US Egg Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 Another negative/positive thought. Allen can't beat out McCarron this year or next.
Chuck Schick Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, Ifartalot said: Here's a positive/negative thought: If Beane & McDermott's moves pan out and the Bills make the playoffs this year or next, Pegulas will have to ante' up big time or you can say goodbye to both of them. This isn't college. When the time comes to extend their contracts it won't be an issue.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said: I am annoyed with the all Kool-Aid drinkers who feel the Bills FO never fails, even though they had a 17 year playoff drought... The Bills FO has failed at the draft a hell of a lot more than they have been successful the last 20+ years. Trading up for Zay Jones the latest failure, and odds are this trade up for Allen will be a failure as well. You can’t blame Beane in the 17 draft. If Zay still has issues this season then your point would be valid. It was was not a good season for the kid but it’s still too early to call him a total bust. 1
ndirish1978 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 This board has become kind of toxic in regards to the QB pick. I don't like the pick, but I don't see the point starting 200 threads entitled "my opinion why Allen sucks" 1
nedboy7 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: If Edmunds and say the DT become perennial All Pros the draft was a success regardless of Allen. I disagree. But I understand your reasoning. I do hope they become studs.
MarlinTheMagician Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: This board has become kind of toxic in regards to the QB pick. I don't like the pick, but I don't see the point starting 200 threads entitled "my opinion why Allen sucks" I agree. I think it is the level of disrespect for others opinions that has the OP and others bothered, not the fact of them. I too get sucked in. I am really excited about Allen, and I respect your right to have wanted Rosen. However, the level of toxicity directed for Allen is totally unwarranted. Every time someone posts "garbage pick" about Allen, I feel compelled to defend him with a staunch "Rosen is a wanker and will be terrible." T here are of course substantive reasons why I don't like Rosen and why others don't like Allen. But those are not complicated and have all been trotted out numerous times by both sides. Now it is just foul spew - which is why I called this thread a dumpster fire earlier. Rosen may be better. Allen may be better. Only time will tell. For sure, Allen is the Buffalo Bill, not Rosen. Time to get over it and move on. Definitely my last post in any of these QB threads (which I suppose will please the Rosen side and perhaps more), but it has become tiresome and just mean spirited. 1
wagon127 Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 I can admit I went to bed Thursday night really disappointed. But once I woke up Friday, and as the day went on, I felt a lot more optimistic. We are stuck with the guy, and we will root for him. I also believe there is a good chance Rosen may not be able to stay healthy. I am not going to cheer for him to get hurt, but I think we will not be glad until Allen has a better career then Rosen. I imagine people will probably forget about the tweets in a couple of months too.
BadLandsMeanie Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I do understand! but I also say this: Over the years, we have had many new front offices which have produced more of the same 'ol, same 'ol. Organizational culture does tend to persist when a new leader is chosen, if many of the people in the trenches behind the scenes remain the same - the "lifers" - and can lead to perpetuation of the same results from new faces. For example, if you bring in 3 new coaches and 2 new GMs, but behind the scenes the scouts are the same and the same CEO is giving the same inputs into the decision process, the result is the "same 'ol". It's a face lift, not a revamp. And one of those inputs in the past, IMO, has been making draft choices for non-football reasons. Wanting the top pick to be splashy and flashy in some way, as a draw to sell tickets, for example. I don't see how anyone could watch Russ Brandon's face in the vid of the War Room during the Watkins trade and not think his fingers were all over that. Now, this regime went further than previous ones. They swept out all the scouts and hired back only their choices. A long time trainer "retired". Maybe they've made other changes - team physician? Nutritionist? behind the scenes. Maybe it's a New Era, and will lead to different results. But some of the faces are still the same. So when I hear that the Pegulas were involved in visiting/interviewing all the QB and that they and Russ Brandon were in the war room, it does arouse a level of concern in me that maybe, it's still a face lift and not a revamp - that maybe non-football factors such as political views or PR impacts were still involved in the draft selections. I hope not - I see football reasons to make the decisions that were made, albeit football reasons which inspire me to challenge Brandon Beane at poker. But when some of the same people involved in the drought are still part of the process, we can't quite say 'the new people are not the same people'. Well, your take is balanced and sensible in my opinion. But the post I was responding to was less so. It blamed this coaching staff for the drought, which is maybe the weakest possible criticism that could be made of them. And it said that the odds are that Josh Allen will be a failure, which can not be known in any reasonable way. Nobody knows about Allen's individual odds or those of any of these guys. So that post was based on a foundation that was not a good one. I agree with you that in some maybe strange way, some teams do tend to keep on being who they always have been, even with changes in leadership. I hope that isn't us!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2018 Posted April 30, 2018 54 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Well, your take is balanced and sensible in my opinion. But the post I was responding to was less so. It blamed this coaching staff for the drought, which is maybe the weakest possible criticism that could be made of them. And it said that the odds are that Josh Allen will be a failure, which can not be known in any reasonable way. Nobody knows about Allen's individual odds or those of any of these guys. So that post was based on a foundation that was not a good one. I agree with you that in some maybe strange way, some teams do tend to keep on being who they always have been, even with changes in leadership. I hope that isn't us! I'm going to guess that somewhere, in some dark room, there's a couple of analytics guys that wouldn't know a 'go' route from a 'post' who have sliced and diced all sorts of possible odds and have a number there for each QB. And after all their pains, you're STILL RIGHT, because intangible factors like heart and desire and not just how hard a guy works, but how smart a guy works, factor into success, and any quantitation of that is at heart B. S. The "strange way" isn't so strange at all. I've seen it over and over in various fields. New bosses come in, with a new leadership team. New Day! New Plan! New Way! Meanwhile the middle management doesn't buy in and puts out the same effort in the same way, while nodding and lip syncing the new song. So the grunts at the bottom sing "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". The owner of an adventure and white-water rafting company once told me even with fairly extensive turnover, when they acquired new trips from another company it always took 3 years to "change the culture" of the guides. In a football team, that "middle management" would include the lunch-pail work-a-day players as well as trainers and staff and of course stars who don't "buy in". It's why I feel Beane and McDermott deserved benefit of the doubt in all of the personnel moves they make right now. You simply can't change culture by keeping things the same, and our view from the outside on what's best for the talent level on the team, simply can't account for that culture factor that they're eye to eye with. 2
PrimeTime101 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Posted April 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Perk71 said: Go BILLS!! 3 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said: Go Bills. #BillsMafiaUnited woo! go Bills! 1
Buffalo86 Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 11 hours ago, horned dogs said: Yes the world has this problem for sure. People who don't care what others think or respect others opinions. And, then they mask it with hyperbole. Not caring what people think isn't necessarily the same as not respecting others' opinions. At least, that's not the way I intended it. I respect your opinion, but it doesn't bother me in the least if you don't like some QB that I like. If it did, that would be the greatest catastrophe known to mankind. (hyperbole) 1
Georgia Bill Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 Here's what I envision. Every time Allen has a bad game, we are going to be reminded that "we should have taken Rosen". It is going to go on for years, and it is going to get old. Here's hoping he can help us climb the big mountain and win a Super Bowl because honestly that's the only way I see the grumbling coming to an end. Sad.
Sky Diver Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 I would have been happy with any of the top four, except Rosen. He would have been a horrible fit for the team and the city. Now that I have learned more about Allen, I think he was a great pick. I’m really excited to watch him develop.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, Georgia Bill said: Here's what I envision. Every time Allen has a bad game, we are going to be reminded that "we should have taken Rosen". It is going to go on for years, and it is going to get old. Here's hoping he can help us climb the big mountain and win a Super Bowl because honestly that's the only way I see the grumbling coming to an end. Sad. ? %. Until a QB brings us to a SB people will pitch a fit and want the other guy.
Wily Dog Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 We will have the false fans i feel forever. They are the ones who delight in the trials of others and lurk on the fringes and will pounce when a player has a problem or supposed problem , and then trumpeted to all who will listen. There were numerous times last year when this happened. They are not Bills fans. Sadly , we will have to put up with them.
NickelCity Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 I honestly don't think there are many people who won't give Allen a chance. To me that line of reasoning seems like an extension of the pre-draft argument by those who wanted Allen. I wanted Rosen at the time, and I was pissed when we took Allen. However he is still an elite prospect, and I hope he's a legend. I think virtually all posters here feel that way. Enough with this narrative that some significant portion of Bills fans want him to fail. Hogwash.
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 1, 2018 Posted May 1, 2018 Because Primetime101 the logic of trading Glenn, trading two 2nd Rounders and #12 for a guy who had that college career is questionable. Has never dominated at any level of football. Our GM sounds just like Whaley discussing EJ Manuel. He’s tall, he has a big arm, he has presence. But you don’t hear Beane speak on his ability to read a defense or throw a ball accurately. Somehow what a QB actually has to do physically gets left out of the evaluation.
PrimeTime101 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Because Primetime101 the logic of trading Glenn, trading two 2nd Rounders and #12 for a guy who had that college career is questionable. Has never dominated at any level of football. Our GM sounds just like Whaley discussing EJ Manuel. He’s tall, he has a big arm, he has presence. But you don’t hear Beane speak on his ability to read a defense or throw a ball accurately. Somehow what a QB actually has to do physically gets left out of the evaluation. EDITED So From talking to Gunner I changed my thoughts on this post and I guess this is just where the negativity has gotten to me. I added together you thinking that because prior GMS and current GMS are saying the same thing that you must think Allen is another JP or EJ. I am not sure if that where you were getting to but I shouldn't assume it. Edited May 1, 2018 by PrimeTime101 1
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