Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I believe Allen starting would be best for his own development, but I'm starting to think it will be week 5, not week 1. So serious question: If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more? What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs? 1
artmalibu Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 What’s wrong with him having to earn the start. I don’t get the idea of starting a guy just because he was a high draft pick. The only conversation I want to hear is open competition. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 3 hours ago, jethro_tull said: This could easily go the way of the Chicago Bears season last year where they signed "veteran" QB Mike Glennon to be the interim starter until Mitch Trubisky was ready. Trubisky had limited college experience (31 games) slightly more than Allen (27 games). Glennon was awful (not all his fault) and was booted in favor of Trubisky week 4. In other words, AJ McCarron could easily wind up making the case for Allen to start. I think you nailed it, and this is exactly what I'm concerned about. If Allen makes the case for Allen to start - pulls a Russ Wilson or a Dak Prescott, nails the playbook, knows his progressions, takes control, looks sharp - that's one thing. But if Allen looks exactly as he has been advertised - a guy who shows amazing flashes, but clearly has gaps in his game and needs to work on his touch, refine his footwork, and figure out the NFL game - then if McCarron stinks up the place behind a crappy OL and WR who couldn't separate if they were cream and the DB were skimmed milk, that is exactly NOT the right case for Allen to start. 1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said: I sure hope Allen doesn't throw 5 interceptions his first NFL game or he's going to be cut by the fans the next day.... Fortunately, the fans don't have fate control over the roster. 1
billspro Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So serious question: If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more? What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs? I would be fine following the same path as Big Ben if he is showing well in camp. I think Allen would be very successful running an offense with around 20 pass attempts a game and heavy play action. He was a great play action passer in college. We could then slowly increase his pass attempts every year until he is ready to handle all the complexities of NFL defences.
mannc Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So serious question: If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more? What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs? I really don’t think there’s any evidence that playing a rookie too early can ruin him. It’s the kind of thing people say a lot, and it seems to make some superficial sense, but there’s really no way to prove (or disprove) it. He should start when he’s the Bills’ best QB. Period. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, mannc said: I really don’t think there’s any evidence that playing a rookie too early can ruin him. It’s the kind of thing people say a lot, and it seems to make some superficial sense, but there’s really no way to prove (or disprove) it. He should start when he’s the Bills’ best QB. Period. Fair enough. Then why do pundits think it does? Any ideas?
John from Riverside Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 My big thing is really green QBs make mistakes with the ball....I dont want Allen turning into a interception machine. I know TT wouldnt pull the trigger...but there is also something to be said about ball security and winning especially if your D and running game are strong....which I think will be the case this upcoming year.
Saxum Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 Why not start? When rookie (or even QBs who have not played in NFL in later years) QBs: Have games where they throw the ball and shouldn't causing interceptions the criticism from coaches can become self-defeating - the QBs not take chances they should. Throwing interceptions happen and the especially happen when you are behind in game but if thrown on 3rd down on opponents side of field when trying to get back into game they are not that bad Have games where they have not adjusted to NFL speed yet and get hit they start seeing shadows causing them to get rid of ball early or doing dump downs when they should still be trying to making plays to extend down. When dealing with teams still being formulated due to new coaches or players a QB can learn to not trust his line or decisions.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Limeaid said: Why not start? When rookie (or even QBs who have not played in NFL in later years) QBs: Have games where they throw the ball and shouldn't causing interceptions the criticism from coaches can become self-defeating - the QBs not take chances they should. Throwing interceptions happen and the especially happen when you are behind in game but if thrown on 3rd down on opponents side of field when trying to get back into game they are not that bad Have games where they have not adjusted to NFL speed yet and get hit they start seeing shadows causing them to get rid of ball early or doing dump downs when they should still be trying to making plays to extend down. When dealing with teams still being formulated due to new coaches or players a QB can learn to not trust his line or decisions. Because throwing in a player who isn't ready is a recipe for disaster. Then again, maybe that's what some folks want. Edited May 8, 2018 by PromoTheRobot 1
Saxum Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Because throwing a player who isn't ready is a recipe for disaster. Then again, maybe that's what some want. Some of the tankers do. I'd be more comfortable if the tanker was a lady with nice picture or showing themselves riding in one when they were in service.
transplantbillsfan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 I thought about starting a thread predicting Allen would and maybe even should start immediately, but I think I'd jinx him In truth, though, despite the fact that he's currently 3rd on the depth chart, I kinda think Beane wants/expects him to win this job out the gate. I can't get the article anymore, but in that Buffalo News article about the draft process, I thought this comment was telling: "I think what's come with social media and all the draft coverage is that all the stats get plastered out there,” he said. “I said it on the radio show the other day ...one of the guys said something about Josh Allen being raw. I went into a thing like, raw came from a national pundit. They labeled these guys as different things. Some of them I agreed with, some of them I did not.” That sure sounds like Beane doesn't believe Allen is raw. Dude is 6'5, 240 lbs, all the arm strength in the world, has more experience in a pro style offense than the other top QBs, is very smart, and quick to process things. The biggest question, I think, will be how much of the improvements on his mechanics and footwork from his work with Palmer has truly stuck. He has the size and athleticism where I don't think he's going to get shell shocked after getting killed in his rookie year. If he earns the job, let him start right away. Does signing AJ McCarron as like the last real viable fringe starting QB on the 3rd day of Free Agency really make people think McBeane's plan A all along has been to have a vet QB start this year??? Do you think AJ McCarron is a shoe-in or even a favorite to beat an uber talented rookie who's likely really going to WOW his coaches over the Summer with at least his physical ability, if not also his mental processing (based on reports of how he is at the whiteboard)??? If your answers to both of those questions are "No," which I think they are, then Allen's probably the favorite to win this job right out the gate.
Domdab99 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 Allen is not raw. He's ready to play. Yeah, he's going to have some rocky moments and he needs to work on some things...but there is no way Allen will not start the majority of the games this season. Unless he's a bust and he doesn't win the job. Think of it this way: how would you feel about Josh Allen, our No. 1 pick who we traded up for, if he can't beat out AJ Freakin' McCarron and Nate "5 picks in a half" Peterman for the starting job in camp?
Aussie Joe Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Allen is not raw. He's ready to play. Yeah, he's going to have some rocky moments and he needs to work on some things...but there is no way Allen will not start the majority of the games this season. Unless he's a bust and he doesn't win the job. Think of it this way: how would you feel about Josh Allen, our No. 1 pick who we traded up for, if he can't beat out AJ Freakin' McCarron and Nate "5 picks in a half" Peterman for the starting job in camp? Do you feel the same way about Baker and Tyrod out of interest?
Domdab99 Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Do you feel the same way about Baker and Tyrod out of interest? That's an interesting battle. Tyrod alsways looks great in camp and practice...and he's a seasoned pro. Unless Baker comes out and lights it up right from the start, I can see Tyrod starting the season in Cleveland. But once Cleveland realizes Tyrod can't lead a team back from a deficit, Mayfield will get his shot. But McCarron and Peterman are not in Tyrod's league; he is a much better QB than either of them. So I don't think the situations are the same.
Aussie Joe Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: That's an interesting battle. Tyrod alsways looks great in camp and practice...and he's a seasoned pro. Unless Baker comes out and lights it up right from the start, I can see Tyrod starting the season in Cleveland. But once Cleveland realizes Tyrod can't lead a team back from a deficit, Mayfield will get his shot. But McCarron and Peterman are not in Tyrod's league; he is a much better QB than either of them. So I don't think the situations are the same. Cheers... I'm prepared to keep an open mind about McCarron being worse than Tyrod at this stage... I think its a big ask for Allen to beat out AJ in camp, but hopefully if he does it means he has practiced well and not that AJ is terrible...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Limeaid said: Very dislike websites which need to break each thought on it to a different page to get more ads with automatic videos starting (it is interesting that browsers used to have controls to prevent videos automatically or videos entirely but those are gone now). If I am not going to click on ad on first page and I am not going to click on ads on subsequent pages. Regarding starting him I think they should prepare packages for Allen to play in and have him play a series when the coaching staff thinks it is a good time based on field position, score, defense, etc but NOT start him game 1. Make sure it is clear it is not a benching of AJ McCarron but a way to get most out of team. But at no time should they announce this or show such plays during open practices. Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time. 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Because AJ McCarron isn't very good. The prosecution rests m'Lord. Seriously... it's a new NFL.. rookie QBs just generally don't sit unless they're extremely raw... and Allen isn't raw in the way Mahomes was, who never really NFL experience playing in an Air Raid offense in College. 5 hours ago, Buffalo86 said: If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate. Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that. As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman. What exactly about him is raw?
reddogblitz Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time. I suspect AJ is looking at this as an opportunity to show what he can really do.
Fadingpain Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Buffalo86 said: If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate. Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that. As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman. That's an interesting angle I honestly hadn't considered. I assume Peterman figures into no plans whatsoever and is a sure #3. Unless Allen has a very strong camp and really impresses, I think McCarron will start the season. I also think McCarron will be terrible, leading to a QB switch at some point into the season, unless Allen looks horrid during the summer.
transplantbillsfan Posted May 8, 2018 Posted May 8, 2018 5 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Partially that, avoid the road games at Minny & GB, but also I think at home vs. Tennessee is probably the easiest place to begin on the schedule That's a game I'm considering being back in WNY for... That'd be awesome ...way more awesome than the Thad Lewis introduction to the NFL in 2013... although that game actually went to OT.
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