Alonzo Highsmith explains why he flipped from Darnold to Mayfield

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Just about every other draft pick they interviewed said something about making teams know they shouldn't have passed them up. But see, you single him out because you have been told to. The media focused on it, so you focused on it. But watching with my own eyes, and thinking, I could see that many many of the players said that same thing. And again, thinking back, I can remember that being said in past drafts too. It is almost a customary thing to say. Tom Brady has made a career of it.

I think it's less about what he said and more about how he said it. If he just said something along the lines of "I want to make every team who passed on me regret it" no one would care. But he conveyed the same basic message in about the lamest fashion imaginable. 

 

It sort of put the exclamation point on what a lot of people had been saying about him for a while.

[BillsFan17]

40 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Allen supporters said his supporting cast helped explain his poor completion percentage.

“Baker Mayfield lost two receivers and he was the same quarterback,” Highsmith said.

 

Uhhhh...Oklahoma replaces 4-5 star players with more 4-5 star players. They are a machine. They could lose the entire roster and come back with the most talented team in the country.

 

I think Mayfield is great...but Oklahoma will still compete for a national championship this season without him.

 

Wyoming is...Wyoming. Think they'll win 8 games and a bowl this season without Allen?

 

This guy works for an NFL franchise. Incredible.

 

Goes to show how dumb people can move up so high in NFL front offices.

Bingo! I mean, no excuses should be made for a seventh overall pick, but Allen lost a thousand yard plus RB and WR going into 2017-18.

 

Mayfield replaced his losses with 

Marquise Brown a four star recruit 

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/225451/marquise-brown

 

CeeDee Lamb a four star recruit 

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/212995/cedarian-lamb

 

And still had Andrews, one of the top TEs in college football.

 

But yeah, let's let the Browns brass act like Baker was playing with scrubs.

[grb]

37 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

The likely reality is all of these guys are very good, but flawed prospects.  I think you can make a case for mitigating any of the flaws making any of the 4 a clear #1.

 

If Baker was 2 inches taller and had just slightly less "swagger" it could swing him.  If Darnold turned the ball over just a little less and lived up to USC's playoff expectations.  If Rosen had just slightly less "Rosen" in his personality and didn't have quite the concussion concerns.  If Allen had matriculated to a bigger school and performed well.  Any of those things swing any of the guys to a "clear #1".  I've said through the whole process I would be ok with any of the four and the reality was the 4th guy being so close to the 1st was a good thing that was being spun to a negative.  It wouldn't surprise me one bit if any of the 4 turned out the best and any of the 4 were a bust.

 

Yep. Pretty much this. All of the four top quarterbacks have talent, potential and problems. All could be top quarterbacks; all could be busts. Per draft history it's little more than the roll of the dice. At this point it's kinda silly to be frantically "selling" what you yourself purchased, or trashing the other options you decided to pass up. Water under the bridge, huh? Might as well wait and sees how it plays out on the field.

 

As for Rosen, it's getting more and more bizarre watching people trash him on the basis of nothing. whatsoever. Geez, the guy makes a I Want To Prove The People Who Didn't Draft Me Were Wrong comment - one of the oldest sports cliches in the business - and heads of snowflakes everywhere explode. I guarantee if Mayfield went tenth he'd have made a very similar comment and people would have found his cockiness admirable. Yet Rosen doesn't just get hate - but passionate hate to boot. Me? Pretty much the old sports figure I hate is gawdforsaken Brady - and he had to be insufferable successful, win far too many championships and marry a supermodel before being worth the effort. What has Rosen done to deserve all this spleen?

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by grb

[Kelly the Dog]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Ironically, for me, the seemingly endless series of self-defense articles featuring Rosen in which he wanted to show how good of a guy he is led me to think that he's a straight-up narcissist. It honestly seemed pretty clear to me by the end of the process, and then he punctuated it with his ridiculously petulant "rue the day" rant after being selected as a TOP TEN PICK. Really unlikable. You're right, though; there are tons of successful jerks in the NFL, and as I always say, for a large percentage of pro players (many of whom are borderline psychos), if not for the NFL, jail.

Thurman had a rue the day rant and used it his entire career and rode it all the way to the Hall of Fame. I truly don't see how feeling snubbed, which everyone of these guys would have felt if chosen forth, and then saying I felt snubbed and I'm going to use it to motivate me and prove these people wrong is bad in any way. 

 

Just another example of fans wanting owners and execs and coaches and players to be honest in interviews and then hating it when they get it. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Mayfield did have his own character question marks.

 

while your take on each guy may be accurate, it feels like you are letting your opinions color your arguments too strongly 

 

I hear ya, but I also said they all had pros and cons, not just Rosen.  But Baker didn’t have the same type of character questions marks as Rosen.  They were very much different and also quickly moved past on Baker. Meantime, teams continuously were evaluating Rosen’s and researching how to “reach him”, “manage him”, “engage him”.  

 

Hence, Baker going #1 overall and Rosen never even considered despite so many here and other mock drafters saying Rosen as a QB in terms of skill was “the best pure pocket passer in the draft and most ready to play”.  

 

Again, I would have been excited about drafting Rosen like I would have about any of the top QB prospects.  But I felt he had the most risk of any of the top QBs between the personality and durability question marks.

 

Its all good, we had our choice, and Bills went Allen.  So F Rosen and Go Allen  Most my opinion that seems like it’s coloring my argument too much as you pointed out is not so much about Rosen directly and more about all the freaking out and negativity on the board about Choosing Allen over Rosen, which has been over the top. 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

GIVE ME A BREAK HERE.  Rosen's character was being torn to shreds in the media.  It's the job of his agents to try to redeem him.  There are crowds of hungry journalists looking for something to print.  They weren't getting stories from Jackson, his mom was picking which calls from teams she'd return and never has given journalists the time of day.  Rosen controversy was good clicks and newsstand.   Agent lined up the stories like a series of hoops, gave the calendar to Rosen, Rosen jumped through the hoops like a good boy.  Allen and Darnold weren't doing similar because no one was trashing their character so their agents weren't setting it up. 

 

Mayfield had some issues, and there were stories on him, too (presumably also set up by his agent)

 

That "seemingly endless series of self-defense articles" tells you NOTHING, NOTHING about Rosen's character nor indicates narcissism, and the fact that someone thinks it does (when it's well known top agents handle their prospects PR and SM as part of their services) just shows how out-of-control this whole "bash Rosen" bandwagon has gotten. 

 

Badlands Meanie already responded to the "ridiculous rant" thing.  If Mayfield had dropped and said the same it would show how edgy and competitive he is.

Speak for yourself. If Mayfield had reacted like that, I would have thought the same about him. I'm not merely regurgitating media points; I'm making up my own mind. 

16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Thurman had a rue the day rant and used it his entire career and rode it all the way to the Hall of Fame. I truly don't see how feeling snubbed, which everyone of these guys would have felt if chosen forth, and then saying I felt snubbed and I'm going to use it to motivate me and prove these people wrong is bad in any way. 

 

Just another example of fans wanting owners and execs and coaches and players to be honest in interviews and then hating it when they get it. 

Fair enough. I never said he wouldn't be good. I also think that a large percentage of these guys are meatheads and often a-holes (e.g., Cornelius Bennett, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly), so it's not as if I think Rosen is a particularly bad apple.  He seems like a narcissist to me (and as you know, it's not the politics, because I'm further to the left than he is), but even if he is, maybe that'll do him well in the NFL. It's impossible to tell at this point. I have no idea how good any of the top four guys will be, and neither does anyone else here. I just find it kind of odd that people are leaping to the defense of this guy's character given that he comes across as a bit of a putz in the interviews I've read. He can be a the better pick (vis-a-vis Allen) and the less likable person at the same time, after all. At the end of the day, I just want the Bills to win. QB personality matters to an extent relative to that overriding concern, and I don't really know how good Beane and McDermott are on that front. My small-ish concern at present is that they have no tolerance for freethinkers and use ill-suited heuristics (e.g., being from an NFL family) to make an assessment of a player's willingness to be a "process guy." I could be wrong about them too; they haven't been around long enough for me to form a judgment one way or the other.

Edited May 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[YoloinOhio]

16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Thurman had a rue the day rant and used it his entire career and rode it all the way to the Hall of Fame. I truly don't see how feeling snubbed, which everyone of these guys would have felt if chosen forth, and then saying I felt snubbed and I'm going to use it to motivate me and prove these people wrong is bad in any way. 

 

Just another example of fans wanting owners and execs and coaches and players to be honest in interviews and then hating it when they get it. 

I don’t think it was what he said or that he plans to use it as motivation that rubbed some the wrong way. It was that it seemed to place inauthenticity on everything he said leading up to the draft about not wanting the be the top pick and being more interested in going to the right team, that he would rather be a later pick, etc. His post-draft rant seemed to capture raw emotion that most would think is the real him, and makes people question what he was presenting pre-draft process. I heard Dari Noka on espn radio relay a story on Saturday about how he was doing interviews at the draft and Rosen had just been drafted - he was visibly angry and sat there with his cardinals hat twisting it around, fighting back tears. Just interstesting to see how he really felt when it was all said an done. Especially given the fact he still went top 10. He also apologized the day after and said it wasn’t 9 mistakes made before him, it was 3 (QBs).

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think it was what he said or that he plans to use it as motivation that rubbed some the wrong way. It was that it seemed to place inauthenticity on everything he said leading up to the draft about not wanting the be the top pick and being more interested in going to the right team, that he would rather be a later pick, etc. His post-draft rant seemed to capture raw emotion that most would think is the real him, and makes people question what he was presenting pre-draft process. I heard Dari Noka on espn radio relay a story on Saturday about how he was doing interviews at the draft and Rosen had just been drafted - he was visibly angry and sat there with his cardinals hat twisting it around, fighting back tears. Just interstesting to see how he really felt when it was all said an done. Especially given the fact he still went top 10. He also apologized the day after and said it wasn’t 9 mistakes made before him, it was 3 (QBs).

Every single one of these kids at the highest level is an ego maniac. Big Ego is a great trait for a professional athlete. You can't be great without it. Some guys know or are coached or taught to say the politically correct thing when they are interviewed. And we get nothing out of it. Tyrod was furious when he was benched. As pissed as Rosen was. Fred Jackson was furious with the Bills when they lowballed him with a contract they knew he had to sign. As pissed as Rosen. And yet they went up to the podium and lied about it. 

 

Some fans would say they were being diplomatic and they were being good guys. But they were telling their teammates and officials and friends and family the complete opposite. I don't see this as being a great guy (although both of them were). The point is that Rosen is arrogant and not afraid to tell people what he thinks. He probably did change his mind from predraft to post draft. Most all other guys in his position are arrogant and are afraid to show their true selves. It's clearly hurt Rosens status before and after the draft. 

 

I understand why people hate it and don't want to hear it. But know that those same people are being lied to and bamboozled by endless streams of pro athletes just as arrogant but scared to be themselves in front of the cameras. And are real pricks off stage. Rosen may be one too. I don't know. A lot of reports both ways. 

 

Personally I find his act refreshing. And not because I like him as a player. I would find Riley Ferguson refreshing if he was like that. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

I think Rosen's hot tub picture with a girl in there was his way of saying "Ha! I am the starting Quarterback of the glamorous, high profile, "Hollywood" UCLA Bruins, relaxing in my hot tub with a pretty girl, and you are not." 

 

What irritated me about that photo is that he  is the starting Quarterback of the glamorous, high profile, "Hollywood" UCLA Bruins, relaxing in his hot tub with a pretty girl, and I am not.   

 

I think the difference between me, and pretty much everyone else, is that I think it was also pretty dang funny. To me it was just guy humor that has I guess become old school and people don't get it any more. And I think of people in the press like Jerry Sullivan who would just seethe over something like that and I think there are plenty of guys like him.

 

What I am leading up to here is that i think people are not taking into account how much flak Rosen took and took in whisper campaigns and every single sportswriter repeating how he is this bad guy and how disliked he is. And pretty much ignored the provable, verifiable statements of those who gave their names and who said he was a good guy.

 

How would you be after six months of that? 

 

And then, in my opinion, Rosen thinks they got him. He said he figured he should go in the top 3 and that is pretty reasonable based on how he played and what risks he has versus the others. So he may figure the whisper campaign actually got him and actually dropped him down and after 6 months of it, he was mad.

 

I don't think it is fair, or even reasonable,  to look a guy in that circumstance of the moment and then say , "Oh see how he is?"

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[BBillsWestCoast]

17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Even after getting Allen, Beane still won't give you the order of how he ranked the QBs, which is fine. You want everyone to believe you got your guy.

 

He definitely had at least 1 guy ranked higher than Allen. I think it may have been Darnold, Baker, then Allen, but I am just guessing. I believe that they wanted big strong and mobile, plus the dude should see over the line. In Baker's defense, he is a mini Brett Favre personality wise.

[Bing Bong]

4 hours ago, bobobonators said:

 

Yes. A girly frame. Females are naturally narrower at the shoulders than males. So what is so offensive about that to get you fired up? I didnt say a word about any of the other QB’s. Not sure why youre bringing them up here. 

 

We can already have 30 threads about Allen sucking on April 30 but if i say Rosen, who isnt even on the Bills, has a girly frame someone gets triggered. 

I don't like prejudice based on appearance. That's all. If the world was based on that we would miss out on so many talented athletes.

 

I get your point. He is likely injury prone in the NFL.

Edited May 1, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Bing Bong]

11 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Bravo!! Well said!

Good take. Shocker: young NFL players might respect a guy that DGAF what old media dudes sitting around pining for some distorted image of old school Roger Staubach say. They want to ball for their fanbase not some weirdo scout/interview testing your mettle by asking dumb questions. And then blast you for trolling the question.

 

That's all Rosen's been doing. Doesn't take them seriously and just says random controversial stuff. Loved the SEC slam because.. why not? Is he a d***? Yeah probably. But a fun troll to watch interviewed by a troll.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Speak for yourself. If Mayfield had reacted like that, I would have thought the same about him. I'm not merely regurgitating media points; I'm making up my own mind.

 

Fair enough.  Others, however, seem to label Mayfield "edgy" or "feisty" or "competitive" for similar behavior (while Rosen's rant is ridiculous).

 

I stand by my point that the articles about him most likely reflect the efforts of his agents to generate positive PR, vs. indicating narcissism on his part.  (That's not to say he isn't a narcissist - he might indeed - just a bunch of PR-ish articles likely set up by his agents don't show it)

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think it was what he said or that he plans to use it as motivation that rubbed some the wrong way. It was that it seemed to place inauthenticity on everything he said leading up to the draft about not wanting the be the top pick and being more interested in going to the right team, that he would rather be a later pick, etc. His post-draft rant seemed to capture raw emotion that most would think is the real him, and makes people question what he was presenting pre-draft process. I heard Dari Noka on espn radio relay a story on Saturday about how he was doing interviews at the draft and Rosen had just been drafted - he was visibly angry and sat there with his cardinals hat twisting it around, fighting back tears. Just interstesting to see how he really felt when it was all said an done. Especially given the fact he still went top 10. He also apologized the day after and said it wasn’t 9 mistakes made before him, it was 3 (QBs).

 

I think you're bringing up fair points - it's a fair cop to say "hey, Rosen, you said you didn't care where you were picked if you went to the right team, if you're all wadded up here are you thinking the Cardinals aren't the right team or was that previous 'dont care where I'm drafted stuff' just BS?"    And I agree the rant captured raw emotion.

 

I'm not sure from what I've heard that you're correct about what rubbed people the wrong way.  I think they took the words of themselves and judged them, which is their right.

I'm not sure how reasonable that is, though there might have been details of the wording (like 9 mistakes vs 3) that rub people wrong.

 

Being drafted 10th and not 5th costs a guy $10M ($27M vs $17M).  That has to provide a bit of salt.

[HappyDays]

Everyone seems to think Rosen's attitude was the reason he fell. I don't think that was it. Maybe for the Browns it was, they are the Browns after all. Rosen's bigger problem is that he is a statue in the pocket. He has zero mobility, he can't shake off sacks, and he can't throw on the run. In the modern NFL you need those skills to survive. He's coming off 2 concussions and a shoulder injury, and he can't escape pressure at all. That immediately worries me a lot more than a picture he took in a hot tub.

I could see Rosen being deadly if he has an offensive line like the Raiders or Cowboys have. But put him behind the Bills line and he would get annihilated. McDermott knows how hard it is to build and maintain a good offensive line these days. I'm sure that was a major reason they chose Allen instead. They see him as a Newton/Wentz type that will shake off defenders and make plays happen out of nothing. That will never be Rosen's game.

[Yeezus]

He is right

 

Josh Allen gets more excuses than any player in the entire draft 

 

"the weather was too cold in Wyoming so his WR's couldn't catch his passes" 

 

its getting hilarious at this point 

[C.Biscuit97]

I hope Rosen makes a lot of people eat their words.  He took so much BS during this process. 

[BillsFan17]

24 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

He is right

 

Josh Allen gets more excuses than any player in the entire draft 

 

"the weather was too cold in Wyoming so his WR's couldn't catch his passes" 

 

its getting hilarious at this point 

No one in their right mind used that as an excuse. No one in a legit scouting circle ever used that excuse. If you are referring to posters on this board using that, well than that's really not a valid argument here.