Manther Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 5 hours ago, NewEraBills said: I know at least three Giants fans and they are not disappointed at all. I would be if I were them. But, it could pay off! I just don’t see the value in a RB at #2. Two main reasons... 1. When else can the New York Football Giants get a QB that high in the draft. 2. The cap investment vs other positions that high in the draft. I think most of the time a top 5 pick should be a QB, LT, DE and maybe a MLB (3 down that can get to the QB). I don’t like CB there either like the Browns did. But, Barkley may be the exception?!
Jamie Mueller Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 6 hours ago, dave mcbride said: If so, they could have radically improved their o-line via a trade with the Bills and gotten, say, Sony Michel (who I think is really good even though he might not last more than 5 years). Is Barkley really that good? Will he even be as good as Kamara or Hunt were last season? I doubt it, but we shall see. My one caveat relates to Davis Webb. If they really like him, then not drafting a QB is arguably OK. But I've never heard anyone in the new regime talk him up. I hear that they really like Webb.
dave mcbride Posted April 28, 2018 Author Posted April 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jamie Mueller said: I hear that they really like Webb. I liked Webb!
ghostwriter Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) The Giants look awfully dumb. When again if ever will they be sitting at #2 in a QB rich draft? It may take 30 years for them to get another opportunity like this. Sorry, but the only time you take a RB that high is if there are no good QBs. If Geno Smith and EJ Manuel are your options you take the RB 10/10. The Giants and Browns botched the top of the draft so bad that we got Allen and Edmunds, talk about bizarre! Edited April 28, 2018 by NewDayBills
SoTier Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 6 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The only logical explanation for taking a RB over a QB in that situation -- i.e., getting the #2 pick in a great QB draft while currently relying on an aging, average QB -- is if they really believe in Davis Webb. They may. I thought he was good in college. But I've never gotten the sense that the Giants are big believers in him. If they aren't, what they did makes zero sense from a long-term franchise-building perspective. Sam Darnold is good, and he was right there for them. If I were Gettleman, I'd have taken the best player in the draft over QBs who all had big question marks about them, too. Give Eli some help in the form of protection, a running game, and a defense, and he's about as clutch as they come as his two SB victories over the Pats demonstrates. The Giants have been busily collecting the pieces to surround Eli all off-season, and Saquan is another one -- probably a big piece.
Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 14 hours ago, bobobonators said: What does drafting a QB do for the Giants now? Nothing. You either move on from Eli NOW or you continue to add pieces around him. The Giants chose the latter. It's not about now. It's their best opportunity for the future. What does drafting Barkely do for them now> You'll see the it won't do much. Maybe a few more wins (can't be worse than last year no matter who they drafted).
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 14 hours ago, bobobonators said: They still have Eli at QB. They can draft a QB when Eli retires. Whats so hard to understand about that? Barkley is a generational talent at RB. Yeah, and running game + Eli results in rings
BillsFan17 Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 Apparently Gettleman didn't even listen to offers for the second overall.
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 14 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The only logical explanation for taking a RB over a QB in that situation -- i.e., getting the #2 pick in a great QB draft while currently relying on an aging, average QB -- is if they really believe in Davis Webb. They may. I thought he was good in college. But I've never gotten the sense that the Giants are big believers in him. If they aren't, what they did makes zero sense from a long-term franchise-building perspective. Sam Darnold is good, and he was right there for them. I liked Davis Webb in college, I think in time he could be a Nick Foles type talent. Webb is still very raw, I think he will need another year of film study and watching from the bench before he is ready. 1
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Yeah, and running game + Eli results in rings Don’t forget an amazing defense, and miraculous playoff runs. Never underestimate how valuable Tom Coughlin was as a coach either. Pat Shurmur is miles away from being half the coach Coughlin was. Eli needs a lot of help to win, and the addition of Barkley certainly qualifies. I just think that too much needs align in the perfect manner for Eli to win titles. The Giants should be worried about life after Eli because it’s coming soon. There is too much talent in the NFC to view the Giants as a legitimate contender imo.
Coach Tuesday Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 https://twitter.com/DAonCBS/status/989697845791019008 Gettleman didn't even listen to offers for the #2 pick. He's Buddy Nix, I'm telling you. What a moron. If Reese were still the G.M., we'd be welcoming Sam Darnold to Buffalo this weekend.
Gigs Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 15 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: Snipped from an ESPN article: "But Barkley instantly becomes among the highest-paid players at his position and needs to perform at a Pro Bowl-level immediately to be worth the investment. This also happens to be an extremely deep position in this year’s draft; the Giants could have taken a quality running back in the second or third round" He's making as much as shady. RB is is less valuable than a elite pass rusher. If gettleman is so happy with Stewart why draft Barkley? They have over 11.5 million committed to Barkley and Stewart now this year. Chubb would have been a home run for them, replacing jpp and immediately turning their pass rush into something dangerous. "QB" and "stopping the QB" are the two most important things in the NFL. Great player, but not at #2 with QBs and Chubb available. My dude, in a few years we will see monster contracts for backups because the league revenues are EXPLODING. Trust me when I tell you sooner than later that contract for Barkley will be a massive steal. Even if drafted #1. Oh, and he will be playing at all-pro level soon enough. This draft was full of top talent, and without ok QBs dominating the top of the draft they all could’ve been #1. Chubb, Barkley and Edmunds, to name a few, are the freaks unseen. Just wait until they’re on the field.
Golden*Wheels Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 My Giants fan buddy was ecstatic when they drafted Saquon. And he was who he wanted all along. He's a happy fella so far.
SouthNYfan Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gigs said: My dude, in a few years we will see monster contracts for backups because the league revenues are EXPLODING. Trust me when I tell you sooner than later that contract for Barkley will be a massive steal. Even if drafted #1. Oh, and he will be playing at all-pro level soon enough. This draft was full of top talent, and without ok QBs dominating the top of the draft they all could’ve been #1. Chubb, Barkley and Edmunds, to name a few, are the freaks unseen. Just wait until they’re on the field. What are you talking about? You can't say it will be a massive steal in a few years because the contract is 4 with a 5th option Running backs aren't suddenly going to be making $15mil in 3 years.
NewEraBills Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Manther said: I would be if I were them. But, it could pay off! I just don’t see the value in a RB at #2. Two main reasons... 1. When else can the New York Football Giants get a QB that high in the draft. 2. The cap investment vs other positions that high in the draft. I think most of the time a top 5 pick should be a QB, LT, DE and maybe a MLB (3 down that can get to the QB). I don’t like CB there either like the Browns did. But, Barkley may be the exception?! Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel, but I just don't see why any Giants fan would be sad or angry. Your reasons to me are not good reasons for them to be sad given their situation. 1. They still have Eli for two additional years 2. They don't know what they have in Davis Webb 3. The biggest issues they've had up front and in the backfield is what has been keeping their offense back and it got addressed with a top LG prospect to solidify the left side and the best playmaker in the draft. I just don't look at positional value except for at QB. I look at it in terms of who are the best playmakers. The Giants took the best offensive playmaker and improved their team immediately. I don't care what position that playmaker plays. Just give me the best one if that's what I need. They did exactly that. Their message is we'll build around Eli for another run. We have time to see what we have with Webb, so why take a QB early. When you have a guy take developmental guys at QB. Edited April 28, 2018 by NewEraBills
Luka Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 Future HOF QB, arguably the best receiver in the game and a potential star RB. Yea, must suck to be a Giants fan.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 16 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The only logical explanation for taking a RB over a QB in that situation -- i.e., getting the #2 pick in a great QB draft while currently relying on an aging, average QB -- is if they really believe in Davis Webb. They may. I thought he was good in college. But I've never gotten the sense that the Giants are big believers in him. If they aren't, what they did makes zero sense from a long-term franchise-building perspective. Sam Darnold is good, and he was right there for them. I think you've just put your finger on one of the paradoxes of modern NFL management. Coaches and GMs know very well that if they don't get the franchise turned around and at least winning/contending for playoffs in 3 years, they're toast. "Long-term franchise-building" only makes sense for them, once they HAVE turned he team around and gotten it winning. So for a GM like Gettleman, if he thinks he has a winning, capable NFL QB on the roster in Eli, he's not thinking about the long term. He's thinking "what is my best strategy to turn the team around and get it back on the winning track within 2 years?" And the blueprint for that is pretty straightforward: fix the lines on both sides of the ball, and develop a top running game. Worked for the Jags. Worked for the Vikes (RB by committee). Gettleman placing his bets it will work for the G-men. Boom. Top RB in the 1st. A top guard in the 2nd. Beef up the front 7 in the 3rd. From the perspective of a new GM with a 3-year expiry facing him, makes sense even if he thinks Davis Webb is really the tooth fairy (and he doesn't believe)
mannc Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 16 hours ago, GG said: Would anyone trade 3 first round picks for Barkley? No one in their right mind, and that’s exactly the point. It doesn’t matter whether Barkley is good or even great. This was a monumentally stupid pick.
Thurman#1 Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 17 hours ago, dave mcbride said: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/04/27/giants-gm-analytics-saying-not-to-draft-a-running-back-are-nonsense-a-crock/ '“You know what I say about that. It is a crock. At the end of the day, a great player is a great player. He is a touchdown maker. He is a threat to take it to the house every time he gets his hands on the ball,” Gettleman said. “I think a lot of that stuff is nonsense. I think it is someone who had decided to get into the analytics of it and went through whatever. Jonathan Stewart is in his 10th year and he has not lost anything. I don’t believe in that. I don’t care who you take, they can all get hurt.”' His test case, Jonathan Stewart (selected 13th overall) is ... decidedly an average JAG: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StewJo00.htm I can't believe the Giants didn't go QB. Could definitely work out as you expect. Me, I would have taken a QB, but I don't think it was a dumb play at all. They think they have a chance to win a Super Bowl with Eli in his waning years, and that the way to do that is by putting a run game beside him. I expect Eli to play a lot better. Now if they never get very good, this will have been a huge missed opportunity. Somehow, though, I expect good things. Hernandez at G again looks to do good things for this offence and the two DL picks are right in the traditional Giants wheelhouse. They're doing a fine job, IMO.
Wayne Cubed Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: https://twitter.com/DAonCBS/status/989697845791019008 Gettleman didn't even listen to offers for the #2 pick. He's Buddy Nix, I'm telling you. What a moron. If Reese were still the G.M., we'd be welcoming Sam Darnold to Buffalo this weekend. Old school football guy. Also drafted McCaffrey in the top 10. The value for money for drafting a RB that high just isn’t there. He’s now in the top 5 of paid RBs in the league. Whereas a QB(and a lot of other positions) on a rookie contract gets them cheap production while you build, a running back drafted high doesn’t do that. It’s the exact opposite. And look where the best RBs last year were drafted. Would it have made more sense for the Jags to draft Watson/Mahomes and pick up someone like Kamara?
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