Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[Royale with Cheese]

If I had to bet, I think McCaron starts which I'm definitely okay with.  If Allen starts, that's even better.  I think this because I believe that the coaching staff (just a pure guess) would prefer Allen to sit and learn.  If he's tabbed to start, that means he's better than expected early on which is an absolutely great sign.  Also my excitement level would go up 10 fold.  

[Mat68]

I could be wrong but they are setting this up for Allen to just take the whole thing over and sooner rather than later.  He seems to be a hard worker.  IF he works as hard or harder than Mccarron and Petterman I think once they start OTA's and everyone on the teams sees the difference it will be only a matter of time.  What the team will see?  Quicker release, better at throwing the ball outside the numbers, when he has to throw 30 yard lasers, escape-ability, and an overall physical presence neither Peterman or McCarron carry.  Irionic, Simms is out infront of this.  He believes Allen was the most pro ready than any of the Qbs coming out.  

[Bray Wyatt]

the new mantra seems to be "earn the right" this year. I do not think this staff is married to any particular philosophy, but if Allen starts it will be because he has earned it, not because they feel the pressure to start him. Whoever is the best, will play. We will have a better idea of who that is come TC and pre-season

[Figster]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 4:23 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

The 3 best QBs in football at this moment sat on the bench, not in some altruistic effort to shield them from the horrors of the starting lineup, but because each one of them had a really solid vet QB in front of them in Bledsoe, Flutie and Favre. He'll, they might not have actually gotten any better sitting on the bench... you seem to think it's automatic that they did, but it's not. Maybe Brady and Brees have another Super Bowl each and Rodgers has 2 more if they all started from day 1. Maybe they don't. But the reason they sat had little to nothing to do with development (Brees might be the closest exception), but all to do with a significantly established pro bowl or borderline pro bowl caliber QB sitting in front of them.

 

We have AJ McCarron.

 

Maybe he proves to be obviously better than Allen as Bledsoe, Flutie, and Favre were at the time Brady, Brees and Rodgers sat on the bench, and if he does, he should start.

 

But if he doesn't, you start Allen, because he's better and gives the team a better chance to win.

I've watched good QB prospects become damaged goods over the years because of a teams poor judgement on whats considered an adequate supporting cast / coaching /system in place and functioning properly to provide everything a young prospect needs to succeed IMO. I'll use A Luck as an example because I believe under better circumstances Lucks career as a pro may have gone better both from an achievement and health standpoint in my humble opinion. Trent Edwards is another example that hits closer to home.

 

So with all due respect transplant its not just a question of who shows the most talent through training camp and preseason which can't duplicate regular season play, its a question of what is wise for the young QB prospect by way of development. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Figster

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

I could be wrong but they are setting this up for Allen to just take the whole thing over and sooner rather than later.  He seems to be a hard worker.  IF he works as hard or harder than Mccarron and Petterman I think once they start OTA's and everyone on the teams sees the difference it will be only a matter of time.  What the team will see?  Quicker release, better at throwing the ball outside the numbers, when he has to throw 30 yard lasers, escape-ability, and an overall physical presence neither Peterman or McCarron carry.  Irionic, Simms is out infront of this.  He believes Allen was the most pro ready than any of the Qbs coming out.  

 

McCarron has one big shot left at being an NFL QB.  His contract is heavily "incentive laden".  I am willing to bet he works his butt off trying his hardest

to be the Bills starting QB this year.  He has started NFL games (including a win against the Ravens) and has been an understudy for 4 years.

He could fall flat on his face but I'm not going to be surprised to see a him as a competent QB during TC and Preseason.  AJ has to know this is his

last chance to show the NFL he can be a starter.

 

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I've watched good QB prospects become damaged goods over the years because of a teams poor judgement on whats considered an adequate supporting cast and coaching /systems in place and functioning properly to provide everything a young prospect needs to succeed IMO. I'll use A Luck as an example because I believe under better circumstances Lucks career as a pro may have gone better both from an achievement and health standpoint in my humble opinion. Trent Edwards is another example that hits closer to home.

 

So with all due respect transplant its not just a question of who shows the most talent through training camp and preseason which can't duplicate regular season play, its a question of what is wise for the young QB prospect by way of development. 

 Couldn't agree with you more Figster!

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I like the optimism and I am very bullish on Allen's future, but has Simms taken into account the quality of the oline?  They'll have to at least attain mediocrity for his prediction to be credible.

 

Well... our OL is part of the question mark with this team, obviously.  If the OL is absolutely porous and terrible, I'd prefer throwing McCarron to the wolves.  But if our OL is not great, but is at least "okay," I think Allen's the better option, anyway, considering his mobility.

 

Personally, I think our OL may actually improve from last year despite the departures.  Cordy Glenn is no loss because he never played last year, anyway.  Dawkins was pretty decent as a rookie, and will hopefully take another step.  Mills was a pleasant surprise last year... but we also signed another veteran T in free agency who might push him.  I'm not really that worried about our interior OL.  I'm actually excited to see what Groy can do and Bodine has plenty of NFL starting experience.  Plus hopefully John Miller makes a leap and the Guard we drafted in the 5th round gets comparisons to Richie.

 

Our OL won't be fantastic, but as long as they prove to be average and not terrible, I still think Allen is the better option under center.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 5/14/2018 at 8:01 AM, ShadyBillsFan said:

the faster Josh learns the sooner Nate is gone?  

 

 

 

....Nate is a good PS candidate IMO......despite what the TBD haters say, let's see how the kid develops despite his MASSIVE salary......

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Figster said:

I've watched good QB prospects become damaged goods over the years because of a teams poor judgement on whats considered an adequate supporting cast and coaching /systems in place and functioning properly to provide everything a young prospect needs to succeed IMO. I'll use A Luck as an example because I believe under better circumstances Lucks career as a pro may have gone better both from an achievement and health standpoint in my humble opinion. Trent Edwards is another example that hits closer to home.

 

So with all due respect transplant its not just a question of who shows the most talent through training camp and preseason which can't duplicate regular season play, its a question of what is wise for the young QB prospect by way of development. 

 

Well apparently then you're just in Thurman#1's court, saying that it's obviously better that Allen sits on the bench because that would obviously be better for his development...?

 

 

I disagree. It might be.  It might not be. 

 

Andrew Luck didn't have anyone around him on his team.  That's the responsibility of the GM.  It really has little to do with Luck being ready to start as a rookie, it has to do with the GM who didn't surround him with any talent and didn't protect him properly with a good OL.

 

Trent Edwards, I think, is a completely different case.  He got shell-shocked after Adrian Wilson knocked him out of that game against Arizona. 

 

 

The Bills have significantly more talent than the Colts had in 2012.  We have a really good stable of RBs, solid group of TEs, one very good WR and a bunch of unknowns who are still pretty promising, and our OL, while maybe the biggest question mark, I'd say is at least not horrible and might actually be significantly better than last year.

 

But aside from all of that, if Allen is clearly the best QB during the Summer with Training Camp and the preseason and all the vets on the team see that (which they obviously would) and McDermott still names McCarron, rather than Allen the starter... well...

 

 

 

[Figster]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well apparently then you're just in Thurman#1's court, saying that it's obviously better that Allen sits on the bench because that would obviously be better for his development...?

 

 

I disagree. It might be.  It might not be. 

 

Andrew Luck didn't have anyone around him on his team.  That's the responsibility of the GM.  It really has little to do with Luck being ready to start as a rookie, it has to do with the GM who didn't surround him with any talent and didn't protect him properly with a good OL.

 

Trent Edwards, I think, is a completely different case.  He got shell-shocked after Adrian Wilson knocked him out of that game against Arizona. 

 

 

The Bills have significantly more talent than the Colts had in 2012.  We have a really good stable of RBs, solid group of TEs, one very good WR and a bunch of unknowns who are still pretty promising, and our OL, while maybe the biggest question mark, I'd say is at least not horrible and might actually be significantly better than last year.

 

But aside from all of that, if Allen is clearly the best QB during the Summer with Training Camp and the preseason and all the vets on the team see that (which they obviously would) and McDermott still names McCarron, rather than Allen the starter... well...

 

 

 

Can you honestly say Buffalo is giving Allen a good supporting cast and system to play in before regular season begins because I don't think you can. Oline is a big question mark, something we can agree on.

 

You can't go back and do things over once you trash a young QB prospects confidence IMO.

 

We have a smart HC so I'm going to have faith in the process... 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Figster

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well apparently then you're just in Thurman#1's court, saying that it's obviously better that Allen sits on the bench because that would obviously be better for his development...?

 

 

I disagree. It might be.  It might not be. 

 

Andrew Luck didn't have anyone around him on his team.  That's the responsibility of the GM.  It really has little to do with Luck being ready to start as a rookie, it has to do with the GM who didn't surround him with any talent and didn't protect him properly with a good OL.

 

Trent Edwards, I think, is a completely different case.  He got shell-shocked after Adrian Wilson knocked him out of that game against Arizona. 

 

 

The Bills have significantly more talent than the Colts had in 2012.  We have a really good stable of RBs, solid group of TEs, one very good WR and a bunch of unknowns who are still pretty promising, and our OL, while maybe the biggest question mark, I'd say is at least not horrible and might actually be significantly better than last year.

 

But aside from all of that, if Allen is clearly the best QB during the Summer with Training Camp and the preseason and all the vets on the team see that (which they obviously would) and McDermott still names McCarron, rather than Allen the starter... well...

 

 

 

 

 

Transplant,  please do not try to compare Luck and Allen.  Andrew Luck was being groomed to play QB from birth, literally.

We all know you are in the "start Allen immediately" club.  That's cool, but all of your posts making your point is not going to change

the minds of some of us who think a little patience is OK. 

 

Josh Allen could "tear it up" in TC and Preseason and look better than any rookie QB in years, if that happens I might say start him day 1.

I really don't think that will happen and we will all have to wait to see the summer unfold.

 

No one can compare Andrew Luck and Josh Allen from this point in their respective careers and think it is the same. 

I'm looking forward to your talking points on starting Allen immediately just like the TT saying in Buffalo thread!

 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Can you honestly say Buffalo is giving Allen a good supporting cast and system to play in before regular season begins because I don't think you can. Oline is a big question mark, something we can agree on.

 

Can I honestly say that? No more than you can honestly say they aren't. 

 

You're talking like Beane drafted Josh Allen after spending the offseason not worrying about the rest of the team.

 

Shady and Ivory and Cadet is a good, maybe extremely good backfield... much better than last year simply by letting go of Tolbert.

 

Clay is a really good TE. O'leary I honestly think will be productive in the NFL for a long time. Logan Thomas has tons of potential for a TE.

 

Benjamin is at least a true #1 WR. McDermott I assume had plenty of input in last year's draft, so I'd say he still has confidence Jones can be a capable #2, but besides him there are players like Reilly and Streater who I'm excited to see along with the vet Kerley and some other players.  Our WR corps is already better than last year just with a healthy Benjamin.

 

As I said, the OL is the biggest question mark, but just because it's a question mark means it's automatically going to be worse so don't start the rookie. They might be better than last year. They might be pretty good.

 

1 hour ago, Figster said:

You can't go back and do things over once you trash a young QB prospects confidence IMO.

 

We have a smart HC so I'm going to have faith in the process... 

 

Will you still have faith in the process if Allen is named starting QB week 1?

[Figster]

15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Can I honestly say that? No more than you can honestly say they aren't. 

 

You're talking like Beane drafted Josh Allen after spending the offseason not worrying about the rest of the team.

 

Shady and Ivory and Cadet is a good, maybe extremely good backfield... much better than last year simply by letting go of Tolbert.

 

Clay is a really good TE. O'leary I honestly think will be productive in the NFL for a long time. Logan Thomas has tons of potential for a TE.

 

Benjamin is at least a true #1 WR. McDermott I assume had plenty of input in last year's draft, so I'd say he still has confidence Jones can be a capable #2, but besides him there are players like Reilly and Streater who I'm excited to see along with the vet Kerley and some other players.  Our WR corps is already better than last year just with a healthy Benjamin.

 

As I said, the OL is the biggest question mark, but just because it's a question mark means it's automatically going to be worse so don't start the rookie. They might be better than last year. They might be pretty good.

 

 

Will you still have faith in the process if Allen is named starting QB week 1?

absolutely

[Augie]

On 5/14/2018 at 2:41 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

FWIW... Vegas sure thinks Allen will be starting a lot of games this year.

 

Over/Under for games started by Allen is more than any of the other rookie QBs at 10 1/2 games.

 

 

Huh...I’m a wait and see guy. I’d rather not rush it unless he clearly looks ready as judged by the staff, but I certainly would have guessed Darnold and Rosen would have been projected for more starts. 

 

Time will tell....

Edited May 17, 2018 by Augie

[Figster]

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Huh...I’m a wait and see guy. I’d rather not rush it unless he clearly looks ready as judged by the staff, but I certainly would have guessed Darnold and Rosen would have been projected for more starts. 

 

Time will tell....

The highest odds for Allen is a reflection of the experience at the position each team has IMO.

 

McCarron is very limited in comparison when it comes to experience.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Transplant,  please do not try to compare Luck and Allen.  Andrew Luck was being groomed to play QB from birth, literally.

We all know you are in the "start Allen immediately" club.  That's cool, but all of your posts making your point is not going to change

the minds of some of us who think a little patience is OK. 

 

Josh Allen could "tear it up" in TC and Preseason and look better than any rookie QB in years, if that happens I might say start him day 1.

I really don't think that will happen and we will all have to wait to see the summer unfold.

 

No one can compare Andrew Luck and Josh Allen from this point in their respective careers and think it is the same. 

I'm looking forward to your talking points on starting Allen immediately just like the TT saying in Buffalo thread!

 

 

Hey breh.... I'm not the one who brought Luck into this conversation, Figster did, I was responding to his point, so please put your jump to conclusions mat back in your closet.

Edited May 17, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Figster]

15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Hey breh.... I'm not the one who brought Luck into this conversation, Figster did, I was responding to his point, so please put your jump to conclusions mat back in your closet.

true that, 

 

it wasn't really an Allen , Luck comparison to begin with, but I do belive Allen could have the same bad luck under similiar circumstances.

 

The point I was trying to bring home to you transplant is with a new coaching and system installation comes growing pains which the QB will have to endure.  When all the kinks are out and the Bills Oline shows an ability to protect properly the playing field would be better suited for a young QB prospect in my humble opinion

 

Let McCarron do what we brought him here to do...

 

On a side note I see ESPN has Buffalo ranked last in the NFL on confidence at the QB position. 

[ColoradoBills]

16 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Hey breh.... I'm not the one who brought Luck into this conversation, Figster did, I was responding to his point, so please put your jump to conclusions mat back in your closet.

 

Sorry for 'jumping".  It's all good.  This question about Allen starting or sitting (for any length) will get hashed over all the way to September.

We got some good talks coming up!

As for the comment about the TT thread, you really should think about a poll for this subject.

It would be interesting to get the whole boards opinion on this.

[transplantbillsfan]

Steve Wyche: "If Josh Allen is going to get playing time this year he's got to get it out of the gate"

http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/steve-wyche-if-josh-allen-going-get-playing-time-year-hes-got-get-it-out-gate

 

"McCarron is a young guy that really hasn't had a break. I think he'll compete like hell, he'll be a good leader in that locker room. I think the competitive edge he'll have will at least let him start the season. I think the Bills have a good enough team to win plenty of games with him as the starter. That could make the transition to Josh Allen tough, which is why I think if Josh Allen is going to get playing time this year, he's got to get it out of the gate."

[Lfod]

I'd rather Daboll have the offense established before starting a rookie QB in the first year of his OC tenure and the first year implementing his scheme. To big of an investment to throw him out there without a foundation. 

 

If he earns it during training camp then start him. Starting Josh Allen is not something you can be wrong on. You can't start him then bench him. That will be all she wrote. 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Lfod

[Fadingpain]

If Josh Allen has "it" or at least "some of it" (LOL) he should be starting ASAP on this team, including Week 1.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Fadingpain