BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: Yea- I was trying to give a curveball that relied on traits and stepped away from pedigree. Wentz is the obvious choice but I think folks forget that luck is athletic and sub 60%. Identical wonderlic scores too. If you dropped allen at Stanford under harbaugh would we talk about them more similarly? I don't think Luck had the footwork issues that Allen has, but maybe that's a product of a higher quality coaching staff?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, wppete said: Agreed he is not there yet. However only 19, the most athletic ILB I have ever seen, incredible size and length and come from a football family. At the end of the day I believe Tremaine ends up a better ILB See, this is the thing that makes me believe that Allen really was their #1 choice all along and they drafted him for legit football reasons. They made exactly the same call between Edmunds and Vander Esch - they took the less polished guy with gaps in his game but sky high athletic traits and intelligence. And then as pointed out, there are parallels between two guys Beane had a hand in drafting (Newton and Kuechly) and two guys he just drafted (Allen and Edmunds) 1 1
ngbills Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 Newton was a top recruit in the nation. Allen not so much. Newton went 14-0 and was a beast in the best conference in football. Allen was mediocre in one of the worst.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: See, this is the thing that makes me believe that Allen really was their #1 choice all along and they drafted him for legit football reasons. They made exactly the same call between Edmunds and Vander Esch - they took the less polished guy with gaps in his game but sky high athletic traits and intelligence. LVE was pretty raw and inexperienced too, no? The real question is whether they would have taken Edmunds if Roquon Smith was still available.
Lurker Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: IMO if Allen had cleaned up the accuracy just a little bit and played (and performed well) at a "football factory" school, he'd be the clear #1 pick this year. Newton profile: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cam-newton?id=2495455 (8.19 grade) Allen profile: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-allen?id=32462018-0002-5600-29bc-8750224414bd (5.90 grade) Hey, they're about equal in he 3-cone drill...
BmarvB Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) He don't have to be the next coming of Cam Newton or Jim Kelly. All he needs is to be the best Josh Allen he can be. Edited April 30, 2018 by BmarvB 1
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I don't think Luck had the footwork issues that Allen has, but maybe that's a product of a higher quality coaching staff? Thats what I’m getting at. If allen was at every major camp since he was 12 and had harbaugh odds are he’d be a little more polished. Likewise if we step back from their reputations of being perfectly polished vs major project...again, luck in a great college system was 70% but nfl he’s 59%.... Allen’s probably smarter than given credit for... did maybe results and reputation widen the reputation gap? I’m talking looking at the paint not the painting. Figured I’d throw it out as a closer than Cam example Edited April 30, 2018 by NoSaint
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I don't think Luck had the footwork issues that Allen has, but maybe that's a product of a higher quality coaching staff? Well, Luck is the son of a former college and NFL QB I believe. So I suspect his higher-quality coaching may have started at home.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Bills4life1924 said: If in an imaginary world the bills got Cam Newton before the draft, most fans I would expect to be ecstatic. But in reality, Allen gets bashed before even putting on a bills uniform. In no way am I comparing the 2, but I am an Allen supporter and hopeful he turns out to be our guy we have been waiting for It was nice getting a QB with Allen's potential. When Cam came out I said then that draft was a failure if they didn't come out of it with Cam Newton............and I was certain before he even declared that he would go #1 and even after a terrible combine and pro day throwing the ball that he'd be gone before we picked. Rest is history.........Cam is basically the difference between these franchises.....which includes multiple playoffs and a SB run....... since that pick. I wanted Darnold then Rosen.........but some years Allen could have gone #1 and we'd have gotten shut out entirely. 1
Kelly the Dog Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 If he just cleaned up his accuracy? That's like saying, if Flint, Michigan just cleaned up its water it would be Gross Pointe.
freddyjj Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 Cam got tossed out of FLA for suspected academic cheating (3x) and for stealing a laptop in 2008. When leaving JUCO his dad was trying to sell his services for $180,000. Josh Allen had no issues at either college he attended and other than some infantile/juvenile tweets, had no marks on his record. They are very different personalities and players with different records and skill sets. I don't see the similarities except size. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: LVE was pretty raw and inexperienced too, no? The real question is whether they would have taken Edmunds if Roquon Smith was still available. Inexperienced, yes, but my sense is he isn't felt to have the same issues as Edmunds in over-pursuing and getting fenced out of the play, while Edmunds is the physical freak. That was really my only point in the comparison, that Beane and co. seem to be making consistant choices when drafting with two talented guys left on the board. What they'd do if a guy who was drafted above them was still there, is a question I can't answer.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, ngbills said: Wentz won two championships in college didnt he? I think they may have had a pretty good team. They won the championship all five years he was there. he redshirted in year one, and barely played in year two and three, so you can't really even say he elevated his team all that much.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Cam got tossed out of FLA for suspected academic cheating (3x) and for stealing a laptop in 2008. When leaving JUCO his dad was trying to sell his services for $180,000. Josh Allen had no issues at either college he attended and other than some infantile/juvenile tweets, had no marks on his record. They are very different personalities and players with different records and skill sets. I don't see the similarities except size. JMO, but I think the similarities are: 1) potential scheme - that Allen is seen by our coaches and Beane as capable of executing some of the same play elements that Newton executes for Carolina. 2) both have spotty accuracy as passers and benefit by having a big target WR with a wide catch radius 1
PrimeTime101 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: JMO, but I think the similarities are: 1) potential scheme - that Allen is seen by our coaches and Beane as capable of executing some of the same play elements that Newton executes for Carolina. 2) both have spotty accuracy as passers and benefit by having a big target WR with a wide catch radius Yep I totally agree with this assessment
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, ngbills said: Wentz won two championships in college didnt he? Wentz was on a perennial powerhouse. 2011 (before Wentz was on the team) they were 14-1 and won the championship 2012 (Wentz had 16 passing attempts this year) they went 14-1 and won the championship 2013 (Wentz had 30 passing attempts this year) they went 15-0 and won the championship 2014 (Wentz's first full year as a starter) they went 15-1 and won the championship 2015 (Wentz's final year) they went 13-2 and won the championship Wyoming was 2-10 the year before Allen started for a year. 3
ngbills Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: I think they may have had a pretty good team. They won the championship all five years he was there. he redshirted in year one, and barely played in year two and three, so you can't really even say he elevated his team all that much. Like one man said "I want Winners". I agree with that. I dont think its a ll or nothing argument. But I do think it is telling about a guy especially a QB. It means something to know how to win, be used to winning, to hate losing. Allen by all accounts has been on mediocre teams in JC and College. Even in High School he did not dominate. Especially telling was in his Sr year the best team they played beat them twice. Both times he was awful. Like less than 100yd awful. He has thus far always been bad against good competition.
racketmaster Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 Both have a rare combination of size and mobility. Cam was a little more athletic and powerful as a runner, but Allen is not that far off. Both are good in short yardage situations and Allen may have a little better ability to shrug off defenders while Newton has a little more explosiveness. Not exact players physically but they are similar and the Bills are right to see a little of Newton in Allen when watching the tape. Both also have high end arm strength. Also very similar to Newton but I believe Allen’s arm is even stronger than Newton's arm. Allen's arm strength comparisons are Favre, Elway and Stafford. Having this arm strength allows Allen to throw to all parts of the field and he will be less impacted by windy conditions. Both players have had some issues with accuracy.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ngbills said: Like one man said "I want Winners". I agree with that. I dont think its a ll or nothing argument. But I do think it is telling about a guy especially a QB. It means something to know how to win, be used to winning, to hate losing. Allen by all accounts has been on mediocre teams in JC and College. Even in High School he did not dominate. Especially telling was in his Sr year the best team they played beat them twice. Both times he was awful. Like less than 100yd awful. He has thus far always been bad against good competition. in 2016 he led Wyoming to a win over #13 Boise State. It was the first time Wyoming had defeated a ranked team since 2002. Edited April 30, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13 1
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