Apologies to Doug Marrone as we learn more about the environment

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Their D carried them.  Just like they did here.  He is an “offensive” coach who has sucky offenses and good to great Ds.

Offense was top 10. Say what?

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Gug dig deeper

McDermott needed to "evaluate his roster"

Then he did

Then he traded him for a 3rd round pick......and escaped the money that Tyrod was going to get paid

he did alright here

Bortles is just bad at football....and is still on that team.

 

I know, John.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Gug dig deeper

McDermott needed to "evaluate his roster"

Then he did

Then he traded him for a 3rd round pick......and escaped the money that Tyrod was going to get paid

he did alright here

Bortles is just bad at football....and is still on that team.

Bortles is 10x the QB of TT.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Bortles is 10x the QB of TT.

He really isnt.....

 

But that is not the point here.....the talk is about how McD handled the TT situation.

 

he evaluated him for a year

he traded him before the team had to make the big payment

he traded him for a asset

he went into this draft and got what he wanted at QB

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

 

John.  Please.

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

 

John.  Please.

 

jmc. Please.

Edited May 3, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

 

jmc. Please.

You have Bortles ranked ABOVE TT.

 

Thanks for the assist!

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

You have Bortles ranked ABOVE TT.

 

Thanks for the assist!

.8 better on a 0-100 scale ain't 10x

 

You know I try to be as fair as possible.

[FappyTheClown]

I want to eat bologna sandwiches with him. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

.8 better on a 0-100 scale ain't 10x

 

You know I try to be as fair as possible.

Hyperbole makes me happy.

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'll maintain this forever:  Had we kept Marrone and Whaley, this team would have been a perennial playoff team.  We were a QB away.  

 

While I think there is some truth to this, its also not that simple either because there was NO obtainable QB that would have solved that problem.

 

Marrone:  D was pretty good, O was beyond pathetic.  No QB was a major part of that.

Rex:  Destroys the D and makes it terrible, brings in Tyrod and the offense becomes good enough to make the playoffs but we don't because of how bad the D is both years.

 

The QB that came in to turn the offense around was Tyrod, but the only reason he was a Bill was because of Rex.  Had Marrone stayed, then in 2015 there is no Tyrod and EJ would have been the starter day 1 and we still would NOT be very good on offense as he proved in his chances that he just isnt a good starter.  

 

That means we turn to 2016 to acquire a new QB.  Clearly, we are not going to be in position to draft Wentz or Goff...look at the draft, there is ONLY one other QB that has done anything in the NFL from that class, Dak Prescott.  But he wasn't a highly regarded prospect coming out...there were several graded higher.  

 

So we almost certainly take Paxton Lynch at #19 instead of Shaq Lawson.  Where would that have gotten us?  He sucks too.  He would have had 2016 and 2017 to try and prove to be the guy and we would have been STILL drafting a QB in 2018.

 

So while I see your point, and its a fair point, its actually not accurate.  There were no QB's to solve that issue we would have been in position to get based on what really would have unfolded and almost a total certainty we STILL would have been drafting a QB in 2018 and also we would NOT have broken our playoff drought with EJ and Paxton Lynch the last couple of years likely the starting QB's of the Buffalo Bills.  

 

Its possible we could have tried to trade for someone like Jimmy G instead of the 49ers, but I think the probability the Pats would have traded Jimmy inside the division is near Zero.  

Edited May 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Whaley is Lil Doug.

Uh oh.  My late wife used to have conniptions when I would walk past the television showing a losing Bills' effort, and say "Where's Little Dougie?!  He'll save us!"

 

From a lot of the comments I've read about him over the past few months, guess I might have to switch to 'Little Napoleon'.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

While I think there is some truth to this, its also not that simple either because there was NO obtainable QB that would have solved that problem.

 

Marrone:  D was pretty good, O was beyond pathetic.  No QB was a major part of that.

Rex:  Destroys the D and makes it terrible, brings in Tyrod and the offense becomes good enough to make the playoffs but we don't because of how bad the D is both years.

 

The QB that came in to turn the offense around was Tyrod, but the only reason he was a Bill was because of Rex.  Had Marrone stayed, then in 2015 there is no Tyrod and EJ would have been the starter day 1 and we still would NOT be very good on offense as he proved in his chances that he just isnt a good starter.  

 

That means we turn to 2016 to acquire a new QB.  Clearly, we are not going to be in position to draft Wentz or Goff...look at the draft, there is ONLY one other QB that has done anything in the NFL from that class, Dak Prescott.  But he wasn't a highly regarded prospect coming out...there were several graded higher.  

 

So we almost certainly take Paxton Lynch at #19 instead of Shaq Lawson.  Where would that have gotten us?  He sucks too.  He would have had 2016 and 2017 to try and prove to be the guy and we would have been STILL drafting a QB in 2018.

 

So while I see your point, and its a fair point, its actually not accurate.  There were no QB's to solve that issue we would have been in position to get based on what really would have unfolded and almost a total certainty we STILL would have been drafting a QB in 2018 and also we would NOT have broken our playoff drought with EJ and Paxton Lynch the last couple of years likely the starting QB's of the Buffalo Bills.  

 

Its possible we could have tried to trade for someone like Jimmy G instead of the 49ers, but I think the probability the Pats would have traded Jimmy inside the division is near Zero.  

I think you underestimate what 16 games of EJ could have accomplished in 2015.

 

Besides, didn't BOTH the teams that drafted Goff/Wentz trade up?

Edited May 3, 2018 by jmc12290

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

I think you underestimate what 16 games of EJ could have accomplished in 2015.

 

Besides, didn't BOTH the teams that drafted Goff/Wentz trade up?

 

Yes they traded up, but we would have to outbid them.  And both Rams and Eagles picked ahead of us, so their draft picks were already better than ours, including one being the 8th overall pick.  So lets be realistic, we were not likely outbidding them given the immense bounty that was already paid and the fact both the teams who traded up with Tenn and Cleveland drafted ahead of us as we were at 19.  

 

And we can debate what EJ might have done as a full time starter in 2015, but its impossible to really predict.  Heck, I was a guy who had seen upside in EJ too.  But, the issue is that all we have to go on is what EJ did in his few chances after that, and it wasn't much.  So to assume he would have led the offense from atrocious under Orton to solid or better is a bit of a stretch if we look at his starts he did get from 2015 and on.  

 

So for me...I think EJ plays 2015 and proves he wasn't the answer and we would be drafting a QB again in 2016.  No way we ever get to 1 and 2 to get Goff or Wentz because we didnt have enough ammo to outbid what the Rams and Eagles paid, which leaves us to take the only other first round graded QB in Paxton Lynch.  Then between 2016 and 2017, we suffer under Lynch who has not been good before he proves he isnt the guy and we would still be drafting a QB in 2018.  

 

We also would not have Beane and all the draft capital in 2018 from the trades he made, so luckily Lynch would have been so bad we probably when have had a much higher draft pick to still take a guy they like in 2018.  

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes they traded up, but we would have to outbid them.  And both Rams and Eagles picked ahead of us, so their draft picks were already better than ours, including one being the 8th overall pick.  So lets be realistic, we were not likely outbidding them given the immense bounty that was already paid and the fact both the teams who traded up with Tenn and Cleveland drafted ahead of us as we were at 19.  

 

And we can debate what EJ might have done as a full time starter in 2015, but its impossible to really predict.  Heck, I was a guy who had seen upside in EJ too.  But, the issue is that all we have to go on is what EJ did in his few chances after that, and it wasn't much.  So to assume he would have led the offense from atrocious under Orton to solid or better is a bit of a stretch if we look at his starts he did get from 2015 and on.  

 

So for me...I think EJ plays 2015 and proves he wasn't the answer and we would be drafting a QB again in 2016.  No way we ever get to 1 and 2 to get Goff or Wentz because we didnt have enough ammo to outbid what the Rams and Eagles paid, which leaves us to take the only other first round graded QB in Paxton Lynch.  Then between 2016 and 2017, we suffer under Lynch who has not been good before he proves he isnt the guy and we would still be drafting a QB in 2018.  

 

We also would not have Beane and all the draft capital in 2018 from the trades he made, so luckily Lynch would have been so bad we probably when have had a much higher draft pick to still take a guy they like in 2018.  

My point was the defense sucked in 2015, and Tyrod played really well.  EJ wouldn't have played that well.  We could have easily ended up 4-12 or worse and picked high enough to grab Goff/Wentz. Hence you "underestimating (how bad) 16 games of EJ (could have been)."

Edited May 3, 2018 by jmc12290

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

 

John.  Please.

Dude.....whatever?

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

My point was the defense sucked in 2015, and Tyrod played really well.  EJ wouldn't have played that well.  We could have easily ended up 4-12 or worse and picked high enough to grab Goff/Wentz. Hence you "underestimating (how bad) 16 games of EJ (could have been)."

 

Oh, sorry I thought you meant EJ might have played better...hahaha my bad.  

 

You make a fair point, however, Rex destroyed the D...Rex would not have been the HC in 2015 and so I don't expect our D to go from #4 to terrible that year with mostly the same roster.  We also still would have had Schwartz as our DC.  

 

So for me, I am giving the assumption that we still win between 7-9 games in 2015 with EJ given we won 9 with EJ and Orton thanks to the D being strong.  I believe firmly we are at the very min still a top 10 D if not top 5 again under Marrone and Schwartz in 2015.  

 

However, if the D still falls apart in 2015 then yes, thats a fair point.  But I think we can all agree the D took a dump because of the terrible system Rex brought in.  So to assume its still bad is probably not as accurate as assuming it would be still strong under Marrone and Schwartz. 

 

In the end, I think we still pick in the low to high teens and Rams and Eagles both still have more firepower than us.  So I still cant see a scenario where we draft Goff or Wentz that is realistic IMO.  

[fansince88]

Doug who?

[BringBackOrton]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Oh, sorry I thought you meant EJ might have played better...hahaha my bad.  

 

You make a fair point, however, Rex destroyed the D...Rex would not have been the HC in 2015 and so I don't expect our D to go from #4 to terrible that year with mostly the same roster.  We also still would have had Schwartz as our DC.  

 

So for me, I am giving the assumption that we still win between 7-9 games in 2015 with EJ given we won 9 with EJ and Orton thanks to the D being strong.  I believe firmly we are at the very min still a top 10 D if not top 5 again under Marrone and Schwartz in 2015.  

 

However, if the D still falls apart in 2015 then yes, thats a fair point.  But I think we can all agree the D took a dump because of the terrible system Rex brought in.  So to assume its still bad is probably not as accurate as assuming it would be still strong under Marrone and Schwartz. 

 

In the end, I think we still pick in the low to high teens and Rams and Eagles both still have more firepower than us.  So I still cant see a scenario where we draft Goff or Wentz that is realistic IMO.  

Forgot the defense component.  Very fair, we probably would have been solid.

 

EEeeeeeeeeeJJJJJJJjjjjjjjjjjjj still might have worked his magic though,

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Forgot the defense component.  Very fair, we probably would have been solid.

 

EEeeeeeeeeeJJJJJJJjjjjjjjjjjjj still might have worked his magic though,

 

Also still a very fair point.  However, my opinion of Orton is soooo bad that I don't know I can imagine EJ being worse hahaha...but yes, quite possible EJ would have given Orton a run for his money on the suck meter haha.