NastyNateSoldiers Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Making the Case for Josh Allen to Start for Bills in Week 1 On the most recent BillsWire podcast, I threw out the idea of Josh Allen starting Week 1, rebutting the notion that Allen is a project prospect. Without having thrown a single pass in a Buffalo Bills’ uniform yet, the idea of starting Allen in Baltimore Sept. 9 is a risky proposition for a lot of people. However, let’s entertain the idea anyway because it might not seem as far-fetched as you think. Most believe free agent acquisition A.J. McCarron is the logical guy to open up the season as the starter. Conservative and realistic outsiders say Allen should sit—at least to start. Throwing the rookie signal caller on the field too early is an understandable fear for fans, considering coach Sean McDermott unconventionally benched Tyrod Taylor midway through the 2017 season in favor of rookie backup, Nathan Peterman. We all know how that went. Allen should start when he at least has #1- ability to read the defense and know how to attack said defense. #2- A great understanding of our offensive system to a pt where its 2nd nature to him. #3 - Has learned proper mechanics Allen at least has to have the learning part of the mental side of the game before he gets on the field. If not we take a risk of him falling behind in his development. These things take time to learn and fully digest mentally . I think by week 8 he should be ready to play and if our record is bad 2-6 or 3-5 he should get his chance. 2
transplantbillsfan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I suspect AJ is looking at this as an opportunity to show what he can really do. Do you suspect he has much of a chance showing he's much better than Allen, if at all?
Aussie Joe Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Do you suspect he has much of a chance showing he's much better than Allen, if at all? He might be in 2018...
mannc Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Fair enough. Then why do pundits think it does? Any ideas? As I said, the theory seems to have some superficial logical appeal—like saying officiating would be better if the refs were full-time employees of the NFL—but there’s little or no evidence to back it up. It’s lazy thinking, IMO. For example, EJ Manuel is often held up as an example of a guy who was crippled by starting too soon, but does anyone really think that’s why he wasn’t a successsful NFL qb? Hell, he played in four bowl games at FSU.
Doc Brown Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 6 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I believe Allen starting would be best for his own development, but I'm starting to think it will be week 5, not week 1. This would be my best guess. I'm usually one to say throw them into the fire as making mistakes is the best way to learn, but I also don't want this to happen... ...with games in Baltimore, Green Bay, and Minnesota along with a home game against Nathan Peterman's favorite team in the Chargers. I want to see how our offensive line performs as I'm much more willing to sacrifice McCarron or Peterman than Allen. Allen would have to perform well beyond expectations in the preseason/training camp in order to get the nod week 1.
#34fan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 7 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Making the Case for Josh Allen to Start for Bills in Week 1 On the most recent BillsWire podcast, I threw out the idea of Josh Allen starting Week 1, rebutting the notion that Allen is a project prospect. Without having thrown a single pass in a Buffalo Bills’ uniform yet, the idea of starting Allen in Baltimore Sept. 9 is a risky proposition for a lot of people. However, let’s entertain the idea anyway because it might not seem as far-fetched as you think. Most believe free agent acquisition A.J. McCarron is the logical guy to open up the season as the starter. Conservative and realistic outsiders say Allen should sit—at least to start. Throwing the rookie signal caller on the field too early is an understandable fear for fans, considering coach Sean McDermott unconventionally benched Tyrod Taylor midway through the 2017 season in favor of rookie backup, Nathan Peterman. We all know how that went. Good article and Podcast, 26 -Even if I do disagree with some of your takes. McBeane had no idea how bad a half of football could be until Peterman came out against the Chargers... Peterman had good mechanics, said all the right things, and danced like a motherf__er when it came to the whiteboard. Yet, when the curtains came up, -he fizzled. IMO there's a good case for making Josh Allen the starter TODAY. if someone really wanted to. Whatever Peterman, and McCarron are is dwarfed by the potential of Allen's upside. What I question is whether McBeane understands that they too will be under center with Josh on day one. Everything he does will be a reflection of them, and their beloved process. -All the more reason to make damn sure he's ready. 1
Thurman#1 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 8 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said: Everyone has an opinion on if he should start or sit. Unfortunately, none of us know what's TRULY in his best interest and would aide his development the best. For every case of "Yea well Rodgers sat and turned out well" I can throw a "Yea well Russell Wilson never sat". What it simply comes down to in my opinion is...what way does Josh Allen learn the best? Is he the type of learner that can watch others, ask questions and absorb it all in? Is he the kind of,guy that has to feel the moment, get his hands in the dough so to speak and figure it out that way? That said, my opinion is this. We are a run first team (no matter who is QB) that should have a solid defense. Whoever is the QB to start the season is going to be masked to some extent. If he is the kind of guy that can learn by doing, let him do it. Yeah, but Russell Wilson was considered NFL-ready from minute one. It's correct that guys like that don't need to sit. But that's the opposite of what Allen is considered. He's a guy who needs development. Yeah, he's done some of that with Jordan Palmer. But he's no Russell Wilson, who was considered mentally ready but questionable whether he'd ever be tall enough. That ain't Allen. And yeah, Bills fans have changed their mind on how ready he is. But deciding something is true because you want it to be true is a path to be wrong nearly every time. Find, say, three pre-draft evaluations that say he's NFL-ready. Pre-draft, back from when Bills Nation wasn't desperate to see him start as soon as possible. Four quick ones that suggest sitting: Mike Mayock, Peter King, Dane Brugler, Jordan Palmer said he'd benefit from a year to sit. And I could find more, easily. Allen's OC at Wyoming, Brent Vigen. "I think he needs to be put in a situation where they're willing to coach him," Vigen said. "Because there's still room for growth as far as his understanding and how to apply it. I think, obviously, a situation where he could sit and learn, that would be the best for him. But if he is forced into it, what are the pieces around you? What's the defense like? What pressures are put on you to score points? All those things come into play." http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23244329/josh-allen-wyoming-cowboys-ultimate-boom-bust-2018-nfl-draft-prospect 1
Thurman#1 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Allen is not raw. He's ready to play. Yeah, he's going to have some rocky moments and he needs to work on some things...but there is no way Allen will not start the majority of the games this season. Unless he's a bust and he doesn't win the job. Think of it this way: how would you feel about Josh Allen, our No. 1 pick who we traded up for, if he can't beat out AJ Freakin' McCarron and Nate "5 picks in a half" Peterman for the starting job in camp? By camp of, say, his third year? I would feel absolutely terrible. In his first camp? Absolutely fine. No problem at all. It's what to expect. In fact, it's what you expected and rabidly told us for months was true, right? Until he was drafted by Buffalo and so the rose-colored glasses came out in like a day and a half. And using the word bust in a player's first year is flat-out ridiculous. By that standard, Brees is a bust.
NastyNateSoldiers Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time. Seriously... it's a new NFL.. rookie QBs just generally don't sit unless they're extremely raw... and Allen isn't raw in the way Mahomes was, who never really NFL experience playing in an Air Raid offense in College. What exactly about him is raw? He's raw in the sense of playing against NFL speed and defensive systems that he's never seen before at Wyoming. It's one thing to be great on the whiteboard and another to be great when the real bullets start flying. This is where the studying film and knowing what defenses are doing meets your natural processing and instincts. If Allen can read and react well he should succeed.
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, but Russell Wilson was considered NFL-ready from minute one. It's correct that guys like that don't need to sit. But that's the opposite of what Allen is considered. He's a guy who needs development. Yeah, he's done some of that with Jordan Palmer. But he's no Russell Wilson, who was considered mentally ready but questionable whether he'd ever be tall enough. That ain't Allen. And yeah, Bills fans have changed their mind on how ready he is. But deciding something is true because you want it to be true is a path to be wrong nearly every time. Find, say, three pre-draft evaluations that say he's NFL-ready. Pre-draft, back from when Bills Nation wasn't desperate to see him start as soon as possible. Four quick ones that suggest sitting: Mike Mayock, Peter King, Dane Brugler, Jordan Palmer said he'd benefit from a year to sit. And I could find more, easily. Allen's OC at Wyoming, Brent Vigen. "I think he needs to be put in a situation where they're willing to coach him," Vigen said. "Because there's still room for growth as far as his understanding and how to apply it. I think, obviously, a situation where he could sit and learn, that would be the best for him. But if he is forced into it, what are the pieces around you? What's the defense like? What pressures are put on you to score points? All those things come into play." http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23244329/josh-allen-wyoming-cowboys-ultimate-boom-bust-2018-nfl-draft-prospect Same thing was said by much of the same people about Wentz. Truth is no one will really know anything until the pads come on. That's where we see where he is.
Thurman#1 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said: Same thing was said by much of the same people about Wentz. Truth is no one will really know anything until the pads come on. That's where we see where he is. You're right that we can't be sure in advance. But Gruden said Wentz was the most NFL-ready guy in years. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/one-nfl-analyst-thinks-carson-wentz-is-the-most-nfl-ready-qb-in-years/ Plenty of people disagreed at the time but it was a bit more of the "He might not be ready," type of thing than the "the team that drafts him will need to give him time to develop" that had been the consensus on Allen ... until Bills fans found he was on our team and got excited.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So serious question: If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more? What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs? I've gone over it before, he's had experience reading a defense pre-snap and adjusting the protections based on alignments; he's had run-run checks, run-pass checks, and pass-run checks based on alignment or numbers; he's determined his read progressions at the line based on matchups; and he's taken many snaps from under center and isn't unfamiliar with turning his back to the D. Since claiming that this was what I observed watching him on tape and listening to him in interviews, his college OC has come out and confirmed pretty much all of that. His footwork got sloppy at times when he was trying to do too much under fire and making hero plays. That's fine, he can reign that in. He'll need actual game experience to learn what he can and cannot get away with at this level though. What is it exactly that you feel he needs to learn before he can play in an NFL game?
Soda Popinski Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 I don't know either way what's the right way to develop a QB, sitting the bench worked for Aaron Rodgers, while Carson Wentz played every game in 2016 so I can't say either way what the correct formula is, I think it is more about drafting the right QB who will work regardless of the situation, if he has to play early he makes it work, if he has to sit he makes it work. Hopefully Allen doesn't let circumstance dictate his career.
nucci Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 How about wait until coaches think he's ready? Rams sat Goff until they thought he was ready and took crap for it but it seems to have worked out well so far
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 1 minute ago, nucci said: How about wait until coaches think he's ready? Rams sat Goff until they thought he was ready and took crap for it but it seems to have worked out well so far They actually played him well before he was ready in 2016 in the final seven games and it was not pretty. 1
nucci Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: They actually played him well before he was ready in 2016 in the final seven games and it was not pretty. Right, forgot about that. Sorry 1
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, Mr. WEO said: It's the NFL and he's a top 10 QB pick. He starts. Trubisky and Mahomes didn't.
Mr. WEO Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Trubisky and Mahomes didn't. Trubisky played from week 5 on--12 games. Mahomes was drafted behind a franchise QB--rare for a top 10. The rest start almost always because they were drafted to. Edited May 8, 2018 by Mr. WEO
26CornerBlitz Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Trubisky played from week 5 on--12 games. Mahomes was drafted behind a franchise QB--rare for a top 10. The rest start almost always because they were drafted to. Jared Goff didn't and neither will Mayfield.
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