TD trying to work new deals for

[Simon]

take a look at the list of players from above who resigned with their clubs before free agency..........

 

You mean that big long list of guys whose teams have won 0 championships since inking them to big new deals?

 

are you telling me that those guys took less then they would have received on the open market?

I don't know, how much did they take? What are their deals and when did they sign them?

And are you telling me they are all worth whatever they are being paid?

 

his handling of the JJ and AW situations

He handled both of them exactly like he should have: Offer them exactly what they're worth instead of getting caught up in some mindless bidding war to see who can overpay them by the most.

[todd]

i have given him credit for these moves (as well as moorman)........i just hope i can give him credit for getting nate signed as well but based on his handling of the JJ and AW situations i have little faith he can get it done.......

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I'm happy with the Jonas situation. He was way, way overpaid. He got paid like a near pro-bowl OL. He's not. He's good, and that's it.

 

PW was the one we probably could have signed, but he was asking for a SB that wasn't worth it for an aging DL, especially considering we have Sam Adams, who is way better than PW.

 

Winfield was overpaid by the Vikes. Way overpaid. That's one you can't argue.

[bobblehead]

I'm happy with the Jonas situation. He was way, way overpaid. He got paid like a near pro-bowl OL. He's not. He's good, and that's it.

 

PW was the one we probably could have signed, but he was asking for a SB that wasn't worth it for an aging DL, especially considering we have Sam Adams, who is way better than PW.

 

Winfield was overpaid by the Vikes. Way overpaid. That's one you can't argue.

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I was travelling when Jonas was signed, so I got to hear sports radio in Detroit and Atlanta when this happened. Stations in both cities thought SF overpaid. In fact, Jonas was on THE FAN in Atlanta when I was there, the jock asked him what he saw in SF that attracted him to go there, his answer was that Buffalo did not ask him what he wanted. The radio jock must have been satisfied by the answer, cuz he moved on.

 

Not that any of this is relevant to the thread, but I'm on two Red Bulls today. I need to stay occupied.

[Bill from NYC]

You mean that big long list of guys whose teams have won 0 championships since inking them to big new deals?

I don't know, how much did they take? What are their deals and when did they sign them?

And are you telling me they are all worth whatever they are being paid?

He handled both of them exactly like he should have: Offer them exactly what they're worth instead of getting caught up in some mindless bidding war to see who can overpay them by the most.

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Simon, I agree with you when you stated that TD does not do "windows." He is experienced at working for less rich owners, and seems to be more interested in putting a decent team on the field every season, rather than go for that one push.

 

Billick was on the NFL channel this morning. He said that the Ravens are in great cap shape becausse a couple of years ago, they cleaned house and fielded the youngest team in the NFL. Now, they are signing away, seemingly ready to make another move at the title.

 

I am not totally sure as to which method is right or wrong but wrt JJ and PW, I am in support of those moves. We are going in essence with a rookie qb, do not have a ton of cap room, and no first round pick. 05, imo, was not the year to overspend, assuming such a time does exist.

[Simon]

I am not totally sure as to which method is right or wrong

 

I've always thought this was a great debate, with valid points on both sides of the issue. I guess it comes down to one's own individual perspective. Personally, I'd rather be competitive every year and enjoy each season watching a good team. Winning a title will be nice some day, but I don't like the idea of having to endure 2-3 years of bad football just to slightly increase the chances of winning a SuperBowl.

If you could guarantee that plunging your team into cap hell would result in a title I might change my tune and go through some ugly years just to get the Bills off the championship schneid. But there is so much luck and random chance involved in this game that you can't guarantee anything, and as a result I just don't think it's worth the years of misery to raise the odds a few measly percentage points.

Cya

 

P.S. I'm not sure if I agree with the Bills letting PhatPat get away. I realize I'm biased in that he is one of my favorite all-time players and I realize that he is on the downward side of his career path. But I think having the NFL's premiere DT tandem was the strength of this defense and I don't think the contract he got was all that outrageous. Even with the current OLine situation, I'd feel an awful lot better aboout the next 2-3 years if we still had both those anchors at the heart of the D.

[d_wag]

You mean that big long list of guys whose teams have won 0 championships since inking them to big new deals?

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so apparantly all those teams i listed are crazy for what you would call "wildly over-spending" to keep their good, young talent around...........i, on the other hand, would call it handing out fair contracts and treating their players with respect, but to each his own.........

 

i think what many on their board fail to realize is that their are many ways to build a team.......it doesn't have to be done the way TD does it, it can be done the way MANY other GM's do it.........are they all wrong and he is right? possibly.........are they all right and he is wrong? possibly.......but at least many of those GM's are fielding playoff teams, which is more then TD can say........

[Bill from NYC]

>>>P.S. I'm not sure if I agree with the Bills letting PhatPat get away. I realize I'm biased in that he is one of my favorite all-time players and I realize that he is on the downward side of his career path. But I think having the NFL's premiere DT tandem was the strength of this defense and I don't think the contract he got was all that outrageous. Even with the current OLine situation, I'd feel an awful lot better aboout the next 2-3 years if we still had both those anchors at the heart of the D.<<<

 

Well, it will certainly change the defense. Big Sam seems like a guy who is more interested in making plays, whereas PW didn't mind occupying blockers, and of course, space.

 

I for one believe that the pass rush will improve. I said this once before....several times I saw AS try to stunt and take inside moves. He couldn't, because PW and SA are SOOO friggin huge, there was literally no room.

 

You are right, the money difference was not THAT big. I guess the coaches like Edwards.

[Rico]

so apparantly all those teams i listed are crazy for what you would call "wildly over-spending" to keep their good, young talent around...........i, on the other hand, would call it handing out fair contracts and treating their players with respect, but to each his own.........

 

i think what many on their board fail to realize is that their are many ways to build a team.......it doesn't have to be done the way TD does it, it can be done the way MANY other GM's do it.........are they all wrong and he is right? possibly.........are they all right and he is wrong? possibly.......but at least many of those GM's are fielding playoff teams, which is more then TD can say........

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AW & JJ can't touch the players you listed, they are just not that good.

Those players were worth extending... You must've been M.I.A. in 2003.

[d_wag]

AW & JJ can't touch the players you listed, they are just not that good.

Those players were worth extending... You must've been M.I.A. in 2003.

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we were talking about how those teams handling those players impending free agency vs. how TD should handle NC's.......i think that group compares favorably to NC.........

[Simon]

so apparantly all those teams i listed are crazy for what you would call "wildly over-spending" to keep their good, young talent around...........

 

As I look over that list of players again, and take into account the teams tehy play for you know what I've noticed? I don't see a single club who I'd trade the Bills roster for.

The only possible exception is the Philadelphia roster. Co-incidentally this was mostly assembled by Modrak, although I think McNabb is their Achilles heel and the primary reason I'd hesitate to trade Buffao's roster for the Iggles.

Just a few short years after a massive salary cap purge that left them fielding the worst roster in the NFL, the Bills just went over .500 against one of the league's toughest schedules, in the league's toughest division, with a rookie coaching staff and an inept QB.

I don't think the front office is doing all that bad a job.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>Just a few short years after a massive salary cap purge that left them fielding the worst roster in the NFL, the Bills just went over .500 against one of the league's toughest schedules, in the league's toughest division, with a rookie coaching staff and an inept QB.<<<

 

There was another player who was even more "inept" and cost the Bills as many games as the qb, probably more.

Other than that omission, good job.

[Simon]

There was another player who was even more "inept" and cost the Bills as many games as the qb, probably more.

Yeah, he stunk it up. But I don't think a confused RB who only plays 1/4 of the season has nearly the detrimental effect on an offense as a confused QB who regularly makes bad decisions for about 13 out of 16 games.

Either way, one down and one to go.

[Dan III]

are you telling me that those guys took less then they would have received on the open market?

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Yes, they did. All of those players you listed signed huge contracts but if they would have hit the open market, teams would have competed for their services and the price would have gone up. TD has said many times that "market value" is actually just the highest bidder. I agree.

[jester43]

Why do you think that there are no "decent offers" on the table? Is every GM in the NFL underestimating his value? As far as Travis getting a couple of starts, past w/l records tell us that these would quite probably be looses, whereas his record as a starter is far worse than that of Drew.

TD is saying what he should be saying, but when September rolls around, Travis Henry will be losing games for another football team, should he of course have a job.

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man, you really don't like the guy at all huh? i dunno...i figure there are no "decent" offers because TD doesn't want to trade the guy for a box of tape when he could really save our asses in case willis goes down. he is holding the cards here, not travis. either he gets someone (or a pick)who makes the team better, or henry stays around as a back-up. and inasmuch as a back up RB "loses" games for his team, i think shaud williams would lose us more games than henry.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

we were talking about how those teams handling those players impending free agency vs. how TD should handle NC's.......i think that group compares favorably to NC.........

275059[/snapback]

 

 

As I was reading through this thread and saw the post from you regarding the need for the Bills to resign their own, I began thinking of the several arguments and cases that indicate claims that the Bills have not signed and extended a good chunk of their young FAs (ex. Schobel, Moulds, Moorman) is simply wrong or that the Bills have hurt their building by "low-balling" (the big contracts above and big contracts for Spikes, MW, Milloy) does not also fit reality.

 

In fact, TDs willingness to give huge contracts to folks like Bledsoe and Lindell is what hurts and the Bills have clearly profitted from the lowball contracts taken by players like Adams.

 

Fortunately a good number of folks like Simon answered your claims with some good arguments. However, I take the time to post because I think their summary of simply agreeing to disagree with your perspective is actually being a bit kind to the selective facts (at best) you present.

 

The view that TD and the Bills always lowball just doesn't match the facts. Do you call the offer and signing of Milloy (which worked out) or the resigning of Bledsoe (which did not work out) lowball offers?

 

Are the extensions of Schobel and Moorman easily ignored?

 

Are signings like Adams which were below market rate bad things and should TD have offered more up front to him or to Spikes?

 

I think a good chunk of folks are not peeved at all about the way the JJ deal went down as folks think he is a good player but simply not worth the amount the market has given LTs and what SF was willing to pay for a player who has never started 16 games in a season.

 

TD has many shortcomings which deserve to be harped upon (the GW signing was a big mistake, he will rue the day he gave the quote that good kickers are a dime-a-dozen, and the extension he gave to Henry Jones and Holocek before cutting them is yet another example where I wish TD had been more of a low-ball guy if he thought he might cut them anyway.

 

Your arguments simply do not give a full description of reality.