How Does The Reaction to Josh Allen Compare To JP Losman and EJ Manuel?

[BuffaloRush]

To any old time fans, is the whole Josh Allen debacle similar or different to the most recent attempts at drafting a Bills QB in JP Losman and EJ Manuel.

 

I was around for the JP Losman pick but obviously did not have Twitter and wasn’t on the Bills message board yet.  So to any old time fans what was the reactions to Bills drafting JP Losman?  Was it as polarizing as the Josh Allen pick and were fans and media as negative on it?

 

I did follow the EJ Manuel selection.  I remember people were really really hoping he’d be a good QB, but in the back of everyone’s mind we all knew he probably was going to suck. Despite this, I don’t recall many people in the media panning this pick at the time.   This was right around the time when the “draft experts” were starting to gain popularity as well as the numerous drafting sites.  It could have just been an issue of not having as much information - or the fact that the local media wasn’t as aggressive.  

 

Anyway, if you remember help me out...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

As an old time fan  - GET OFF MY LAWN  with this 3rd or 4th redundant thread about Allen versus past failures   

 

I'm not trying to be rude.   Use the search function.  From recent activity this will get merged with the many other Allen versus the past QB's 

 

 

/snark 

Edited May 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Ramza86]

I didnt believe in EJ Manuel at all. His tape was pretty bad and he didnt improve at all. 

 

Josh Allens video breakdowns are much more impressive and Allen is a better runner. 

 

I laughed when people said EJ could make all the throws. Allen can really make all of the throws. I think the kid has a shot to make it....but thats up to him and his adjustment to the NFL. 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

I didnt believe in EJ Manuel at all. His tape was pretty bad and he didnt improve at all. 

 

Josh Allens video breakdowns are much more impressive and Allen is a better runner. 

 

I laughed when people said EJ could make all the throws. Allen can really make all of the throws. I think the kid has a shot to make it....but thats up to him and his adjustment to the NFL. 

 

EJ could make a bunch of the throws, just not any of the useful ones 

 

Allen looks much better on tape than EJ

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

EJ could make a bunch of the throws, just not any of the useful ones 

 

Allen looks much better on tape than EJ

IMHO - Until JA steps onto a real NFL field with other professionals, we don't know what he'll do.  

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

IMHO - Until JA steps onto a real NFL field with other professionals, we don't know what he'll do.  

 

 

That goes for every draft pick ever.

[Kirby Jackson]

I think that it is much more likely Allen succeeds than either of those 2. Multiple NFL teams had Allen at the top of their board in a great QB draft. Losman was thought of as a reach in 2004 (although not a massive one). He would have been like taking Rudolph at 22. He was down a tier (at least) from the top. EJ was considered a total project in arguably the worst QB draft ever. If he were in this class he may very well have been a day 3 pick. All 3 had obvious deficiencies but Allen is certainly would have been considered the best of the 3 at this juncture.

3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

That goes for every draft pick ever.

There was a poster here who will remain anonymous that preferred Karlos Williams to Zeke before Zeke played a game for that reason.

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is much more likely Allen succeeds than either of those 2. Multiple NFL teams had Allen at the top of their board in a great QB draft. Losman was thought of as a reach in 2004 (although not a massive one). He would have been like taking Rudolph at 22. He was down a tier (at least) from the top. EJ was considered a total project in arguably the worst QB draft ever. If he were in this class he may very well have been a day 3 pick. All 3 had obvious deficiencies but Allen is certainly would have been considered the best of the 3 at this juncture.

There was a poster here who will remain anonymous that preferred Karlos Williams to Zeke before Zeke played a game for that reason.

 

Good post.

I agree.

 

[Sky Diver]

Allen is not JP Losman and he's not EJ Manual. He's not anyone but Josh Allen. The comparisons and silly and ridiculous. Let the guy play.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

To any old time fans, is the whole Josh Allen debacle similar or different to the most recent attempts at drafting a Bills QB in JP Losman and EJ Manuel.

 

I was around for the JP Losman pick but obviously did not have Twitter and wasn’t on the Bills message board yet.  So to any old time fans what was the reactions to Bills drafting JP Losman?  Was it as polarizing as the Josh Allen pick and were fans and media as negative on it?

 

I did follow the EJ Manuel selection.  I remember people were really really hoping he’d be a good QB, but in the back of everyone’s mind we all knew he probably was going to suck. Despite this, I don’t recall many people in the media panning this pick at the time.   This was right around the time when the “draft experts” were starting to gain popularity as well as the numerous drafting sites.  It could have just been an issue of not having as much information - or the fact that the local media wasn’t as aggressive.  

 

Anyway, if you remember help me out...

 

For Manuel, most were very happy the Bills had finally moved on from Fitzpatrick and DRAFTED A QB.  There were cautious notes of people saying he had stunk up the joint in college, was only making half field reads and had "slow eyes", which were shushed up quickly.  Most people agreed that he was raw and would have to sit a while and learn (if he could learn) and when Kolb had his epic encounter with the bathmat and he was thrown in then injured, we worried.  There are some similarities, but I think they're really pretty super ficial.

 

I don't remember Losman reaction.  I had toddlers and a new, demanding job.   If I got to watch a game I was doing well.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Allen is not JP Losman and he's not EJ Manual. He's not anyone but Josh Allen. The comparisons and silly and ridiculous. Let the guy play.

 

The point of the OP is asking people to comment or compare fan reaction to the various picks, not to compare the picks themselves.  The OP has no football to watch.  Let the guy play.

[Sky Diver]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

For Manuel, most were very happy the Bills had finally moved on from Fitzpatrick and DRAFTED A QB.  There were cautious notes of people saying he had stunk up the joint in college, was only making half field reads and had "slow eyes", which were shushed up quickly.  Most people agreed that he was raw and would have to sit a while and learn (if he could learn) and when Kolb had his epic encounter with the bathmat and he was thrown in then injured, we worried.  There are some similarities, but I think they're really pretty super ficial.

 

I don't remember Losman reaction.  I had toddlers and a new, demanding job.   If I got to watch a game I was doing well.

 

 

 

The point of the OP is asking people to comment or compare fan reaction to the various picks, not to compare the picks themselves.  The OP has no football to watch.  Let the guy play.

 

There were naysayers, but in general, there was cautious optimism about Manual and Losman with the recognition that both needed time to develop. The reaction was nothing like the travesty we are seeing now.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Sky Diver

[ddaryl]

I had hope for JP and EJ (etc....) but since I've seen so many failures I have little hope and just want to actually see success. This is what 20+ years of inept ability to address the QB position does to a person. I will jump on the Allen bandwagon when I see he is obviously going to be the answer. Until then I can only sit back and wait for the baby to be shown

[mjt328]

Back in 2004, we still had Drew Bledsoe.  There wasn't a feeling of total desperation for us to draft a QB.  Because of that, the move-up for JP Losman was a pretty big surprise, and I don't think people had a great handle on him as a player - at least compared to today, where fans watch hours of online videos to prep themselves.

I recall there were a lot of Brett Favre comparisons with JP Losman, and everyone kept saying how bad Green Bay wanted to draft him.  So even though we was a little bit of a reach (most figured early 2nd Round), I think most fans convinced themselves it was a smart move.

 

With EJ Manuel in 2013, I think most fans were just happy to see the Bills take a CHANCE ON SOMEONE.  Buddy Nix had let three years pass by without drafting anyone, seemingly content with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB.  Most fans didn't care if we had to reach.

Before the draft, there were lots of warnings on how terrible the QB class was going to be.  But the Bills had really backed themselves into a corner.  There were lots of rumors that Doug Marrone wanted to draft Ryan Nassib at #8 overall, which really freaked some of us out (he ultimately went in the 4th Round).  At least with Manuel, there were supposedly teams interested in taking him at the end of Round 1 or beginning of Round 2.  After the pick was over, there was some relief that we didn't pick Nassib, some frustration we didn't take Geno Smith and mixed feelings on Manuel overall.

 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Back in 2004, we still had Drew Bledsoe.  There wasn't a feeling of total desperation for us to draft a QB.  Because of that, the move-up for JP Losman was a pretty big surprise, and I don't think people had a great handle on him as a player - at least compared to today, where fans watch hours of online videos to prep themselves.

I recall there were a lot of Brett Favre comparisons with JP Losman, and everyone kept saying how bad Green Bay wanted to draft him.  So even though we was a little bit of a reach (most figured early 2nd Round), I think most fans convinced themselves it was a smart move.

 

With EJ Manuel in 2013, I think most fans were just happy to see the Bills take a CHANCE ON SOMEONE.  Buddy Nix had let three years pass by without drafting anyone, seemingly content with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB.  Most fans didn't care if we had to reach.

Before the draft, there were lots of warnings on how terrible the QB class was going to be.  But the Bills had really backed themselves into a corner.  There were lots of rumors that Doug Marrone wanted to draft Ryan Nassib at #8 overall, which really freaked some of us out (he ultimately went in the 4th Round).  At least with Manuel, there were supposedly teams interested in taking him at the end of Round 1 or beginning of Round 2.  After the pick was over, there was some relief that we didn't pick Nassib, some frustration we didn't take Geno Smith and mixed feelings on Manuel overall.

 

 

 

The irony is Fitzpatrick is 2013 was a WAY better player than Bledsoe in 2003. 

[Bills757]

EJ was a late third round pick at best.  It wasn't his fault DW decided to pull the trigger in the first.  Whaley was either going to look like a genius or an idiot for picking him when he did.  We all know how that turned out.

[K-9]

In terms of excitement and anticipation to see our shiny new toys, all three are comparable by that measure. I also share the same concern about footwork and lower body mechanics as all three were/are a train wreck from the waist down at times. All three had/have cannon arms, too. I think JP and EJ were pretty much at their ceilings coming out whereas Allen is just scratching the surface of his development. I suspect he will have a better aptitude for the game, too. 

[C.Biscuit97]

My personal reaction is a million times more negative because of JP and EJ.  I support these guys through and through. I feel like there were fans and media who never gave them a chance from the second they were drafted.  They were put in bad situations and developed poorly here.

 

And while both of their developments were embarrassing here, I obviously overlooked real flaws in their games.  I felt EJ had all the physical and mental abilities to be a great qb but he seemed robotic.  Losman had a lot of tools but he wasn’t liked by his teammates.

 

So when I see the Bills pick a guy who has similar problems as JP and EJ #7 overall, it’s kinda hard to take.  I’ve never seen a player escape blame more than Allen.  It’s not his fault. It’s his oline, receivers, & coaching.  His footwork is fixable (it really gets fixed in the nfl).  He improved in the offseason in shorts.

 

i want Allen to be good but the overwhelming evidence over many years of NFL qbs is it’s really hard for this type of guy to make it.  I was blinded by wanting JP and EJ (who arguably had better college careers than Allen) to be good.  As I’ve gotten older, I just don’t want to blindsided again.  It’s hard for me visioning a scenario where Allen becomes worth the investment.  But I certainly hope I’m wrong because I so badly want us to have found the guy.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

As an old time fan  - GET OFF MY LAWN  with this 3rd or 4th redundant thread about Allen versus past failures?   

 

I'm not trying to be rude.   Use the search function.  From recent activity this will get merged with the many other Allen versus the past QB's 

 

 

/snark 

 

.......hell 'Shady, he could be the next Daryle "Mad Bomber" Lamonica, right??.............

[Sky Diver]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

My personal reaction is a million times more negative because of JP and EJ.  I support these guys through and through. I feel like there were fans and media who never gave them a chance from the second they were drafted.  They were put in bad situations and developed poorly here.

 

And while both of their developments were embarrassing here, I obviously overlooked real flaws in their games.  I felt EJ had all the physical and mental abilities to be a great qb but he seemed robotic.  Losman had a lot of tools but he wasn’t liked by his teammates.

 

So when I see the Bills pick a guy who has similar problems as JP and EJ #7 overall, it’s kinda hard to take.  I’ve never seen a player escape blame more than Allen.  It’s not his fault. It’s his oline, receivers, & coaching.  His footwork is fixable (it really gets fixed in the nfl).  He improved in the offseason in shorts.

 

i want Allen to be good but the overwhelming evidence over many years of NFL qbs is it’s really hard for this type of guy to make it.  I was blinded by wanting JP and EJ (who arguably had better college careers than Allen) to be good.  As I’ve gotten older, I just don’t want to blindsided again.  It’s hard for me visioning a scenario where Allen becomes worth the investment.  But I certainly hope I’m wrong because I so badly want us to have found the guy.

 

Envision harder?

[C.Biscuit97]

45 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

EJ was a late third round pick at best.  It wasn't his fault DW decided to pull the trigger in the first.  Whaley was either going to look like a genius or an idiot for picking him when he did.  We all know how that turned out.

But given his flaws and lack of production, Josh Allen could have been a 3rd round pick too. I compare him to Blaine Gabbert or Christian Hackenberg. 

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Envision harder?

I’m really trying!  I want him to be good just like I want every Bills player to be.  I just feel like I’ve seen this movie before and know the ending.

 

and I think they done good things on defense, but I’m not at all sold on their offensive player evaluations.