JohnC Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I just think this might be an all time DL class. I think there could be maybe 3 or 4 genuine elite talents up there. The kind of players who will do the opposite of what you are suggesting and will make the averageness around them look better. We have 10 picks. If I can get someone I think is genuinely elite at say #3 I am not trading it to take a good LT at say #8 and a good WR at say #21. That to me is drafting for need. If there is an elite DL prospect on the board at your pick in the NFL draft and you don't take them then in my mind you better be taking a Quarterback. If it is not an elite DL prospect then I favour trading back - tho still with the caveat that I am not sure at this stage there is a QB out there that a team is going to be desperate to go up for. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view. We have multiple units that aren't even NFL level. These multiple deficiencies need to be addressed. I'm anticipating that we will be near the top of the draft board. We can trade down and still get a very high end prospect and more. With a judicious trade down and wise use of our copious cap $$$ we can in short order inflate a deflated roster. Scarcity of talent is not better than an abundance of talent. Right now we are at below scarcity. When you are mired in the muck of mediocrity don't be afraid to be creative when trying to change your putrid status. Don't be fearful and act timidly. Quote
GunnerBill Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view. We have multiple units that aren't even NFL level. These multiple deficiencies need to be addressed. I'm anticipating that we will be near the top of the draft board. We can trade down and still get a very high end prospect and more. With a judicious trade down and wise use of our copious cap $$$ we can in short order inflate a deflated roster. Scarcity of talent is not better than an abundance of talent. Right now we are at below scarcity. When you are mired in the muck of mediocrity don't be afraid to be creative when trying to change your putrid status. Don't be fearful and act timidly. Never think elite at a key spot is less worthy than good at 2 spots. The teams that win have 3 or 4 elite players. Good players help. But elite players win. Edited October 3, 2018 by GunnerBill Quote
JohnC Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Never think elite at a key spot is less worthy than good at 2 spots. The teams that win have 3 or 4 elite players. Good players help. But elite players win. You are making a mistake when you assume that you can't get an elite player or near elite player in a trade down. You can trade down from 2-6 to 12-15 and and still get an exceptional player. Very often by being flexible and creative you can get more than by being conventional and conservative. If I can get a high yield prospect at 12-15 with a move down and add a second round pick to my menu of picks I would jump on that opportunity. I'm not saying your approach is wrong. What I am saying is that this very thin roster needs a lot of bolstering. By being both creative and judicious you can accelerate the process. Quote
GunnerBill Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, JohnC said: You are making a mistake when you assume that you can't get an elite player or near elite player in a trade down. You can trade down from 2-6 to 12-15 and and still get an exceptional player. Very often by being flexible and creative you can get more than by being conventional and conservative. If I can get a high yield prospect at 12-15 with a move down and add a second round pick to my menu of picks I would jump on that opportunity. I'm not saying your approach is wrong. What I am saying is that this very thin roster needs a lot of bolstering. By being both creative and judicious you can accelerate the process. You can but it is higher risk. If I can get a slam dunk pass rusher in the top 5 I ain't moving. Not a chance. Quote
JohnC Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You can but it is higher risk. If I can get a slam dunk pass rusher in the top 5 I ain't moving. Not a chance. You and I are riding different choo choo trains. Quote
Sky Diver Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 On 5/3/2018 at 10:02 AM, Buffalo30 said: It's projected to be a very solid offensive line class as of right now. Depending on how things go, I think next year will be an offensive heavy draft to help out Allen. Jonah Williams, Alabama. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I just think this might be an all time DL class. I think there could be maybe 3 or 4 genuine elite talents up there. The kind of players who will do the opposite of what you are suggesting and will make the averageness around them look better. We have 10 picks. If I can get someone I think is genuinely elite at say #3 I am not trading it to take a good LT at say #8 and a good WR at say #21. That to me is drafting for need. If there is an elite DL prospect on the board at your pick in the NFL draft and you don't take them then in my mind you better be taking a Quarterback. If it is not an elite DL prospect then I favour trading back - tho still with the caveat that I am not sure at this stage there is a QB out there that a team is going to be desperate to go up for. This is where I’m at (specifically Bosa and Oliver at this point). We will also pick early in the 2nd and 3rd and have multiple 4ths & 5ths. They can EASILY pick 4 guys before the end of day 2 even without trading down. They could start with something like: - Bosa - Deebo Samuel - Michael Dieter - Isaiah Prince That is maybe a touch optimistic on the guys but you get the point. You add a starting WR, 2 starting OL and potentially a star pass rusher. I much prefer that. You need some difference makers. Edited October 4, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 14 hours ago, Mark Vader said: I like the first three picks, and getting players like Myles Gaskin, Jalen Jelks & Hunter Renfrow in the later rounds is all good. However, if the Bills end up with the #2 overall pick, then they should definitely look into trading down. The first round is rich with Defensive Line talent, and there could be a quarterback someone might really want. Jonah Williams is a great prospect, but I think he would last past the 2nd overall pick. I know I'm dreaming, but i would love to draft LB Chase Winovich. He could replace Lorax and I'm sure he would be a Process guy. My man! Chase is another one of my boys! I hope we get the top pick ( which will probably be QB Justin Herbert) and we would get a good haul in a trade down and would make up some of the picks we lost for Allen and Edmunds. 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: My man! Chase is another one of my boys! I hope we get the top pick ( which will probably be QB Justin Herbert) and we would get a good haul in a trade down and would make up some of the picks we lost for Allen and Edmunds. Herbert looks nothing like a 1st overall pick to me at this stage. Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Herbert looks nothing like a 1st overall pick to me at this stage. It's the QBs man, Quote
GunnerBill Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: It's the QBs man, You have to look who is likely to be picking one too.... I have 6 possible Quarterback teams (Denver, NYG, Miami, Jacksonville, LAC, Tampa) but none of them would I call a "desperate" need. There are currently 7 teams who have got starting QBs picked in the top 12 of the last two drafts who are feeling differing degrees of good about their guys. It is a strange year to my mind with very little urgent Quarterback need and no stand out prospect and as a result I don't see teams reaching up the board in the first round - especially when it looks a pretty talented draft at a lot of other spots. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You have to look who is likely to be picking one too.... I have 6 possible Quarterback teams (Denver, NYG, Miami, Jacksonville, LAC, Tampa) but none of them would I call a "desperate" need. There are currently 7 teams who have got starting QBs picked in the top 12 of the last two drafts who are feeling differing degrees of good about their guys. It is a strange year to my mind with very little urgent Quarterback need and no stand out prospect and as a result I don't see teams reaching up the board in the first round - especially when it looks a pretty talented draft at a lot of other spots. You need to add New England to that list. Quote
GunnerBill Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: You need to add New England to that list. Yep - true. But again, not desperate need... though if TB12 does pack it in then they DO become a desperate need. If that happens and I was Belichick I'd trade for Nick Foles or Sam Bradford and wait for the 2020 class. Quote
mannc Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Herbert looks nothing like a 1st overall pick to me at this stage. Herbert's only played half a season each of the past two years. As of now, he looks like a solid top 12 pick to me. He's upped his game from last year and might very well look like a no. 1 overall by the end of the season. He certainly has the tools. Lots of football left. Quote
JohnC Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Herbert looks nothing like a 1st overall pick to me at this stage. Neither did Mahomes or Allen for you. This is not a criticism in your judgment as much as point out that teams are willing to pay a premium for a top shelf qb prospect. My contention is that there is a good chance that the Bills will be in a draft position to parlay it into a number of high end prospects. In addition, judiciously moving down doesn't mean that you will left out of the market for a premium player with your lower first round pick that still can be a premium pick. When you have a dearth of talent and have an opportunity to add an infusion of talent then seize it. In addition to the draft because of our bountiful cap situation a number of competent players can be added to replace some incompetent players. In one year this roster can be dramatically upgraded. When you have such an opportunity that is not the time to shrink from creatively acting. Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 4, 2018 Posted October 4, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You have to look who is likely to be picking one too.... I have 6 possible Quarterback teams (Denver, NYG, Miami, Jacksonville, LAC, Tampa) but none of them would I call a "desperate" need. There are currently 7 teams who have got starting QBs picked in the top 12 of the last two drafts who are feeling differing degrees of good about their guys. It is a strange year to my mind with very little urgent Quarterback need and no stand out prospect and as a result I don't see teams reaching up the board in the first round - especially when it looks a pretty talented draft at a lot of other spots. Somebody will. I can see Denver doing it because I doubt they see Keenum as the answer and getting a "franchise" QB from a big school would make big John happy. (Btw I've seen Herbert in 3 games and he's looked pretty good) Quote
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