Annoyed at the negativity

[JohnC]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:53 AM, GunnerBill said:

My opinion on Allen is well known. It is based on film study of him in college and I stand by it.  If people think that makes me negative that is up to them but I don't change my opinion on people just because they become Bills. 

 

However, I am done giving my opinion on Josh Allen now. The only person who can change my opinion is Josh Allen and so now I will keep quiet and give him the opportunity to do so with his play. I'm equally fully expecting that even if he does succeed we will need to be patient on his development.

Bandit will now allow you to ride on his bus. However, no free rides. Bring some tokens.

 

Of all the top tier qbs it was understood that he would require more time before being ready to play. If patience wasn't part of the equation he wouldn't have been selected. 

 

 

[blacklabel]

Criticism of the team or the decision makers is fine. What gets me is people constantly calling for decision makers to be fired before the choices they've made have even had the chance to show what they can do. Being in a state of constant flux from the top down is most certainly a surefire way to start another drought. No one says you have to like them, but if you're ready to write off the front office and coaching staff after one full season (which included the first playoff berth in 17 seasons) and one draft, I don't know what to tell you because your expectations are unattainable. 

 

And as another individual said on draft night (I can't recall who), there will be some "fans" on this board more interested in getting the opportunity to reinforce their outlooks on certain players if those players bust. It's lame but there are definitely a contingent of posters that will flock to this board to squeal "I TOLD YOU SO" at the top of their lungs the minute Josh Allen has a bad game or the second Ray-Ray McCloud drops a pass while Equinameous St. Brown has two receptions for 28 yards and a meaningless score for the Packers or something. Happens every year.

 

I wasn't exactly psyched for Allen, but clearly there isn't a single iota of knowledge anyone on this board or any fan can share with any NFL team that they don't already know about these players. Clearly, Rosen is not viewed as highly by NFL teams as he is by fans, otherwise he would've come off the board first as he's "easily" the most NFL-ready QB with the most refined skill set combined with natural pocket-passer traits. I really think teams have hang ups about his durability. I mean, he might be able to hit the weight room and fill out his frame a little more but as he is right now, I'm sure a lot of GMs were thinking, "Man, this kid is gonna be on the sidelines for six weeks the minute he takes a hit from an NFL edge rusher."

 

I trust the decision makers at OBD right meow. I trust the McBeane vision. They're well-aware that their jobs hinge on Allen's outcome. They know the kid better than any of us. They must have a pretty solid plan on how to develop him. And they must feel pretty good about the kid's chances to become a franchise signal caller. 

 

Nobody wants to get ahead of themselves and start believing right away that Allen is gonna be a boom. Given the track record the Bills have for developing franchise QBs it's easy to fall into the negativity. But... if you're drawing up a QB in a lab, Allen is the prototype, so at least they're starting there. And that's not just from a physical standpoint, plenty of 6'5" 240 lb. QBs enter the league and never amount to anything more than a backup due to how they approach the game or their mentality on the field. From what we've seen, there isn't a throw that Allen fears or believes he can't make, which has been the case with EJ, Tyrod and Fitz. Yeah, all good guys, hard workers, good teammates, etc. But EJ didn't trust himself to make tight window throws and had legitimate trouble learning and retaining the things he was being taught. Tyrod plays on the conservative side and Fitz would like to believe he has a cannon but he doesn't. However that never stopped him from trying throws he probably knew he couldn't make. At least with Allen you have a player that has most definitely shown that he can make all the throws and has also shown that he has the confidence and mentality to actually pull the trigger on those types of throws. Combine that with the fact that he apparently aced all sorts of white-board tests during his interviews with teams and is said to possess the requisite football IQ for franchise guy and I'd say out of the last handful of starting QBs the Bills have put on the field, it's Allen who likely has the best shot to turn into the franchise guy they've been chasing since Jim Kelly hung up the cleats in '96. 

 

At least that's what I'm hoping for anyway. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by blacklabel

[PBLESS]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:33 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I frequent this board to discuss the Bills. I applaud what I like and question what I don’t. That doesn’t mean that I am right or wrong. It is just my opinion. I’m not going to blindly support something that I don’t agree with. I’m also not going to dump on something because of previous mistakes. I’m not going to wait for something to be good or bad to say, “I told you so” or “these guys are idiots.” At the same time I always support the Bills and hope for the best.

 

In terms of Allen he wasn’t my first choice. I wanted Rosen. I had no issue with the price paid. It wasn’t an overpay and they got their guy. I will support him and hope that they are right. 

Even though I viewed the top 4 QBs as pretty even, and Allen was not necessarily my personal choice, I think he has as good a chance to be successful NFL qb as any of the others. I did notice that the NFL GMs evidently believed that Rosen was the least of the four, as he was the last picked. There were plenty of qb needy teams who could  have traded up if they believed in him and they did not----only time will tell. I would suggest patience.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Go through the boards.. do you no how many posts people have compared the 2? not because of what the GM's have said but flat out comparing them? its pretty easy to come to that conclusion that that's what he is getting to.  Go to the Josh Allen thread and read down each page how many different people have compared him to JP or EJ? lots.  Its not a leap when you have seen it many times on these boards Gunner. Why does it matter what the GM says about the QB? its what the QB does when he its the fields that matters. I can care less what our GM says about the guy cause its just a GM flapping his lungs making a QB pick look good. nothing more nothing less.

 

FWIW, I see it the same way Gunner does.  I think most of us know that EJ Manuel was a very different QB coming out .... he had a high completion % that was inflated by the spread, air-raid type offense he played in.  He was said at the time almost universally to have "zip code accuracy" and to be used to making half-field reads or 1 read and run.

 

Most can see that Allen has a very different background ....he played in a much more pro-style offense under center (albeit one with some RPO elements), he was expected to read the D and make at least some protection calls, and he can have pin-point laser accuracy when he's on.

 

The thing that's "goring my ox" is the same thing that's goring Gunner's ox - just how similar the rhetoric from our front office is - all the praise of Allen's incredible arm strength and physical attributes and work ethic, and no commentary about his ability to, you know, do the things a successful NFL QB has to be able to do - like read a defense before and after the snap, make correct and fast progress through his reads, make good decisions about where to throw, and throw consistently and accurately.

 

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

the thing that bugs me is smug ignoramuses like Schopp and White whose argument is pretty much as follows:

1) The Bills made the WRONG MOVE by drafting Allen.

2) You CANNOT disagree because all the DATA show clearly that it was a bad move.

3) Therefore, Beane was wrong.

4) If Allen is good people will be happy, but it was still the WRONG MOVE anyway, and they just got lucky.

 

I mean, really. LOL

 

or MAYBE Beane knows what he is doing and watched the tape and scouted the kid more than radio hosts and fans did, and therefore had more comprehensive DATA at his disposal that none of us (even the great Jeremy White) had.

 

That is entirely possible, and it may be that Beane feels comfortable he has inside gouge on Allen that makes him comfortable the kid really can make consistent throws and make NFL level decisions.  Butcha know, it would help fans a lot if he would say so then

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW, I see it the same way Gunner does.  I think most of us know that EJ Manuel was a very different QB coming out .... he had a high completion % that was inflated by the spread, air-raid type offense he played in.  He was said at the time almost universally to have "zip code accuracy" and to be used to making half-field reads or 1 read and run.

 

Most can see that Allen has a very different background ....he played in a much more pro-style offense under center (albeit one with some RPO elements), he was expected to read the D and make at least some protection calls, and he can have pin-point laser accuracy when he's on.

 

The thing that's "goring my ox" is the same thing that's goring Gunner's ox - just how similar the rhetoric from our front office is - all the praise of Allen's incredible arm strength and physical attributes and work ethic, and no commentary about his ability to, you know, do the things a successful NFL QB has to be able to do - like read a defense before and after the snap, make correct and fast progress through his reads, make good decisions about where to throw, and throw consistently and accurately.

 

Yep. Beane whenever asked brings up the fact that he's big, has a great arm, and mentions that he's perfect for Buffalo because of the weather.  Not what you want to hear given the attributes that actually lead to QB success at the NFL level. 

[Fadingpain]

On April 30, 2018 at 7:11 AM, PrimeTime101 said:

So I get it. This was a tough draft for fans. 50% like Allen and the other 50% liked Rosen and you can twist those numbers to your liking.. I don't care that's not the point.

 

What exactly happened to getting behind your team? Allen is a Buffalo Bill now, Like it or not.. So why not support the decision and hope for the best? What is with these

people day after day with repeat threads of HATE towards the Bills organization as a whole or the GM? What is with everyone with there crystal balls KNOWING he will be

an ALL PRO or a BUST? What is with comparing Allen with all our past failed QB's as if they were linked? As if this is the same GM "the same old Bills" making the "same

old bad mistakes"..

 

Come on here and complain about the pick after a year or two when we see how good or bad Allen actual is? can we actually just do that?

 

I have been a Bills fan since my first game I want to back in 1979 and have stayed with them good or bad. I Laughed, gotten mad and even cried over the first SB loss.

to many people on these boards have forgotten what being a sports fan really means. You back your team up good or bad, you back up the decisions GM and coaches

makes until they screw it up.

 

You shout! You Holler! You Swear! You Cry! You Laugh! You Clap! You complain about everything big or small but at the end you support the team!

 

Go out there and support our team.. Support the Allen pick at least until you 100% Know he is bad.. then come on these boards and be negative.

 

I support the Buffalo Bills

 

 

Thank you for the read and I will accept what ever opinion you Have

because its your right. Just don't forget the execution comes after the judgement

You're annoyed by negativity so you start a negative thread attacking 50% of the fan base.

 

Cool.

 

 

[jaybee]

Whats hilarious is no one has a clue if a QB (or any position) is going to be successful in the NFL.....yet they say bad pick.... blah'......blah.....blah.  As though they are a professional scout.  They dont know Jack, they are just keyboard cowboys and that will never change.

 

I have no idea if Josh will be successful and as far as I'm concerned they can start Orville Reddenbacher and I'll be cheering hard as I've done for the Buffalo Bills my entire life.

 

FO had their reasons for doing what they did and I support it fully as I would no matter who they selected.

 

Go Josh.  Go AJ.  Go Nathan

 

GO BILLS.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by jaybee

[Buddy Hix]

I’m guessing we are all rooting for Allen to turn into a player, as we are all Bills fans.

 

But the draft was a few days ago and the dissecting of the decision is perfectly normal.  For instance, I just read in another thread about how Allen has had major reconstructive surgery on a collar bone he’s broken twice. My reaction was “I really hate this pick.” Is that not allowed or preferred?

[Lurker]

11 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Whats hilarious is no one has a clue if a QB (or any position) is going to be successful in the NFL.....yet they say bad pick.... blah'......blah.....blah.  As though they are a professional scout.  They dont know Jack, they are just keyboard cowboys and that will never change.

 

Actually, that's just the way YOU take it.   

 

People expressing an opinion that Allen has warts that may derail his career--and that another guy would have been a better pick--are not saying they know more than professional scouts.   They're saying, [fill in blank] was a better pick IMO and Allen has warts.   You may not agree, but it's no more hilarious than your take...

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Lurker

[The Now Moment]

Does it make us a kool-aid drinker if I generally think Allen is much better than people give him credit for and have been saying this for months?  I like the players that they drafted.  I've questioned some moves but they have a vision and at the end of the day, they are the ones that have the blueprints, not us.  Nobody jumped for joy when Poyer was signed.  So many said he was an overpaid backup.  The regime has shown the ability to find guys that fit what they want to do.  Let's hope that it continues with this draft and moving forward.

[Nihilarian]

It was more like Bandit, Metz and myself liked Allen and the rest loved Rosen...the chosen.

 

Most of the board wanted the Bills to trade up to the #2 spot to draft Rosen.

[theRalph]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:43 AM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

A bunch of hate speak. Just freaking stop. 

The current regime has done nothing but reshape the roster and break a generation long playoff drought. Now they’ve drafted the most promising QB since J.K.  There is no filament connecting them to earlier regimes. Rinse your brain of these myths and join us. All Bills fans deserve compassion. Especially haters.

Rosen is a punk. He would’ve never survived The Process...he couldn’t even be a pro when he was 4th off the board...he ranted like a spoiled insolent dip schmit. 

 

All of you that wanted Rosen really don’t have any idea that it WAS NEVER A REMOTE POSSIBILITY.

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Yep. Beane whenever asked brings up the fact that he's big, has a great arm, and mentions that he's perfect for Buffalo because of the weather.  Not what you want to hear given the attributes that actually lead to QB success at the NFL level. 

It's a terrible sales job. I remember the team at the time saying the same thing about JP losman.  I'm sick of this weather strong-arm crap. I just want a quarterback who can make a God damn pass on a slant or seam route and actually lead the receiver and be accurate. I didn't think it was asking for that much.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

You're annoyed by negativity so you start a negative thread attacking 50% of the fan base.

 

Cool.

 

 

 

Just the ****ty 50%.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

It's a terrible sales job. I remember the team at the time saying the same thing about JP losman.  I'm sick of this weather strong-arm crap. I just want a quarterback who can make a God damn pass on a slant or seam route and actually lead the receiver and be accurate. I didn't think it was asking for that much.

 

 

..can you let us know how you know we did not land one?......I'm thinking your NFL resume' may serve as a starting point so we can look "up to" whom we are dealing with.....we need to respect those deserving.....the swamp gets thicker.....it's the muck...........

Edited May 1, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

..can you let us know how you know we did not land one?......I'm thinking your NFL resume' may serve as a starting point so we can look "up to" whom we are dealing with.....we need to respect those deserving.....the swamp gets thicker.....it's the muck...........

Wait .....  I’m getting confused.   

 

Are we complaining about the people complaining of the Bills players or just the Bills players and FO?

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Havent read through this......Im perfectly ok with the show me the baby crowd.

 

Lets just make sure that our crit is realistic.  

 

I need to see it because while I love Allen's physical talent Im bothered that he did not dominate against low level competition....yes that can be explained away but I need to see it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Wait .....  I’m getting confused.   

 

Are we complaining about the people complaining of the Bills players or just the Bills players and FO?

 

 

 

 

....wake up bro!...complaining for the sake of complaining is en vogue.....Allen, McBeane, sunny and 80 degrees today, Brandon's exit because of an alleged errant wanker, Josh Rosen as the new Bills Prez when he declines 'Zona, etc....what the hell ELSE do you want?....your demands are nearing "over the top territory".......Jesus..........

[Green Lightning]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

..can you let us know how you know we did not land one?......I'm thinking your NFL resume' may serve as a starting point so we can look "up to" whom we are dealing with.....we need to respect those deserving.....the swamp gets thicker.....it's the muck...........

I pray we have. Just nothing I've seen in his career or game tapes shows that we have. Maybe they can fix it -fix his footwork, fix his processing speed, fix why his QB rating dips by 50% when he's blitzed, and life will be dandy. I sure hope so. So to your point, I don't know if we have or not. I just think the other choice we had would have been better suited and had such a resume. I've seen a lot of QB projects come and go at One Bills Drive and to me this is another one. I really hope it works.

[Threedollabills]

On 2018-04-30 at 7:23 AM, Niagara Dude said:

Losers of draft by NFL.COM

 

Buffalo Bills: The Bills traded out of their No. 10 overall pick a year ago, passing on the chance to draft Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson in favor of amassing draft capital. This season, the Bills usedsignificant draft capital to trade up for quarterback Josh Allen (moving from 12th overall to seventh). The kids would call that hustling backward, especially when Allen has an uphill climb just to surpass previous Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor's level of production.

 

 

Bills fans will point to this being the first draft for GM Brandon Beane, who was hired last May, but that only emphasizes how tricky it is to come up with a cohesive roster when the GM and coach are always in flux. Allen could prove his skeptics wrong, and his athleticism is unquestionable, but Josh Rosen has clearly displayed a more obvious NFL skill set. Allen is reminiscent of a souped-up version of another Bills first-round quarterback: J.P. Losman, a player with accuracy issues who was a star in the pre-draft season because of his measurables. Losman was taken 22nd overall in the 2004 NFL Draft and proceeded to compile a 10-23 record in Buffalo.

I wonder if the 2004 Bills could've beaten Wyoming in 2016...think about it. Plus, Losman is NOT Allen in any way, shape, or form. Didn't Losman live in town and party all the time? Ask Eddie Yarborough about Allen.