Annoyed at the negativity

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would say that every Q B picked is a project in some sense.  None of the guys picked this year, or any year really, have experienced NFL defenses, the speed that decisions have to be made, and so on.  It's the degree to which a QB is a project that may vary.  I wanted Rosen because I thought he's more ready to play, i.e. has a shorter learning curve.  And I feel he has a higher ceiling.  That does not mean I think Allen will be bad though.

 

Beane said it before the draft, and I think it's correct.  Every guy out there had flaws, it's which flaws you felt you could deal with.  They felt they could deal with Allen's.  So it's now on them to fix them.  We all hope they will.

 

I agree with you completely that every QB is a project.  And there are some things which are hard to quantify which play into a guy's ultimate failure or success. 

 

I hope they can fix Allen's flaws.  I'm skeptical because I'm now 0 for 2 in my (proven wrong) belief that 2 previous Bills QB could be 'fixed' to be more accurate and make better decisions under stress.

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, CLTbills said:

For every one of these, there's another draft "review" out there giving the Bills high marks for their draft. 

 

These draft "reviews" are as useless as mock drafts. These kids haven't stepped on the field for even a rookie minicamp yet. 

AGREE!

[BuffaloSol]

Everyone "knows" so much about the projection of a drafted player, but no one here is an NFL Scout.  

 

One thing we can all be happy about is we don't have to listen to our adult QB whining at every press conference. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[PrimeTime101]

I think what I hoped I would get out of this thread has happened, Some have disagreed with me others agree but my whole point is having a healthy conversation abut it instead of insulting other posters, telling them they are clueless, insulting there a fan or not (other then one post lol) and move on. Its conversation we have not been able to have on these forums yet tbh. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Losers of draft by NFL.COM

 

Buffalo Bills: The Bills traded out of their No. 10 overall pick a year ago, passing on the chance to draft Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson in favor of amassing draft capital. This season, the Bills usedsignificant draft capital to trade up for quarterback Josh Allen (moving from 12th overall to seventh). The kids would call that hustling backward, especially when Allen has an uphill climb just to surpass previous Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor's level of production.

 

 

Bills fans will point to this being the first draft for GM Brandon Beane, who was hired last May, but that only emphasizes how tricky it is to come up with a cohesive roster when the GM and coach are always in flux. Allen could prove his skeptics wrong, and his athleticism is unquestionable, but Josh Rosen has clearly displayed a more obvious NFL skill set. Allen is reminiscent of a souped-up version of another Bills first-round quarterback: J.P. Losman, a player with accuracy issues who was a star in the pre-draft season because of his measurables. Losman was taken 22nd overall in the 2004 NFL Draft and proceeded to compile a 10-23 record in Buffalo.

This post has I don't know how many links in it. but not the ONE link it needs, which is to the article itself.

 

Did you make it up? Did you alter the text? No way to know unless you show the source you copied it from.

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

Everyone "knows" so much about the projection of a drafted player, but no one here is an NFL Scout.  

 

One thing we can all be happy about is we don't have to listen to our adult QB whining at every press conference. 

I am not sure if you were around during the Jim Kelly days but I am here to tell you he was as cocky and over confident as they come. People loved it and hated it but ya know what? He backed it up.. Lets just see if Allen/Rosen can back up what they say to the press with there gameplay!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I think you have me wrong sir. I am not telling people to support him at all nor have I told others to support him.. but lets not judge him based on Bills past draft picks or based on a crystal ball that you know he will be garbage!

 

Edited

 

Is me asking Bills fans to at least support the guy until we no he is garbage? Are you going to go to the first Bills fan and BOO him when he walks out on the field? Or go to his first game he starts and BOO him when he come on field? Some how I don't think so

 

No, of course I won't BOO any Bills player.  Well, if he murdered someone or beat his pregnant girlfriend and was still on the team, I would BOO him.

But you seem - and I could be misinterpreting you - to be linking criticism on a message board with not supporting the player or the team.  All I'm saying is that people judging a player on some basis or criticizing a GM decision, and bringing it to a message board to discuss, is a legit part of being a fan and doesn't mean that fan won't support the team.

 

Again, maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but what I take from your post is that you want to see criticism of Allen and of Beane's pick of Allen to be put on "pause" 'til some future date, in favor of supporting the team.  What I'm saying is I feel criticism of both can be made, and still support the team and be a fan.

 

I do hear from others that call-in lines on WNY radio shows have been just flooded with over the top critique of the dumbest "he sucks!" "he'll bust!" kind, and maybe that's part of the "support the team!" frustration here.

[Epstein's Mother]

12 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Great post. Remember the 2 win seasons before Kelly years? Guess we just have to wait and see right?

 

I remember going to a game in Kelly's first year here and the stadium was electric.  I don't recall who they were playing but I remember he got dinged up and went to the locker room.  When he walked back out of the tunnel to return to the game the stadium just erupted.  I still get chills just thinking about it.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Billsflyer12 said:

I am equaled annoyed that if you at all question your teams decisions, you are not a real fan.  Fandom is not blind loyality and shouldn’t be.

 

I am not huge fan of Beane or McD, and I hate the Allen pick.  I vented for a couple of days and explained why I hated it so much.  Yet, I am moving on.  I don’t have the energy or desire to keep fighting something I can’t change.

 

The Bills have been my team for 45 years.  It never has benn, or will never a be unconditional.  I will not like hires, picks and game plans, and that is ok.  I will voice my concerns when I feel they are really a true concern.

 

My excitement for the future took a big hit Thursday, but at end of day I will still be watching Sundays from here in Colorado.

Its not about questioning decisions. It is about INSISTING you know more. Over and over. On and on. When that is just crazy talk.

 

So if I am saying I know for sure the Bills made an error on the QB pick, but I did ONE BILLIONTH of the work they did, all I am really doing is being annoying. 

 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, of course I won't BOO any Bills player.  Well, if he murdered someone or beat his pregnant girlfriend and was still on the team, I would BOO him.

But you seem - and I could be misinterpreting you - to be linking criticism on a message board with not supporting the player or the team.  All I'm saying is that people judging a player on some basis or criticizing a GM decision, and bringing it to a message board to discuss, is a legit part of being a fan and doesn't mean that fan won't support the team.

 

Again, maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but what I take from your post is that you want to see criticism of Allen and of Beane's pick of Allen to be put on "pause" 'til some future date, in favor of supporting the team.  What I'm saying is I feel criticism of both can be made, and still support the team and be a fan.

 

I do hear from others that call-in lines on WNY radio shows have been just flooded with over the top critique of the dumbest "he sucks!" "he'll bust!" kind, and maybe that's part of the "support the team!" frustration here.

yea I think you have me wrong sir. I could of been more specific in my original post but I didn't want to make it lengthy I agree with most of what you have said. But I also think I have made it clear now witch posts really drive me nuts.. that's all

 

I think we both expressed our opinions quite well lol and should move on from it

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

I am annoyed with the all Kool-Aid drinkers who feel the Bills FO never fails, even though they had a 17 year playoff drought... The Bills FO has failed at the draft a hell of a lot more than they have been successful the last 20+ years.  Trading up for Zay Jones the latest failure, and odds are this trade up for Allen will be a failure as well.

Well here is an odd post.

 

We have a new front office. And they ended the drought.

 

So the new people who are not the same people,, who ended the drought instead of kept it going, can't be blamed for what the other people, who are not the same ones, did.

 

Do you understand?

[nedboy7]

I think there is some confusion with not liking the pick with not supporting Allen once the season begins. They are no where close to being inclusive. You want to lecture someone for not supporting their team you should talk to the Taylor haters who never supported their qb and called for his head even after the team made the playoffs.  Disgusting. Yeah yeah he is last years news.  But to say just cause you are a fan of this team you have to support their draft analysis is pure garbage. 

16 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

For every one of these, there's another draft "review" out there giving the Bills high marks for their draft. 

 

These draft "reviews" are as useless as mock drafts. These kids haven't stepped on the field for even a rookie minicamp yet. 

 

The negative reviews seem to be based in stats and the current film. Not on imaginary ideas. The positive ones are based on arm strength and some magical potential he has.  Sure I hope he is the next Kelly. If he is not this draft is a complete disaster and the GM should be fired. 

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Well here is an odd post.

 

We have a new front office. And they ended the drought.

 

So the new people who are not the same people,, who ended the drought instead of kept it going, can't be blamed for what the other people, who are not the same ones, did.

 

Do you understand?

and yep.. odd post.. and this is the idiocy that drives me nuts.,. his is the garbage I have been talking about in my original post.. people living in the past. with there own personal crystal ball lol.. This is what I've been talking about since original post.

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So I get it. This was a tough draft for fans. 50% like Allen and the other 50% liked Rosen and you can twist those numbers to your liking.. I don't care that's not the point.

 

What exactly happened to getting behind your team? Allen is a Buffalo Bill now, Like it or not.. So why not support the decision and hope for the best? What is with these

people day after day with repeat threads of HATE towards the Bills organization as a whole or the GM? What is with everyone with there crystal balls KNOWING he will be

an ALL PRO or a BUST? What is with comparing Allen with all our past failed QB's as if they were linked? As if this is the same GM "the same old Bills" making the "same

old bad mistakes"..

 

Come on here and complain about the pick after a year or two when we see how good or bad Allen actual is? can we actually just do that?

 

I have been a Bills fan since my first game I want to back in 1979 and have stayed with them good or bad. I Laughed, gotten mad and even cried over the first SB loss.

to many people on these boards have forgotten what being a sports fan really means. You back your team up good or bad, you back up the decisions GM and coaches

makes until they screw it up.

 

You shout! You Holler! You Swear! You Cry! You Laugh! You Clap! You complain about everything big or small but at the end you support the team!

 

Go out there and support our team.. Support the Allen pick at least until you 100% no he is bad.. then come on these boards and be negative.

 

I support the Buffalo Bills

 

 

Thank you for the read and I will accept what ever opinion you Have

because its your right. Just don't forget the execution comes after the judgement

  Some people confuse critical thinking with being exclusively negative.  Critical thinking can take you to a negative conclusion but it also can lead you to other conclusions that can be positive depending on the content you are analyzing.  

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I think there is some confusion with not liking the pick with not supporting Allen once the season begins. They are no where close to being inclusive. You want to lecture someone for not supporting their team you should talk to the Taylor haters who never supported their qb and called for his head even after the team made the playoffs.  Disgusting. Yeah yeah he is last years news.  But to say just cause you are a fan of this team you have to support their draft analysis is pure garbage. 

no one said you have to or have not to support a pick in the draft.. its about supporting what has already been done and hope.. HOPE.. things pan out!

[nedboy7]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

no one said you have to or have not to support a pick in the draft.. its about supporting what has already been done and hope.. HOPE.. things pan out!

 

you Clearly didn’t understand my post. Oh I hope it pans out. Cause otherwise this draft was a giant disaster. 

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Some people confuse critical thinking with being exclusively negative.  Critical thinking can take you to a negative conclusion but it also can lead you to other conclusions that can be positive depending on the content you are analyzing.  

So lets then clarify things. I am not frustrated over people criticizing the decision. if you read replies its the Crystal ball users, the post smashers, the people who doubt your "fanhood" that drives me crazy

Just now, nedboy7 said:

 

you Clearly didn’t understand my post. Oh I hope it pans out. Cause otherwise this draft was a giant disaster. 

reread now I do.. COMPLETLY AGREE HAAH!

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I think there is some confusion with not liking the pick with not supporting Allen once the season begins. They are no where close to being inclusive. You want to lecture someone for not supporting their team you should talk to the Taylor haters who never supported their qb and called for his head even after the team made the playoffs.  Disgusting. Yeah yeah he is last years news.  But to say just cause you are a fan of this team you have to support their draft analysis is pure garbage. 

 

The negative reviews seem to be based in stats and the current film. Not on imaginary ideas. The positive ones are based on arm strength and some magical potential he has.  Sure I hope he is the next Kelly. If he is not this draft is a complete disaster and the GM should be fired. 

If Edmunds and say the DT become perennial All Pros the draft was a success regardless of Allen.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

Well said. I am not annoyed by differences of opinions or even heated debates. Debate is healthy. As I told all of my children as they were growing up: Have your own opinions and believe what you want to believe, just be able to articulate what you believe and why you believe it - while being respectful of other opinions. What does annoy me is the manner in which a small minority of posters express their opinions: (1) As if every opinion they have is somehow superior to any other opinion out there, (2) The opinions have to be delivered as if they are facts, and (3) They feel the need to become aggressive and personal with anyone who disagrees with them. 

 

I have been visiting this board for many years and there are posters, such as you, Gunner, Hapless, and others, that I respect a great deal, equally as much for the for (1) the content of their posts and (2) the reasonable, thoughtful, and respectful ways they articulate their opinions.

 

You have eloquently captured the paradox of the mod's life.  Like cat herders, we're here to try to walk the line between grading the way someone's opinion is expressed ("he sucks" vs "27 glossy 8 x 10 color photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one") vs maintaining civility by pruning back the overly aggressive and personal, and the overly repetitive (numerous threads on the same topic, "crusading" or the same views inserted into many different topic threads, "campaigning").

 

So just a little friendly reminder, there is a text "report post" in the upper right.  The mods can't be everywhere, and part of the reason why this board remains one of the best football discussion boards anywhere is the willingness of the community to be self-policing and walk that line, too.  If you feel someone has crossed the line from being minimalist in how he expresses his opinion ("he sucks" when you wish he'd get out at least ONE 8 x 10 glossy color photograph and write 3 sentences, just for variety), to being aggressive and personal or way off topic, tip off a mod with the report function and we'll look into it.  Might not see it the same way you do, but it will be noted if it becomes a repetitive pattern.

 

And lastly, Go Bills!

[GunnerBill]

Let me ask it this way.... did any of you when you were a kid ever think your parents made a wrong decision? About where to go on holiday, about whether to move house about whether to invite wider family round for Christmas? I know I did. I thought my parents made wrong decisions frequently and would tell them so. It didn't mean I didn't love my parents it just meant I thought they had made a wrong decision. Supporting the Bills is the same.  The fact I think they made a wrong decision in drafting Josh Allen doesn't mean I love the Bills any less it doesn't even mean I have anything personal against Josh Allen - while he is a Bill I will cheer for him and live the consequences of every throw he makes and every throw he doesn't the same as the rest of you.