Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[JimBob2232]

I think if we see the OL and WRs playing well (unlikely), but AJ is stinking up the joint, put him in.  But otherwise, wait until next year, get a top WR and a couple OL in the draft/FA.  Give the kid a fighting chance at succeeding.   This year is a building year IMO.  Don’t want him to lose confidence. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

Bold prediction: Peterman is the starter in week 1.

 

There is a better chance that they put Allen on the practice squad.

[LeGOATski]

13 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is a better chance that they put Allen on the practice squad.

There's a better chance that my **** stinks.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't particularly have high hopes for any of our Quarterbacks. I am talking myself into optimism around Allen's upside but I have re-watched some of him since the dratft and I still stick by what I thought pre-draft. 

Well then it looks like you are in for a miserable season.    

 

Forget who you wanted and how disappointed you may be and lets get behind who we have and hope they are good at what they do and lead us to a playoff WIN.    

 

[mannc]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't particularly have high hopes for any of our Quarterbacks. I am talking myself into optimism around Allen's upside but I have re-watched some of him since the dratft and I still stick by what I thought pre-draft. 

Cheer up.  It’s possible that you’re wrong.  Remember how much you loved the Shaq Lawson pick?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Cheer up.  It’s possible that you’re wrong.  Remember how much you loved the Shaq Lawson pick?

 

That is certainly true, and yep, I loved Shaq.  I am finding it difficult to be cheery though I confess.  I am strictly off discussing Allen's pros and cons until he gets on the field.  But I haven't managed to stop feeling the way I felt, because what I see is still what I see. 

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is certainly true, and yep, I loved Shaq.  I am finding it difficult to be cheery though I confess.  I am strictly off discussing Allen's pros and cons until he gets on the field.  But I haven't managed to stop feeling the way I felt, because what I see is still what I see. 

For the record I am still not down on the Shaq Lawson pick...and think he could take big steps forward this year.   He is already a excellent edge setter against the run he needs to get the rest of it going

[GunnerBill]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

For the record I am still not down on the Shaq Lawson pick...and think he could take big steps forward this year.   He is already a excellent edge setter against the run he needs to get the rest of it going

 

He is a very good run defender - and the stats with him and without him in 2017 make stark reading.  However, you don't spend the 19th pick of the draft on a guy to set the edge.  Shaq was also our sack leader last season despite only playing 10 games..... the problem is that he was the sack leader with 4 sacks....

[John from Riverside]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He is a very good run defender - and the stats with him and without him in 2017 make stark reading.  However, you don't spend the 19th pick of the draft on a guy to set the edge.  Shaq was also our sack leader last season despite only playing 10 games..... the problem is that he was the sack leader with 4 sacks....

He needs to step it up....I actually am not a big sack guy....I think sacks will come but I want QB pressures and hits

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He needs to step it up....I actually am not a big sack guy....I think sacks will come but I want QB pressures and hits

 

He was not exactly racking up the pressures or hits though either. Look I still like Shaq but he has played like a decent 3rd round edge setter and role player not a guy you spend a 1st on.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He needs to step it up....I actually am not a big sack guy....I think sacks will come but I want QB pressures and hits

TMI John, TMI.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:31 AM, Teddy KGB said:

 

Learn more on the field then the sidelines imo.    

 

Cam wasnt ready either some said then he throws up 850 plus yards in his first two games.  

 

I'm in complete agreement with Teddy KGB... awesome

 

Allen might sit for a little bit this season, but I fully expect he's the starter for most of the 2nd half of the season.

 

And I still think, depending on how much of the work with Palmer he's done is retained, he should and will just start immediately. The NFL has rules that are so unbelievably QB friendly now that it's almost pointless to have a guy sit on the bench for an extended period of time. The only reasons to sit a rookie QB, in my opinion are:

 

1) Mechanics need a complete teardown and rebuild. As I said, I'm hoping the offseason work sticks, but his mechanics even at Wyoming weren't awful, he just had occasional bad habits.

 

2) No familiarity with what an NFL QB does. That's not Allen... he's arguably the most familiar with things like learning an NFL playbook and huddling and calling audible at the line and taking snaps under center.

 

Mahomes sat last year because of both of those, but mainly #2 after functioning in an Air Raid offense. Also, Alex Smith.

 

AJ McCarron is not Alex Smith.

 

Kaepernick did the same... see all the above reasons for Mahomes.

 

Jake Locker sat for a year behind Hasslebeck and it didn't seem to do him any good.

 

Everyone likes to go back to Aaron Rodgers, but Rodgers wasn't sitting for long if at all, if Favre weren't there.

 

Going earlier than Rodgers is a new era of QBing in the NFL with different rules.

 

Allen might sit, but I think if he sits, the reason will primarily be some regression in form and mechanics from what he's worked on that needs tweaking. Otherwise, I think you'll find him under center in meaningful regular season action in the second half of the season, if not sooner.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/9/2018 at 3:14 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

NFL Total Access

Which quarterback should start for the Buffalo Bills? (3:33)

Discussion between Kurt Warner, Michael Robinson,  and Jim Mora, Jr.

 

Warner said at the end of this that all 3 of our QBs are "basically the same guy... they're not mobile guys."

[Ol Dirty B]

The whole thread is stupid. The Steve young point is ridicolous and just completely wrong.

 

Yes he did sit behind Montana for sometime, but his first season starting he went 14-2 and was all pro I believe. His first year in San Fran he threw 10 yrs and 0 interceptions. He had a bad year in Tampa his rookie year, but whatever the OP is going on about he had a bad first year after sitting behind Montana is not even remotely right.

 

If he earns it start him, but what I want is him to be developed. The OP just lobs out names of HOT QBs to make his point, even if i5 doesn't make his point should be banned from starting threads. 

[LeGOATski]

15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Warner said at the end of this that all 3 of our QBs are "basically the same guy... they're not mobile guys."

He also said that he could still play football and talked to at least one team about returning this year.

 

I think he's taken too many shots to the head.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:13 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You have two valid points there.

 

Now let's flip one of them around.  Right from his draft profile on NFL.com: "Footwork is sloppy and accuracy is inconsistent." " Doesn't anticipate receivers getting open, must see them in a window. Inconsistent accuracy due to poor footwork and falling away to avoid a big hit."  Cam has become more consistent, but his completion percentage is still lower than you like and he throws more INTs than you like (I know, I know, other factors go into both those things, but you see it on film). 

 

Maybe, just maybe, if he'd had a chance (and the personality) to sit and focus on his footwork and his ball placement for a while, he'd be a better QB today.

 

Do you think Cam obviously hurt his team by starting right away?

 

Do you think his 4,756 yards and 35 TDs obviously hurt his team?

 

Do you think Derek Anderson obviously would have led his team to more wins if he started instead of Cam?

 

Hindsight is 20/20 with everything, but I think the notion that Derek Anderson should have started in Cam Newton's rookie year is silly.

 

Moulding the perfect QB for every team by grooming him for 3 years like Aaron Rodgers or a year and a half like Tom Brady or a year plus like Phillip Rivers or for a bit like Eli Manning or a year like Patrick Mahomes or a year and a half like Colin kaepernick or a year like Jake Locker  is a wonderful concept, but we don't have an established pro bowl to HOF vet to hold the fort like is a Brett Favre, Drew Bledsoe, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Alex Smith, or Matt Hasslebeck.

 

We have the largely unknown AJ McCarron.

On 5/10/2018 at 6:05 AM, Domdab99 said:

 

This is a great article and exactly why I think Allen will be the starter. 

 

Me too.

Edited May 12, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/10/2018 at 11:03 AM, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, I still wouldn't want to.

 

Live NFL action is still a different beast than TC and preseason. Let Allen watch a few games and see the scenarios that play out. That should still be part of his OJT before he becomes the official starter.

 

I think we already heard Beane's answer to this question as I'm pretty sure he said (paraphrasing) "If he wins the job in TC, all the other players will see it. At that point, how can you not start him?"

 

I have no idea how to run an NFL team, but maybe they could make their intentions clear to the players somehow: "He won the job, but we're still going to let him watch a few real games first." Maybe they can pass that message down through the team leaders.

 

Then start him vs Green Bay.

 

You cite Beane saying "If he wins the job in TC, all the other players will see it. At that point, how can you not start him?"... are you saying you disagree with him or are you implying that statement is an argument for Allen sitting to start the season?

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You cite Beane saying "If he wins the job in TC, all the other players will see it. At that point, how can you not start him?"... are you saying you disagree with him or are you implying that statement is an argument for Allen sitting to start the season?

I interpret Beane's comment, as I remember it, that they will start Allen right away if he looks the best in camp.

 

I have no idea how to run an NFL team, but I wouldn't want Allen starting right away. Even if he looks ready, there's no rush to put him out there. Things are going to happen in the regular season that don't happen in camp and preseason. Let Allen see it all from an outsider's perspective, from the coach's perspective first. Teach him thoroughly.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:55 PM, Thurman#1 said:

He says, "Now, here I am in early May making the case that Allen likely gives this team the best chance to win." Maybe he does give the team the best chance to win. Maybe not, but maybe. Who cares? Or more specifically, whoever cares shouldn't. What is going to be important next season is maximizing Josh Allen's development. And that will likely best be done on the bench. What will not be important pretty much from January onwards is the difference between winning five games and seven games, for example. It just won't matter in the long run. This team isn't going to win a Super Bowl this year. They simply don't have the roster for it.

 

So once you know that the question should become, "What can we do to make that day, the day we win a Super Bowl, come sooner?" That should be by far the main priority. The article misses that. And that is huge.

 

The rest of what's in this post here is based on the bolded opinion.

 

You point to Brady, Brees and Rodgers as proof that sitting works, while neglecting the immediate and sustained success (in terms of player and, in most cases, team as well) of QBs who started right away like Big Ben, Ryan, Flacco, Wilson, Luck (all of whom went to the playoffs right away and 3 won Super Bowls before their rookie contract expired), Wentz (on pace to be league MVP 2nd year after flashing his rookie year), Carr (fantastic his 2nd year... both team and personal after flashing his rookie season), Newton (in the playoffs by his 3rd year and in the Super Bowl and League MVP by his 5th), etc.

 

Maybe sitting Allen is best, maybe not, but sitting 1st round rookie QBs just overwhelmingly hasn't been happening for more than a decade, and there's been a lot of both individual and team success coming off those decisions to start these guys right off the bat, so saying that Allen's development would best be done in a way top QBs haven't been developed for a decade plus is awfully presumptuous.

Edited May 12, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Fadingpain]

20 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Well then it looks like you are in for a miserable season.    

 

Forget who you wanted and how disappointed you may be and lets get behind who we have and hope they are good at what they do and lead us to a playoff WIN.    

 

 

If Allen starts the season but ***** the bed, your approach will last 3, maybe 4 games.

 

Then folks around here will be screaming for anyone and everyone to replace him.