon holing your players into a box. I hope at least Mcd is flexible when it comes to this but if anything we learned last season its either his box or the door.

[YoloinOhio]

It was reported that the Bills were doubling back on Rosen the night before the draft making sure they were clear on his personality and had his contact info for draft night 

[Wayne Arnold]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Exactly,  just when we're about to say good riddens to Brady, along comes Darnold to the Jets....unbelievable!

 

Fortunately, I don't see that "rip my own mother's heart out of her chest and eat it for a win" mentality in Darnold that exists in Brady. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I just don't love the horizontal passing game in the NFL. Guys on defense are just too damn fast. All those quick screens and RPOs just will not work when defensive coordinators get caught up. I still think you need to win the traditional way, run the ball, stop the run, stretch the field vertically, create turnovers, sack the quarterback. 

 

Stretching the defense vertically is a way to beat the speed on defense, if my guy can throw it far. Stretching the defense horizontally is very limited because the sideline acts as a barrier, defenses are too fast. Just my opinion, but I'm a traditionalist in that way. I think the entire game is built on the idea of getting to the end zone gaining yards in a north-south way. Otherwise, they would have built the field differently.

 

Hmmm. I'm not sold. I think the NFL is now all about match ups and those matchup advantages for an offense are often in those short and intermediate zones and by getting the ball into the hands of playmakers horizontally. Your backs, slot receivers and tight ends against linebackers. Of course you need a vertical threat but I don't think you can win in the modern NFL with the vertical game as the key base of your offense. Part of that is undoubtedly protection issues due to the overall poor standard of offensive line play. It's about getting the ball out of the Quarterback's hands quickly and into the hands of playmakers in space wherever that space may be.  

[Dr. Who]

14 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I just don't love the horizontal passing game in the NFL. Guys on defense are just too damn fast. All those quick screens and RPOs just will not work when defensive coordinators get caught up. I still think you need to win the traditional way, run the ball, stop the run, stretch the field vertically, create turnovers, sack the quarterback. 

 

Stretching the defense vertically is a way to beat the speed on defense, if my guy can throw it far. Stretching the defense horizontally is very limited because the sideline acts as a barrier, defenses are too fast. Just my opinion, but I'm a traditionalist in that way. I think the entire game is built on the idea of getting to the end zone gaining yards in a north-south way. Otherwise, they would have built the field differently.

The traditional way also should open up space for the running game.  

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. I'm not sold. I think the NFL is now all about match ups and those matchup advantages for an offense are often in those short and intermediate zones and by getting the ball into the hands of playmakers horizontally. Your backs, slot receivers and tight ends against linebackers. Of course you need a vertical threat but I don't think you can win in the modern NFL with the vertical game as the key base of your offense. Part of that is undoubtedly protection issues due to the overall poor standard of offensive line play. It's about getting the ball out of the Quarterback's hands quickly and into the hands of playmakers in space wherever that space may be.  

Well, I don't disagree really, but I don't think the vertical passing game is a completely obsolete dinosaur.  Ideally, one has a mix of both.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Fair enough. I just don't have a problem with this at all. Strong defense, big armed quarterback who can make big plays in the passing game. They were in the Super bowl a couple of years ago, and since they drafted Cam, they have been a very competitive team every year. They have a quarterback who can do things no one else can (until now maybe). Lots of team speed, they create turnovers. I love it. 

 

 

I mean if it works more power to us.. However it does happen to have me questioning the dynamics of our coaching staff. You have to be able to adjust regulalry to the game.. SO these ocnstant parallels to Carolina just make we wonder can they do something besides be Carolina North

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

You dont know that for sure, moreover, Allen had broken the same collar bone twice. Also had a shoulder injury that forced him to miss time this very season.

 

Mayfield habs concussion among other injuries dating back to Texas Tech.

 

None of these kids were uber clean specs. They all came with some sort of flag.

 

However, to act like we know the medicals is far fetched. Especially when we have people like Tom Brady who apparently has hidden his concussion problems.

Except broken bones are not concussions. And Rosen had two concussions last season. Getting three in one year and you are playing with fire.

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I can't disagree with your opinion knowing the traditional way has won the majority of the time.  But the problem i feel with traditional football is pigeon holing your players into a box. I hope at least Mcd is flexible when it comes to this but if anything we learned last season its either his box or the door.

 

I think there can be flexibility within a scheme. For example, there are probably going to be some plays that only Allen can make. If God forbid Peterman starts a game, the game plan that week would probably focus more on short and intermediate routes. Anyway, I just think teh RPO stuff is way too simple for the NFL. It is used in high school and colleges to take advantage of speed on the outside and stretch the defense horizontally. That just doesn't work when linebackers run 4.4...JMO. 

 

I think there will be a little RPO stuff in our offense to take advantage of teams with OLBs like Lorenzo Alexander....

Edited May 3, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Except broken bones are not concussions. And Rosen had two concussions last season. Getting three in one year and you are playing with fire.

Didn't Mayfield also have 2 in like a 3 game stretch?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The traditional way also should open up space for the running game.  

Well, I don't disagree really, but I don't think the vertical passing game is a completely obsolete dinosaur.  Ideally, one has a mix of both.

 

Of course you need a mix.... but I don't think teams win anymore by simply running the ball and taking their shots.  

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

allen's biggest chance at success will be loading the team with talent.  big defense big run game and the kid will have a much easier time developing. 

Amen!!!

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Didn't Mayfield also have 2 in like a 3 game stretch?

 

Yep. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Didn't Mayfield also have 2 in like a 3 game stretch?

I only knew about Rosen. But, again, concussions are cumulative. And the brain never really heals from them. Getting a several in a short span is never good.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

I only knew about Rosen. But, again, concussions are cumulative. And the brain never really heals from them. Getting a several in a short span is never good.

 

That is because the media only seemed interested in reporting the Rosen concussions - it became part of the narrative around him very early in the way it never did with Mayfield.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

That is because the media only seemed interested in reporting the Rosen concussions - it became part of the narrative around him very early in the way it never did with Mayfield.  

So what are you suggesting exactly? That people were trying to sink Rosen?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

So what are you suggesting exactly? That people were trying to sink Rosen?

 

I'm not really suggesting anything. It is just a fact that he had the same number of college concussion as Mayfield but his were mentioned a lot more. Not sure what was behind that, but that is what happened.  

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

So the quarterback our team considered to be the best in the draft now plays in our division for the next 20 years. 

 

Turns the ball over too much.....does this sound familiar to another highly drafted USC QB drafted by the jets?

[MrEpsYtown]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. I'm not sold. I think the NFL is now all about match ups and those matchup advantages for an offense are often in those short and intermediate zones and by getting the ball into the hands of playmakers horizontally. Your backs, slot receivers and tight ends against linebackers. Of course you need a vertical threat but I don't think you can win in the modern NFL with the vertical game as the key base of your offense. Part of that is undoubtedly protection issues due to the overall poor standard of offensive line play. It's about getting the ball out of the Quarterback's hands quickly and into the hands of playmakers in space wherever that space may be.  

 

I tend to disagree. The Patriots have won over the years without amazing receivers and such. They run a very specific passing game with complicated route trees and things of that nature. They have the GOAT basically, who excels at making good decisions in that scheme. Yeah sometimes they isolate Gronk and take a shot, but that isn't their offense. I think that is what wins football games consistently, finding holes in the defense. I don't want my entire offense built on matchups, because when your stud receiver is hurt, you are left with no offense.  I think you look for mismatches and matchups pre snap and take advantage accordingly. I feel a lot better with an E-P passing attack that utilizes play action and such over an RPO offense in which the quarterback looks at one guy and makes a simple decision based on that one read. That works in the short term...RG3, Kaepernick, Watson. Tyrod...Mayfield. But defenses catch up. The game is designed to go vertical. Defenses use the sideline to scheme all of the time. You simply run out of room going sideways. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[Soda Popinski]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is because the media only seemed interested in reporting the Rosen concussions - it became part of the narrative around him very early in the way it never did with Mayfield.  

Mayfield had a whole different narrative the media was loving to report.  

[theRalph]

What the Bills no doubt recognize - and what many fans, apparently, do not, is the fact that you can't evaluate College QBs with analytics unless you go far deeper into the numbers than these lame-brain draftniks that craft their careers by pushing their nonsense onto unsuspecting pinheads like Mike Schopp. As much as the likes of Schopp like to say that NFL teams don't know how to evaluate talent, the fact is scouts know a lot more about it than do the number crunching analytics-nerds we listened to for months. 

 

The Bills avoided Josh Rosen not unlike how you or I avoid touching a red stovetop. Rosen himself demonstrated the reasoning with his post-selection rant. 

But the Bills, behind closed doors, are snickering at the press on Allen. They know what they have and will unleash it on the league soon enough. 

 

Until then, here's an important safety tip: The instant any of these talent-evaluator hacks that are paraded across our airwaves make a connection between 56% and accuracy, immediately turn them off. And if anyone wishes to debate the merit of using 56% as a measure of Josh Allen's accuracy, bring it...