eball Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: You're forgetting...... Cleveland got Tyrod Taylor Cincy got Cordy Glenn, Billy Price Andrew Brown. Tampa's got Vita Vea and MJ Stewart Tenessee got Rashaan Evans Oakland got Brandon Parker KC also got Derrick Nnadi Baltimore got Lamar Jackson, Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews, Kenny Young, Jaleel Scott Philly got Dallas Goedert, Avonte Maddox Indy got Kemoko Turay. Jordon Wilkins We got also Ray Ray McCloud I think that's all of it but if not someone else can try lol I don't want to speak for the OP but I believe the point of his thread was the players the Bills and Chefs wound up with as a result. I mean, it's not like we're going to look back at the KC/Buffalo trade and say "Baltimore won that trade" are we? 1
The_Dude Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 On 4/27/2018 at 4:20 PM, Zerovotlz said: Chiefs Get : QB Pat Mahomes (R1 pick 10, 2017) Bills Get: CB Tre White (R1 pick 27, 2017) Pick 91 (R3 pick 91, 2017) packaged with other picks for trade up to 37. Rams used pick on S John Johnson. Bills go to (R2 pick 37, 2017) and select WR Zay Jones. Pick 21 (R1 pick 21, 2018) packaged with other picks for trade up to 16. Ravens traded out with Titans who used the pick on LB Rashaan Evans. Bills go to (R1 pick 16, 2018) and select LB Tremaine Edmunds. Esentially, after it was all said and done, it was Mahomes for Tre White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Thank you. Tre so far is great. Zay sucks. Tremaine looks promising. But let’s give it time to play out. I like Mahomes. 1
3rdand12 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, The_Dude said: Tre so far is great. Zay sucks. Tremaine looks promising. But let’s give it time to play out. I like Mahomes. succinct . Not quite Haiku but worthy of notice. i do disagree with nothing you have said. 3
billspro Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, BigDingus said: That's the laziest, worst, most inaccurate comparison I've ever seen. It's clear you didn't watch anything on either QB while they were in college. Mahomes is far more athletic, more accurate, can read a defense, played against better competition, put up great numbers regardless of who he played against, and although he was in a spread, so was every other Texas Tech QB the last 20 years, yet none of them got drafted before the 5th round if at all. Graham Harrell put up better numbers than him, yet he was a practice squad guy for a couple years, then out of the league. Kliff Kingsbury, same thing. There have been so many, yet Mahomes gets drafted round 1 when nobody else was even considered worthy of a roster spot? Maybe you should recheck your analysis to understand why (that means watching the games). Also, Mahomes carried those teams with next to no help on either side of the ball. They had to throw all over the place since TT's defense was ranked 128 of 128 in 2016...so dead last. Mahomes didn't have big play makers like Crabtree to lob the ball to, and had the ability to make his own changes on the field. Along with his 41 passing TD's his final year, he had 12 rushing, all while playing through injuries just to keep competing. To put it in perspective, Mahomes had the same amount of TD's in one year as Allen had in his entire career at Wyoming. Actually his analysis was much better than yours. Mahomes does have worse footwork and arm talent when compared to Allen, I don't even think that is debatable. Mahomes is more athletic.....wrong, Allen is far more atheltic and it is not even close Mahomes is more accurate.... wrong again. Both had perceived accuracy issues on tape in the general public but both QBs are pretty accurate. Mahomes showed more inaccuracy than Allen on tape, especially at the intermediate and deep level. Mahomes played better competition...... doesn't matter, Mahomes had huge windows to throw into and his offence was much more talented than the defenses he played against. Allens offense was far less talented than the defenses he played against. Mahomes can read a defense...... wrong again, he played in the Air Raid and it is hard to even find an example of him reading a defense. Allen did this all of the time. Mahomes carried the team..... wrong again, his WRs and RBs were stacked, numerous players on that roster had NFL talent. Coutee for example. It's clear you don't know how to evaluate QBs. It would be hard to find any true evaluator on a reputable site that had Mahomes rated higher than Allen. 3 1 1
Dr. Who Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, billspro said: Actually his analysis was much better than yours. Mahomes does have worse footwork and arm talent when compared to Allen, I don't even think that is debatable. Mahomes is more athletic.....wrong, Allen is far more atheltic and it is not even close Mahomes is more accurate.... wrong again. Both had perceived accuracy issues on tape in the general public but both QBs are pretty accurate. Mahomes showed more inaccuracy than Allen on tape, especially at the intermediate and deep level. Mahomes played better competition...... doesn't matter, Mahomes had huge windows to throw into and his offence was much more talented than the defenses he played against. Allens offense was far less talented than the defenses he played against. Mahomes can read a defense...... wrong again, he played in the Air Raid and it is hard to even find an example of him reading a defense. Allen did this all of the time. Mahomes carried the team..... wrong again, his WRs and RBs were stacked, numerous players on that roster had NFL talent. Coutee for example. It's clear you don't know how to evaluate QBs. It would be hard to find any true evaluator on a reputable site that had Mahomes rated higher than Allen. I pushed for drafting Mahomes last year. I am thrilled we passed on him, because Allen is the better prospect with fewer flaws to overcome. 2 1
GunnerBill Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, billspro said: Actually his analysis was much better than yours. Mahomes does have worse footwork and arm talent when compared to Allen, I don't even think that is debatable. Mahomes is more athletic.....wrong, Allen is far more atheltic and it is not even close Mahomes is more accurate.... wrong again. Both had perceived accuracy issues on tape in the general public but both QBs are pretty accurate. Mahomes showed more inaccuracy than Allen on tape, especially at the intermediate and deep level. Mahomes played better competition...... doesn't matter, Mahomes had huge windows to throw into and his offence was much more talented than the defenses he played against. Allens offense was far less talented than the defenses he played against. Mahomes can read a defense...... wrong again, he played in the Air Raid and it is hard to even find an example of him reading a defense. Allen did this all of the time. Mahomes carried the team..... wrong again, his WRs and RBs were stacked, numerous players on that roster had NFL talent. Coutee for example. It's clear you don't know how to evaluate QBs. It would be hard to find any true evaluator on a reputable site that had Mahomes rated higher than Allen. I think Mahomes was more accurate between the 20s. Where Mahomes inaccuracy was apparent on the tape to me was redzone when those big wide open windows narrowed. Mahomes footwork was definitely worse. It was the worst footwork I have ever looked at in a serious NFL prospect. There was no consistency to where his back foot landed at all. There was some sign of improvement in that week 17 game last year but let's see if that holds up for a full season. Personally I did actually have Mahomes graded slightly higher but I had 3rds on them both. I thought they both had some issues that made them significant risks to succeed at the next level. 1
The Now Moment Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think Mahomes was more accurate between the 20s. Where Mahomes inaccuracy was apparent on the tape to me was redzone when those big wide open windows narrowed. Mahomes footwork was definitely worse. It was the worst footwork I have ever looked at in a serious NFL prospect. There was no consistency to where his back foot landed at all. There was some sign of improvement in that week 17 game last year but let's see if that holds up for a full season. Personally I did actually have Mahomes graded slightly higher but I had 3rds on them both. I thought they both had some issues that made them significant risks to succeed at the next level. They were always going to be picked in the first round. I don't know where your 3rd round grade comes from? Players with their level of arm talent and mobility are considered projects but they are still 1st round projects. Rudolph went in the third round because he was still considered a project but didn't have the arm talent or mobility that either Allen or Mahomes have. I think you undervalue the position itself with your grading. Teams are willing to take the risk to see if they can coach them up to that very high ceiling at the most important position in the game. 1
Logic Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 I think it's really funny that the OP says the "book is closed" on this trade before Mahomes or Edmunds have played one full season. An obvious troll attempt, right? He can't actually be serious with that nonsense? 1
Augie Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Logic said: I think it's really funny that the OP says the "book is closed" on this trade before Mahomes or Edmunds have played one full season. An obvious troll attempt, right? He can't actually be serious with that nonsense? To be fair, a book IS closed before you open it to read the first page, right? ?
YoloinOhio Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Mahomes trade? The Bills didn’t trade Mahomes. They traded the pick and weren’t taking a QB early last year. Based on knowledge of their board, they would have taken Lattimore, not Mahomes. McD just got there and the whole FO was getting fired the next day. They were always taking one this year. Did Tampa trade Josh Allen? Edited May 25, 2018 by YoloinOhio
Rubes Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 For the life of me, I can't understand why people are misunderstanding the OP so much. It's not like the OP was saying "the book is closed" as in "we now know everything we need to know to pass judgment on it". The OP was just saying that all of the moves that were made as a result of the trade that sent Mahomes to KC are now completed, so we will know the parameters of the trade in order to pass judgment on whether or not it was a good trade for either team once we know how those players pan out. This is not rocket surgery, folks. 2
3rdand12 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Mahomes trade? The Bills didn’t trade Mahomes. They traded the pick and weren’t talking a QB early last year. McD just got there and the whole FO was getting fired the next day. Did Tampa trade Josh Allen? Bills weren't going to be drafting a QB on what was left of Whaley's scout team and Sean McDermott's defensive acumen were they ? and why they traded away and then garnered 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds ! awesome right there. and then still traded up last year. Who was it they picked again? it's fun to discuss hypotheticals. But Mahomes will have a career in the NfL, and we sure hope Bills FO made the disciplined decisions for long term (3 years lol ) success with how they managed last two drafts 9 minutes ago, Rubes said: For the life of me, I can't understand why people are misunderstanding the OP so much. It's not like the OP was saying "the book is closed" as in "we now know everything we need to know to pass judgment on it". The OP was just saying that all of the moves that were made as a result of the trade that sent Mahomes to KC are now completed, so we will know the parameters of the trade in order to pass judgment on whether or not it was a good trade for either team once we know how those players pan out. This is not rocket surgery, folks. well it is certainly similar in multifaceted ways to rocket surgery . surprised that you of all folks , have not noticed . ☺️ Edited May 25, 2018 by 3rdand12 1
K-9 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, The Jokeman said: You're forgetting...... Cleveland got Tyrod Taylor Cincy got Cordy Glenn, Billy Price Andrew Brown. Tampa's got Vita Vea and MJ Stewart Tenessee got Rashaan Evans Oakland got Brandon Parker KC also got Derrick Nnadi Baltimore got Lamar Jackson, Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews, Kenny Young, Jaleel Scott Philly got Dallas Goedert, Avonte Maddox Indy got Kemoko Turay. Jordon Wilkins We got also Ray Ray McCloud I think that's all of it but if not someone else can try lol Yeoman’s work there. Well done.
3rdand12 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Yeoman’s work there. Well done. Now if that could be successfully turned into a " Process " map we would really have something ! But no question about Jokeman on this one.
GunnerBill Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: They were always going to be picked in the first round. I don't know where your 3rd round grade comes from? Players with their level of arm talent and mobility are considered projects but they are still 1st round projects. Rudolph went in the third round because he was still considered a project but didn't have the arm talent or mobility that either Allen or Mahomes have. I think you undervalue the position itself with your grading. Teams are willing to take the risk to see if they can coach them up to that very high ceiling at the most important position in the game. My grade isn't about where I think they wil be picked. I know how the league works. My grades are entirely my take on what I see on their tape. 1
3rdand12 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: My grade isn't about where I think they wil be picked. I know how the league works. My grades are entirely my take on what I see on their tape. I was going to mention a bit about what you meant. Glad you were able to clarify ! amazing how QB need drive players up the board with such zeal. Because everyone wants one. Even the teams who have one look hard. Crazy helium balloons
The Jokeman Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 10 hours ago, K-9 said: Yeoman’s work there. Well done. I actually missed somethings... San Francisco got Jimmy G New England got Duke Dawson Christian Sam and a 3rd Round pick in 2019 Chicago got Anthony Miller Detroit got Kerryon Johnson Da'shawn Hand Tampa also got Carlton Davis and Jordan Whitehead Cleveland got Antonio Callaway
Doc Brown Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 If Mahomes pans out and Allen doesn't it's a horrible trade. Even if Tre White and Edmunds have HOF careers. 1
Zerovoltz Posted May 27, 2018 Author Posted May 27, 2018 Just for clarification...when I said the "book is closed"...yes, that means all the moves, picks etc have been executed...so now we know who got what and who went where. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 Hey ZeroVoltz, Hows about we see how Mahomes and some of these other guys play before we declare the books closed? Edit: OK, I see you meant something more limited than a common meaning of that phrase. On 4/27/2018 at 3:23 PM, OJABBA said: Tre hasn't really played? I think he meant Edmunds. Tremaine. But I think he goes by Maine, not Tre?
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